About the New Style for profiles

[TheRustyOne]

People that worked for several months to create a good profile with a good design (the old one) being forced to change to something awful just because some people wants it to?

You know I can easily throw that back at you right?

There are profiles created with the new style and people who put a lot of work into it. Now being forced to change it because people want it to.

Not trying to insult or start anything, but such logic goes both ways.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Just want to add that the inclusion of tabbers to separate keys in powers and abilities did not fully abolish the use of dividers. It was entirely common sense when to use it. You use tabbers if there is a wall of text; you use the divider if there's just one new ability.

I feel like that should also be applied here maybe? 3 abilities do not warrant an ordered list.

 

[Bernkastelll]

There are profiles created with the new style and people who put a lot of work into it. Now being forced to change it because people want it to.

When did I said that they should change it? I'm saying that the ones who made profiles with the old style and prefer it shouldnt be forced to change

 

[TheRustyOne]

When did I said that they should change it? I'm saying that the ones who made profiles with the old style and prefer it shouldnt be forced to change

That isn't what I meant either, I was talking in general. Since using CRT to change it can go the other direction as well, basically no winning in that scenario since people will always be displeased. Your direction of the statement made it seem like it only effects the people who use the old style. Since you pointed out the old style.

In the end we can't please everyone.

 

[Armorchompy]

I do not wish to insult you in any way. I was merely making an explanatory observation that some resistance to change is a pattern that is expected.

I don't see how this matters.

 

[Bernkastelll]

I do not wish to insult you in any way. I was merely making an explanatory observation that some resistance to change is a pattern that is expected.

Imagine thinking that ''new things'' are good because they are ''new'' lol

fandom ****** up the design of their website, literally no single soul liked it, but hey. it's a new design, so, it's good, right? Same applies to this new style of profiles, they are awful and forcing people to change it is very bad

 

[TheRustyOne]

Imagine thinking that ''new things'' are good because they are ''new'' lol

fandom ****** up the design of their website, literally no single soul liked it, but hey. it's a new design, so, it's good, right?

Any reason to say that here? Please I don't want anyone to stir up any trouble because of opinions.

Also I do know people who actually like the new changes of the fandom website. I actually like it, at first I didn't but I got use to it.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Any reason to say that here?

Yes

 

[FinePoint]

I don't see how this matters.

It matters because I don't think the wiki should cave on a positive change just because there's some predictable initial backlash. An organized list is easier to process for most people.

Imagine thinking that ''new things'' are good because they are ''new'' lol

fandom ****** up the design of their website, literally no single soul liked it, but hey. it's a new design, so, it's good, right? Same applies to this new style of profiles, they are awful and forcing people to change it is very bad

Strawman. I didn't say that new things are inherently good. I also hated the Fandom redesign.

 

[Damage3245]

Let's stay off the Fandom redesign topic.

 

[Vietthai96]

I'm fine with the new style, however it should not be a mandatory, user are free to organize their profile they want, we just need some basic guideline and also, like Damage and me said before, no 4 layers of tabber

 

[Chariot190]

Ngl, this looks to be a case by case, I've seen profiles look drastically better, and I've seen some become kinda ass when before it wasn't that bad.

I think this might be one of those times where ya, just like, use your basic human thinking ability and see what looks better in a particular case instead of going "it has to this way or that way, no inbetween".

 

[FinePoint]

Anyways, yeah, despite my personal preference I support the non-mandatory compromise and some stricter guidelines on not making the page into a choose-your-own-adventure book with sub-sub-sub-tabbers.

 

[Damage3245]

Ngl, this looks to be a case by case, I've seen profiles look drastically better, and I've seen some become kinda ass when before it wasn't that bad.

I think this might be one of those times where ya, just like, use your basic human thinking ability and see what looks better in a particular case instead of going "it has to this way or that way, no inbetween".

Anyways, yeah, despite my personal preference I support the non-mandatory compromise and some stricter guidelines on not making the page into a choose-your-own-adventure book with sub-sub-sub-tabbers.

Agreed. We can't make everyone happy, but we can give them the choice.

