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Garou Revision

Pain_to12 said:
Two and also no one refuted his points
Click to expand...
Rather's response to my previous message did not refute anything I said and did not prove what he was trying to claim.

Frankly, there is no reason for me to continue arguing. He has failed to prove that the panels are out of order. Which for reasons I've mentioned, means this feat could not have taken any longer than thirty seconds.

He has yet to prove or even provide any sufficient evidence that the panels in this chapter aren't chronological. All he's done is state that the manga has been out of order before. And we have already explained why this specific scene is different from those ones.

Maybe his arguments will be more viable when the next chapter comes out.
 
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Phoenks said:
Maybe his arguments will be more viable when the next chapter comes out.
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True, who knows, maybe next chapter it took over an hour to perform this feat, but yeah, as of right now, several seconds is the time period.
 
Two people have refuted the argument so thats grounds for a discussion imo (current discussion wasn't even that long if you discount all the stonewalling that happened early on). Except if what Phoenks said is true about none of their points being refuted, then ig its fair to stop stalling and put it on the wiki.
 
Phoenks said:
Rather's response to my previous message did not refute anything I said and did not prove what he was trying to claim.

Frankly, there is no reason for me to continue arguing. He has failed to prove that the panels are out of order. Which for reasons I've mentioned, means this feat could not have taken any longer than thirty seconds.

He has yet to prove or even provide any sufficient evidence that the panels in this chapter aren't chronological. All he's done is state that the manga has been out of order before. And we have already explained why this specific scene is different from those ones.

Maybe his arguments will be more viable when the next chapter comes out.
Click to expand...
Well I will leave him to defend himself
What about this?
Pain_to12 said:
@Maverick_Zero_X
I really don't know about Iron man case and that has no basis in this thread, and it will fall under false equivalency as it was a different scenario to this
Garou charged up then hit tackled saitama and thrusted both of them into the earth, and we see the shockwaves move through the earth and the earth bulge on the other side, on the last panel in the scan i posted above, you will see an arrow pointing to and showing the start of the bulge as the shockwaves hit the other side of the earth.
what made the bulge was the shockwaves from Garou's attack not cause he was pushing the earth from the other side, if he was physically pushing it like the entire OP claim, their will be a dent of equal size to the bulge on the side Garou is pushing from. but we are not seeing that and we can only see that the shockwaves started the displacement from inside the earth.
Click to expand...
Why is Would the feat grant any LS when what caused the displacement was the shockwaves?
 
Phoenks said:
Rather's response to my previous message did not refute anything I said and did not prove what he was trying to claim.
Click to expand...
RatherClueless said:
it is straight up stated that it stopped and the last panel we see of the ppl on the plane also indicates this.
"It looks like some of the oceanic plates that had subducted into the earth via crustal movement. . . were pushed back out by some powerful force"
Click to expand...
One argument you haven't tackled yet
RatherClueless said:
So is the assumption that Garou wouldnt have broken through the other side of the planet after . . . literally less than a second. Unless you wanna say he drastically slowed down in which case the LS argument falls apart yet again.
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No one has actually bothered to debate on the size issue, which is far more blatant and way harder too dismiss.

Also, I think you miss the point about the chronology. My point is that "it is chronological unless stated otherwise" is not some kind of rule. At least not when it comes to two separate scenes, let alone if they are separated by a planets diameter. If there is tons of evidence making us assume that it must have taken longer, but that causes the chronology to get cucked, then our first assumption wouldn't or at least shouldn't be to throw all that evidence away. Chronology is not that good of a point as you think. You just make it out to be, demanding mountains of evidence for something that doesn't require them. Like I said, mangas do this all the time. If character A and X fight and we then cut to B and Y fighting before continuing where we left off with A and X, are you gonna assume A and X were just staring at each other this entire time? This is basically the same thing. Manga as a medium, is incapable of showing two events happening at the same. You are acting like the paneling contradicts my claim when it honestly doesn't. My entire point is that that assumption is silly by default. Not even talking about all the implications it would have.

Anyways, this brings me back to the fact that if the time frame is a clear fck up on the mangaka's side, what should be assumed is the best we actually get to see, rather than what we assume. This is exactly why the Grün calc isn't valid anymore yes it it still on the profiles, but thats just because everyone is too lazy to do anything about it. Yes, he moved that distance in that time, but the assumption wouldn't be that it's MHS, but that the animators darn goofed. Same here. If you wanna claim 5 seconds for the in between even though we have several instances clearly showing that can't be right, then that means Murata goofed and we should take the best quantifiable speed happening on panel, rather than the inbetween.

Phoenks said:
Frankly, there is no reason for me to continue arguing. He has failed to prove that the panels are out of order. Which for reasons I've mentioned, means this feat could not have taken any longer than thirty seconds.
Click to expand...
The absolute lowest is 30seconds. Mountain crumbling 1 sec, shockwaves 1 sec, The entire plane scene at least 10-15sec. The lifing scene 5 sec minimum. Lifting between panels absolute bare minimum 5 sec. The Post lifing panel 1 sec Blast discussion 10-15 sec making for a grand total of at least 30 - 40 sec and that is honestly being pretty generous.

Also, I just realized. The feat itself isn't paneled chronologically. When we see the mountain crumble there is already a very deep hole in the ground and at the speed Garou was going the crossectional panel should have absolutely happened before the mountain shattered. I mean, I could probably pixel sclae the surrounding mountains and just the visible part of the hole, showing tht that alone already has a similiar depth compared to the next panel.
 
