Pokémon Intelligence: Gotta stupefy 'em all

[Arceus0x]

Average: Characters of average intelligence. While they have more developed intelligence in certain subjects, in many cases, their overall intelligence remains average.

Above Average: Characters that show greater cognitive ability than the norm, but do not particularly stand out in any intellectual or academic fields.

Where is it stated again? Because i see nothing about it

 

[theultimate5105]

I would say Below Average-Above Average for most pokemon is fair with some being higher or lower

 

[FinePoint]

Average: Characters of average intelligence. While they have more developed intelligence in certain subjects, in many cases, their overall intelligence remains average.

Above Average: Characters that show greater cognitive ability than the norm, but do not particularly stand out in any intellectual or academic fields.

Where is it stated again? Because i see nothing about it

Well, you cut out the one part I actually mentioned.

Animalistic: Beings, such as animals, that only possess basic reasoning, awareness, and problem-solving skills. While various animals, such as chimpanzees, may possess higher capacities for such things, their intelligence would still remain animalistic.

This means even the smartest animals are included in animalistic.
The only progression after animals is humans. Your interpretation cuts out Below Average entirely.
Below Average people can still speak.

 

[Arceus0x]

I wouldn't say MD is consistent with the rest of the franchise.
There the Pokémon could create their own civilization, culture, society etc... unlike most other media that portray them as smart animals, but still somewhat instinctive.

Bruh they literally talk. The only animal that we know talked with reason was this one gorilla that learned a few signs.

 

[Arceus0x]

Animalistic: Beings, such as animals, that only possess basic reasoning, awareness, and problem-solving skills. While various animals, such as chimpanzees, may possess higher capacities for such things, their intelligence would still remain animalistic.

Below Average: Characters of below average intellects and unremarkable skills.

 

[FinePoint]

Animalistic: Beings, such as animals, that only possess basic reasoning, awareness, and problem-solving skills. While various animals, such as chimpanzees, may possess higher capacities for such things, their intelligence would still remain animalistic.

Below Average: Characters of below average intellects and unremarkable skills.

Yes. This highlights my point exactly.
People of below average intellect and unremarkable skills can still talk.
Not being smart enough to talk puts you in Animalistic. The step up from that is Below Average, not Average.

I don't see where I'm losing you.

 

[SamanPatou]

I mean, I know they "talk", but in the games they still live in the wild, are prone to act on instinct and as animals or pets and stuff, even if they understand human speech.
If they were the same as their MD/Pokèpark counterparts, they would have built houses, villages etc..., they are blatantly different.

An "average" person includes people who have graduated high school.

I wouldn't use school as a way to mark someone's intelligence, tbh, there's plenty of people who got nothing from it, and others who rose to success without it.

 

[Arceus0x]

Yes. This highlights my point exactly.
People of below average intellect and unremarkable skills can still talk.
Not being smart enough to talk puts you in Animalistic. The step up from that is Below Average, not Average.

I don't see where I'm losing you.

I guess I'll agree then, below average to above average range with exceptions.

 

[Arceus0x]

So how do we begin deciphering which is which? I assume we'll just go through case by case.

Also i recommend splitting off their intelligence in life and in combat.
As an example, Machamp could be average with combat Genius attached to it due to knowing all martial arts

 

[FinePoint]

So how do we begin deciphering which is which? I assume we'll just go through case by case.

Also i recommend splitting off their intelligence in life and in combat.
As an example, Machamp could be average with combat Genius attached to it due to knowing all martial arts

Yes.
They should all have some degree of fighting skill since they're hardwired for it.

I think we should give Below Average to the typical Pokémon, and then single out those with feats which put them higher.
For example: Alakazam, Metagross, Mewtwo. (A lot of psychic types probably)

 

[Arceus0x]

Mewtwo should straight up be Extraordinary genius tbh i mean i already said what i had to say

 

[Arceus0x]

Extraordinary Genius: Individuals whose knowledge spreads over many fields of science and who vastly surpass the intellects of the smartest humans on Earth. At this level, many are capable of creating futuristic technology, executing complex strategies even under high pressure, and potentially even accurately predicting the future through sheer mental calculations, or outperforming supercomputers. This is where super scientists of exceptional scientific knowledge begin to appear.

Genius: Individuals with an exceptional capacity for knowledge and intelligence, generally in one area of varying depth, often possessed by fictional scientists and strategists. This level of intelligence is the level of actual geniuses and famous intellectuals in the real world and, in lieu of better feats, should be the default intelligence category for fictional characters treated as if they have exceptional or superhuman intelligence.