 

[KLOL506]

Pretty sure bullet points were not supposed to be made mandatory, but an optional thing.

 

[Zaratthustra]

I'm not a fan of the new format but some profiles do look better with it while some less (usually these that don't explain the powers they have..all you'll see will be several powers listed with no explanation while a few have it).

Like it was decided first when we talked about it - its not mandatory, its something the supporters of the verse can change through a CRT so there won't be a war between sides more than its necessary. Profiles can use the old format, the new one, a combination between them (ex: just bolding the powers). Also, recommended to not link the entire explanation but just key things.

 

[Damage3245]

I'm not a fan of the new format but some profiles do look better with it while some less (usually these that don't explain the powers they have..all you'll see will be several powers listed with no explanation while a few have it).

That's one of the side benefits of this format, is that identifies lazy lists of abilities with no justifications next to them.

Like it was decided first when we talked about it - its not mandatory, its something the supporters of the verse can change through a CRT so there won't be a war between sides more than its necessary. Profiles can use the old format, the new one, a combination between them (ex: just bolding the powers). Also, recommended to not link the entire explanation but just key things.

Agreed.

 

[Armorchompy]

It matters because I don't think the wiki should cave on a positive change just because there's some predictable initial backlash. An organized list is easier to process for most people.

Again, that would require proving that the backlash is just people not being used to it instead of people disliking it because of its actual flaws, which is impossible.

Regardless, I guess there isn't really a conclusion to be gotten to here so

 

[Damage3245]

Again, that would require proving that the backlash is just people not being used to it instead of people disliking it because of its actual flaws, which is impossible.

Regardless, I guess there isn't really a conclusion to be gotten to here so

You may be right. At the very least when I first proposed the change for Garou's page, there was pretty unanimous positive reception for it. I know that not everybody on the wiki will enjoy it, but I'd say that in my experience far more people have been receptive to the new style when it is done right.

Maybe John Cena's page doesn't need it. I don't have a strong opinion on Cena's profile. But for most other profiles, there is a real advantage to having this change.

 

[Armorchompy]

You may be right. At the very least when I first proposed the change for Garou's page, there was pretty unanimous positive reception for it. I know that not everybody on the wiki will enjoy it, but I'd say that in my experience far more people have been receptive to the new style when it is done right.

Maybe John Cena's page doesn't need it. I don't have a strong opinion on Cena's profile. But for most other profiles, there is a real advantage to having this change.

Again, I think there's a sweetspot, and for those profiles it fits quite well, like Garou. I guess it's ultimately inoffensive in Cena's? It's just a little weird.

 

[FinePoint]

Again, that would require proving that the backlash is just people not being used to it instead of people disliking it because of its actual flaws, which is impossible.

Well, according to you all the benefits are purely subjective, which would naturally make the flaws purely subjective too.

Though if you're willing to accept that there's real positives and negatives, then perhaps you can understand why I belive the pros outweigh the cons, which was my actual substantive argument.

I think the additional clarity and ease of access this provides to most people is simply more important than it taking up more space.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

That's one of the side benefits of this format, is that identifies lazy lists of abilities with no justifications next to them.

If this is one of the reasons for the new format I think it's a terrible reason. I don't need to justify why a fish has Underwater Breathing.

This still doesn't solve the problem of laziness, and it adds dead space to boot.

 

[Armorchompy]

Well, according to you all the benefits are purely subjective, which would naturally make the flaws purely subjective too.

I mean... yeah? That still doesn't weigh the argument in any direction.

Though if you're willing to accept that there's real positives and negatives, then perhaps you can understand why I belive the pros outweigh the cons, which was my actual substantive argument.

I understand, and disagree, at least regarding more cases.

I think the additional clarity and ease of access this provides to most people is simply more important than it taking up more space.

Yeah, and I think it's generally harder to read and even tiring on the eyes.