Magmag said:
you're talking about the spherical cap? whats contradicted?
Click to expand...
The fact that it's blatantly not a spherical cap. The fact that he didn't move the entire volume but simply caused the plate itself to bulge.
 
RatherClueless said:
The fact that it's blatantly not a spherical cap. The fact that he didn't move the entire volume but simply caused the plate itself to bulge.
Click to expand...
That’s kinda how it works…He literally pushed so hard he screwed up the plates entirety and the entire gravitational field of earth. He forcefully did all this himself.
Edit: therefir made a calc without the shockwave conspiracies to better everyone’s stance.
 
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Magmag said:
That’s kinda how it works…He literally pushed so hard he screwed up the plates entirety and the entire gravitational field of earth. He forcefully did all this himself.
Click to expand...
There is literally a diagram with an explanation. Unless you gonna claim that both aren't canon, the current calc for the volume and weight is wrong.
 
RatherClueless said:
There is literally a diagram with an explanation. Unless you gonna claim that both aren't canon, the current calc for the volume and weight is wrong.
Click to expand...
You can take both calcs to a calc group discussion forum and let them decide which is better

Or everyone can wait till the next chapter doubt there will be anything new tho
But this thread is still young it’s barely 2days.
 
RatherClueless said:
There is literally a diagram with an explanation. Unless you gonna claim that both aren't canon, the current calc for the volume and weight is wrong.
Click to expand...
Yeah, he literally pushed the VOLUME, and that caused the plates to move. He still did all of this himself. The diagram supports that. Also this has nothing to do with AP but with the LS in which therefir made a calc to satisfy you.
 
Magmag said:
Yeah, he literally pushed the VOLUME, and that caused the plates to move. He still did all of this himself.
Click to expand...
No? He specifically only moved the plate. Not the magma beneath that filled the rest of the volume. We are talking about a difference in the hundreds. It also clearly has more of an elliptical shape. It even has little arrows showing the direction and what exactly he moved.

Magmag said:
Also this has nothing to do with AP but with the LS in which therefir made a calc to satisfy you.
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If he made that calc specifically for me it was wasted effort. My issue was never the shockwaves (although that did add to it), but that it was the equivalency of giving LS for running down a door. It is only LS if it didn't come from the energy of the impact, which isn't something that can be proven, so it can't be used.
 
RatherClueless said:
No? He specifically only moved the plate. Not the magma beneath that filled the rest of the volume. We are talking about a difference in the hundreds. It also clearly has more of an elliptical shape. It even has little arrows showing the direction and what exactly he moved.


If he made that calc specifically for me it was wasted effort. My issue was never the shockwaves (although that did add to it), but that it was the equivalency of giving LS for running down a door. It is only LS if it didn't come from the energy of the impact, which isn't something that can be proven, so it can't be used.
Click to expand...
So how did he move the plate on the opposite side of the earth and cause a bulge. Garou got esper powers now😱😱😱…he moved all the volume inside the earth and it pushed the plates up and outward. Like Idek what argument you’re trying to make cuz it just doesn’t have logic behind it.

Bruh…what r u even talking about. Well it doesn’t ever matter cuz he did do it via pushing and it instantly lost its AP only variable once he slammed into the mountain.
 
Magmag said:
So how did he move the plate on the opposite side of the earth and cause a bulge. Garou got esper powers now
Click to expand...
What are you even on about? I am not disputing the force that moved it but how it was moved and what was moved. We have a diagram specifically highlight direction and what was moved. That isn't what was used in the calc.
Magmag said:
Well it doesn’t ever matter cuz he did do it via pushing and it instantly lost its AP
Click to expand...
The initial hole we see him make is very specifically still part of his impact, as it is still labled by his attack. So, please prove he lost all AP, because, you know, Occams razor.

Assuming everything is part of the impact when we don't even see him continuing to push Saitama until several pages later is a lot simpler than "he lost all AP the moment he smashed into the mountain because I say so and then he continued pushing because I say so, making it two feats"
 
it is straight up stated that it stopped and the last panel we see of the ppl on the plane also indicates this. "It looks like some of the oceanic plates that had subducted into the earth via crustal movement. . . were pushed back out by some powerful force"
Click to expand...

One instance of past-tense doesn't mean that it stopped. Blast previously used "Bulging" in present-tense and later says "He's going to break through the dimensional seal," inferring that it is still going.

Afterwards, we cut back to Garou, who is still pushing Saitama into the Earth. Meaning it is very likely he was still affecting the other side of the planet.

So is the assumption that Garou wouldnt have broken through the other side of the planet after . . . literally less than a second.
Click to expand...

This is just a physics issue, which OPM has quite a lot of.

The absolute lowest is 30seconds. Mountain crumbling 1 sec, shockwaves 1 sec, The entire plane scene at least 10-15sec. The lifing scene 5 sec minimum. Lifting between panels absolute bare minimum 5 sec. The Post lifing panel 1 sec Blast discussion 10-15 sec making for a grand total of at least 30 - 40 sec and that is honestly being pretty generous.
Click to expand...

I can agree to 30 seconds.
 
I'm cool with recalculating the weight moved. But like I said, I'm against using the diagram to measure it since that's just a representation of what's happening and not to scale
 
Y’all do know that Garou’s profile is locked, right? We can’t apply the changes until it’s unlocked.
 
vsbattles.fandom.com

Garou

Garou (ガロウ, Garō) is a former disciple of Bang and was considered a prodigy. But one day, he was kicked out from his dojo for going on a rampage once he got bored with everyone. He's one of the strongest characters in the series and plays a major role as the main villain in the Hero Hunt arc...
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