 

[Arceus0x]

Mewtwo outperformed a team of scientists who made a huge scientific breakthrough (they figured out how to make life, divide body and consciousness, create a superweapon out of a pokemon with complex genes)

 

[FinePoint]

Well, for the typical Pokémon I think it should be something like this:

Below Average (Can speak coherently with other Pokémon and show some understanding of social situations but are still mostly driven by instinct.)

 

[Arceus0x]

This basically fits quite well with his overall theme so yeah, he should be straight up EG

 

[Arceus0x]

Well, for the typical Pokémon I think it should be something like this:

Below Average (Can speak coherently with other Pokémon and show some understanding of social situations but are still mostly driven by instinct.)

I guess it could be good as a minimum.
Though i think it would be mostly good as a baseline for non fully evolved pokemon as we'd have to figure out every final evolution by ourselves due to their extraordinary nature.

Anyways could you call @Imaginym here? They are quite knowledgeable

 

[FinePoint]

Extraordinary Genius: Individuals whose knowledge spreads over many fields of science and who vastly surpass the intellects of the smartest humans on Earth. At this level, many are capable of creating futuristic technology, executing complex strategies even under high pressure, and potentially even accurately predicting the future through sheer mental calculations, or outperforming supercomputers. This is where super scientists of exceptional scientific knowledge begin to appear.

I think Mewtwo fits Extraordinary Genius, via upscaling from the Pokémon scientists which can create futuristic inventions (many examples).

 

[FinePoint]

I guess it could be good as a minimum.
Though i think it would be mostly good as a baseline for non fully evolved pokemon as we'd have to figure out every final evolution by ourselves due to their extraordinary nature.

Anyways could you call @Imaginym here? They are quite knowledgeable

Sure. I messaged him.
And yeah, it should apply to all of the Pokémon who have no solid intelligence feats.
Likewise though, certain Pokémon are even stupider than others. Should look into that too.

 

[Arceus0x]

I think Mewtwo fits Extraordinary Genius, via upscaling from the Pokémon scientists which can create futuristic inventions (many examples).

I mean Colress is literally listed in the page as an example of "genius" and what did he do? A few minor machines to control some pokemon and a dna splicer or two. Meanwhile Mewtwo is here surpassing an entire team of scientists and recreating and updating a complex mechanical castle

 

[XXKINGXX69]

I think its pretty clear they can vary. We also use highest IVs, EVs, and the most powerful variation of a pokemon species, so we can still use MD stuff. Or we can do something like Magikarp's profile and add a "varies" for the intelligence

 

[Armorchompy]

A good example of a stupid pokemon would be uh, Rypherior's first stage, idr the name

 

[Chariot190]

Lol

Regardless most Pokémon should be below average to above average, generally case-by-case, I think Mewtwo would probably be just Genius though, not extoirdinary genius unless it's got some feats of outsmrting say Metagross that I don't know

Arceus already mentioned this but I feel the need too as well because I wanna stress this and because I kinda like Mewtwo.
Mewtwo is ******* stupid as shit, anime Mewtwo for example, built a super high tech cloning facility in the middle of ******* nowhere with nothing but scorched debris, with absolutely **** all to go on for the most part as he spent his whole life to that point doing nothing but acting as a tool, and had it built and operating at extreme efficiency in what? A few weeks at most?
And that ain't even a Pokemon is a sci-fi verse thing. Note, it took Fuji, literal years and years with an obsessive amount of dedication due to trying to bring back his deceased daughter (to the point that's all he did, his wife even left him over it as he would do nothing but work towards cloning) with insane amount of funding from Giovanni and support in other scientists to figure out how to clone, and literally all his clones were **** ups and died except Mewtwo, and Mewtwo is just like "aight" and perfects it in like a week, he even automates it. Also casually makes what I assume to be Master Ball tier pokeballs en masse, that can capture not only Pokemon, but even the Pokeballs they're contained in.

A good example of a stupid pokemon would be uh, Rypherior's first stage, idr the name

Rhyhorn, to stupid to even feel pain, actual Slowpoke tier. Except it doesn't even have that gimmick as an excuse, it's just dumb.

 

[Armorchompy]

Rhyhorn, to stupid to even feel pain, actual Slowpoke tier. Except it doesn't even have that gimmick as an excuse, it's just dumb.

wait **** i got it mixed up with Rhydon and I can't do the stupid joke

uhhhhh Slugma balls

 

[Chariot190]

Rhyhorn dis dick got em

 

[Armorchompy]

 

[XXKINGXX69]

A good example of a stupid pokemon would be uh, Rypherior's first stage, idr the name

Funny you say that

 

[Shmooply]

ok thats enough derailment

 

[Imaginym]

I was requested to comment here.
I'm happy to help, but I'm not exactly sure what my input is needed on.