Honestly, I think this issue is just born of the wiki having blue links a blue background, why the **** is that a thing anyway

 

[Damage3245]

Let's boil down Power & Abilities sections to having a few overall elements:

1) Links (Mandatory: Abilities should be linked to their respective pages on the wiki)

2) Justifications (Mandatory: Abilities should have a short justifications with necessary links, unless the ability is extremely self-evident and requires no explanation such as Superhuman Physical Characteristics)

3) Tabbers (Optional: If an ability list becomes too extensive, the abilities can be separated into different tabs. Recommended that this be done along the lines of character's keys or different forms)

4) Bolding (Optional: Abilities can be bolded to help distinguish them from the rest of the text.)

5) Scrollboxes (Optional: Abilities sections that are so long that they take up a huge portion of the page should be fitted into scrollboxes so the user can scroll more easily. Do not use scrollboxes for short to medium lists of abilities)

6) Bullet Points (Optional: Abilities can be listed in paragraph format but for more than just a few abilities it is recommended that the abilities be displayed in a list which displays the abilities in an organized fashion.)

How does this sound for a start?

 

[Armorchompy]

6) Bullet Points (Optional: Abilities can be listed in paragraph format but for more than just a few abilities it is recommended that the abilities be displayed in a list which displays the abilities in an organized fashion.)

How does this sound for a start?

I disagree with it being recommended especially for long amounts of abilities, some profiles get to a point where it would just look ridicolous

 

[Damage3245]

I disagree with it being recommended especially for long amounts of abilities, some profiles get to a point where it would just look ridicolous

I'm being honest, that profile is already plenty ridiculous already.

That would take more than just bullet points to fix that.

 

[FinePoint]

Honestly, I think this issue is just born of the wiki having blue links a blue background, why the **** is that a thing anyway

Honestly, that might be worth exploring. What's a page that uses the old format that you like?

I could edit in some different backgrounds to see if it's a color issue now that you've made me curious.

 

[Armorchompy]

I'm being honest, that profile is already plenty ridiculous already.

That would take more than just bullet points to fix that.

I don't think it can be "fixed", it's just a pretty extreme profile.

But it would look way worse if spread out more.

Clearly the way to fix it would be having a NA&T for all items and trinkets, according to my calculations that'd be a roughly 200k byte page

 

[Armorchompy]

Honestly, that might be worth exploring. What's a page that uses the old format that you like?

I could edit in some different backgrounds to see if it's a color issue now that you've made me curious.

Hmm, Isaac is a pretty extreme example so maybe that'd work as a test. John Constantine is also pretty big and has references. I'm kinda curious to see how that'd look too.

 

[FinePoint]

Hmm, Isaac is a pretty extreme example so maybe that'd work as a test. John Constantine is also pretty big and has references. I'm kinda curious to see how that'd look too.

Okay. I'll do that as soon as I'm home.

 

[Zaratthustra]

Hmm, Isaac is a pretty extreme example so maybe that'd work as a test. John Constantine is also pretty big and has references. I'm kinda curious to see how that'd look too.

A profile pretty big and will only get bigger as Planck adds more key its Ji Ning If you're curious how a profile with more abilities and references looks like in the new format.

 

[Armorchompy]

No, that's referring to a possible different colored background

 

[Vietthai96]

A profile pretty big and will only get bigger as Planck adds more key its Ji Ning If you're curious how a profile with more abilities and references looks like in the new format.

Still, i view the profile using phone, and......it is long, really long.....=.=

 

[FinePoint]

Everything is terrible on mobile.

 

[FinePoint]

https://media.**********.net/attachments/929905166881271829/963415227288936478/unknown.jpeg
Like, c'mon. There's no making this a good experience.

 

[Zaratthustra]

Thats why I use desktop version even while on phone.

 

[FinePoint]

Red
Green
Yellow
Discord
Pure White
(Ignore the chaos outside the textbox)

 

[Armorchompy]

Some are kinda ugly but I'd definitely say some are an improvement, though I admit it does lose some style

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

https://media.**********.net/attachments/929905166881271829/963415227288936478/unknown.jpeg
Like, c'mon. There's no making this a good experience.

Honestly that seems like a cheap way of using a loophole to force ads on super supporters.

Either way like others have mentioned above it should indeed be a case by case system moreso for characters that have universal power systems and/or physiology pages (That does help cut down the clutter on character pages).