As mentioned, Pokemon, especially in the anime, do often seem to mutually understand one another, even when they're different species & may have had little to no experience encountering Pokemon of the species they're communicating with.

Ergo, Pokemon not understanding human languages is the exception, since they either all share 1 language -Dubious, given how enforced them saying their own names is- or they have different languages, yet many often understand Pokemon without difficulty.

Team Rocket's Meowth did learn human languages with prolonged effort. IDK if this means anything else for his species; What if other Meowth could learn human languages just as he did? Does that improve how we rate their Intelligence?
& as mentioned, he's exceptionally intelligent for consistently providing many of the Team Rocket Trio's plans, many of which involve building fantastic technology.

& of course, there's that Pokemon readily understand commands from humans, even if they've never been told the name of that move before, never heard the name of it... but this could just be plot necessity, or maybe some kinda "magical mutual understanding" facilitated by a bond between Pokemon & humans/trainers, as such bonds are a prevalent theme in Pokemon.
Still, I think there's also been instances where wild Pokemon that are practically strangers understand what humans ask of them with little to no context, so they somehow do understand language strings they should have no linguistic frame of reference for understanding.
To put it another way, if you ask a Mantyke to push a rock, & it does, why does the Mantyke know human words like "push" & "rock", especially if it's never met or heard a human before?


In terms of Intelligence feats.... Well, there's Clefairy which could build a spaceship, but that could be attributed to Gen 1 Anime weirdness, were it not for it coming up in the Sinnoh Anime, too, I think?
There's probably several intelligence feats in the Pokedex. Lapras, Dragonite, & Mew are just a few examples off of the top of my head of Pokemon noted for being intelligent.

Are we looking for?:
A. Feats of Intelligence, be they on-screen or in statements? ("X did Y" & such.)
B. Statements about how Intelligent a Pokemon is? ("X is smart"/"X is unintelligent".)

What is our goal & what is more important to it right now?


That said, beyond Pokedex knowledge, scattered bits of anime knowledge (I've watched a lot of the anime, but I don't remember it well, much less many feats.), my knowledge is a little lacking. There may also be text dumps of some of the games online that could be useful.
It might be easiest to determine some species to focus on, since Bulbapedia listing & describing Pokemon by their notable appearances on their pages, as well as providing detailed episode summaries & links to galleries makes seeking out information by species a little easier.

 

[Arceus0x]

imma try and list some stuff i can find here.

Also i'd like to say that i believe that whether or not the pokemon is trained should not affect the rating as unless the pokemon spends ages in school or sth or is shown to be extraordinary, they shouldn't be much smarter than their non-trained counterparts

 

[XXKINGXX69]

imma try and list some stuff i can find here.

Also i'd like to say that i believe that whether or not the pokemon is trained should not affect the rating as unless the pokemon spends ages in school or sth or is shown to be extraordinary, they shouldn't be much smarter than their non-trained counterparts

Nah, Pokemon gain more understanding and skill as they fight

 

[Arceus0x]

Nah, Pokemon gain more understanding and skill as they fight

understanding? no. unless you can provide evidence for pokemon getting trained to become specifically smarter this won't be a thing as trainers only train pokemon in minor strategies and combat, not understanding. Skill? yeah. However there are basically no skills that are superior to what is stated in the pokedex entries so it doesn't really matter either way.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Skill? yeah. However there are basically no skills that are superior to what is stated in the pokedex entries so it doesn't really matter either way.

What? How is this relevant, a pokemon can simply gain more skill by fighting

 

[Arceus0x]

What? How is this relevant, a pokemon can simply gain more skill by fighting

yeah but it's unqantifiable by how much a pokemon is more skilled so it doesn't matter, only the dex entries matter.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

yeah but it's unqantifiable by how much a pokemon is more skilled so it doesn't matter, only the dex entries matter.

Its unquantifiable how much a wild Pokemon would scale to a trained one in intelligence

 

[Arceus0x]

Its unquantifiable how much a wild Pokemon would scale to a trained one in intelligence

in skill, not intelligence. Intelligence and skill are two different things and though they are rated under the same "intelligence" category they are still different.

 

[Armorchompy]

They are somewhat tied but with Pokèmon a lot of it is instincts, even if learned ones, so I wouldn't use it as my main thesis.

 

[Imaginym]

In theory, training can have an impact on Intelligence/Skill.
One could argue, for example, that Ash's technique, the "counter-shield" (As much as I hate it.) is something that I'd assume requires an increase in skill to utilize.
There's probably a number of statements about skill/intelligence, although many probably apply more to the trainers, rather than the Pokemon, in the anime & the games.
May be worth documenting instances of training seeming to have a distinguishable effect on Skill/Intelligence.

 

[Shmooply]

bump

 

[Shmooply]

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[Shmooply]

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