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High 6-C No-Holds Barred Tournament: Nagash vs Thor
- Thread starter Naito-desu
- Start date
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Nagash scales to 2.1541595458032E+21 J while Thor scales to 1.0353007e+21 J, so Nagash has a 2.08070905951x AP advantage
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Does Thor have a way to deal with Nagash's plethora of passives with an absurdly high range?
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Considering the profile has a total of 8 abilities, only one of which being a resistance that knocks the user out if it's used.... I'm gonna go ahead and say no
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Unless the range is planetary the Almighty Thor spell deals with it.
What are the details on the passives anyway? The range feat linked on the profile is for an active feat. Does he have them always activated (or at least more than 50% of his lifetime)?
And what do they do exactly? I don't just mean which abilities they are, but which specific effect is caused with those abilities.
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Okay, genuine question since I don't know the answer. Nagash has passive power null, what happens if two passives basically go against each other like that?
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I highly doubt that his powernull can interact with non existent/abstract energy of his magic that is Aethyr. The range feat on his profile is for his shadow that inflicts his passives that can cover an entire country
.
His passives inflict passive Fear Manip, Life Manip (this works pretty slowly unless you are close to him), Mind hax (the pressure of his shadow makes it impossible to think properly), He has passive frost hax (that is honestly potentially higher dimensional however thats speculative and it has a lower range then his shadow) but his presence/gaze freezes peoples hearts solid with the cold directly from the Grey Vaults of Morr that exist in the higher dimensional Realm of Chaos. If he wants too he can make his shadow inflict Death Hax as well however he generally doesn't do this unless he is in a hurry to finish things off.
Passive conceptual powernull/energy absorption that works on type 2 NEP/AE via his crown as well
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Honestly debating fantasy characters is kinda boring cause they are just stupidly broken
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Is it passive powernull that works over 4km range against magic that can move planets?
Thor has no powernull... never said anything about Thor power nulling him.
Is the shadow itself passive then? Also, the quote only talks about inflicting some degree of fear, which would probably not awfully matter here since Almighty Thor would still move him outside of the shadows range. And that is assuming the fear is strong enough to paralyize everyone in that area, which it doesn't really sound like. It sounds more like... greatly intimidating some normal humans.
How strong? What happens to those struck by his passive fear manip from several kilometers distance away?
Thor won't ever be closer than like 2km, so probably doesn't matter then.
Define "think properly", please. Does it just disrupt concentration or something more severe?
Well then let's speculation remain speculation, I guess.
Alright, but that can be dodged by avoiding his gaze. Also is the freezing literal or metaphorical? "Freezing someones heart solid" sounds like a metaphor for making them cold hearted...
Could be dodged as long as the shadow doesn't cover the planet. A yeah for automatic pseudo-teleportation.
What does conceptual powernull mean here? Power null that works on concept stuff or power null that works via concept manipulation? Huge difference.
That might be the most tricky thing to deal with. What's the range?
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Also I could be wrong but does Thor only have High 8-C durability in this key?
No he is literally freezing your heart solid with his stare.
His Mind manip just makes it really hard to concentrate in his presence
His Crown's powernull is like a barrier around him that absorbs the Aethyr of peoples abilities which is essentially the concept their ability represents so if your ability is fire based it is literally absorbing the possibility/concept of fire itself.
No he is literally freezing your heart solid with his stare.
His Mind manip just makes it really hard to concentrate in his presence
His Crown's powernull is like a barrier around him that absorbs the Aethyr of peoples abilities which is essentially the concept their ability represents so if your ability is fire based it is literally absorbing the possibility/concept of fire itself.
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- Thread starter
- #11
To use magic in Warhammer is to manipulate Aethyr. Manipulating Aethyr is essentially just playing with unstable causality and inserting a concept into it to create whatever you want into existence. Nagash's helmet basically does the reverse, where he nullifies the concept of your attack, and then transforms it back into pure Aethyr to absorb.
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Yes, but the Almighty Thor spell makes that all of irrelevant, since he can't be hit by normal means.
Not sure if the quote shows that well, but ok.
Alright, that would not bother Thor much then.
Interesting. But it only works on magic and has non-universal range, yes?
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- Thread starter
- #13
Warhammer "magic" is what I mentioned to be just warping reality to create your attack, so ideally, basically any attack thrown at you gets nullified into Aethyr for him to absorb, this should ideally work with all supernatural attacks except close physical combat. Only about 1-3km range but still
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Ah, so physical attacks like throwing a stone at him would work then, yes?
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Technically yes, though he can also just deflect physical attacks with magic and such
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Alright, so I think Thor wins based on a technicality.
You see, the Almighty Thor spell moves the world around Thor so that he always is in whichever position he will win in. Thor stands still, the world moves.
Now, moving the world at high speed would obviously be far above Thor's listed AP tier (moving Earth at as high speed as he does is 5-A or higher, I think). The reason he doesn't have higher AP than he is listed with is that the technique under normal circumstances can't hurt anyone. Thor moves the entire world and moves everything else the same distance in the same direction so that the position of anyone relative to the world always stays the same.
It is basically just a very complicated way for Thor to pseudo-teleport himself.
However, Nagash's powernull creates an exception here. Almighty Thor still moves the world, Nagash's powernull doesn't have the range/AoE to negate something on this scale everywhere, but within the 1 to 3km of the powernull Thor can't move the things on the world. So anything that isn't extremely firmly connected to the planet, like Nagash himself, will stay in place while the planet moves.
And what happens when you stand still and the planet moves? Well, you basically get a planet in the face. And since the planet itself isn't supernatural, powernulling the parts in range does nothing.
So Nagash gets taken out by a (approximately) 5-A attack that would be impossible if it weren't for his own powernull. And should he somehow survive it he would still get launched far off into space...
You see, the Almighty Thor spell moves the world around Thor so that he always is in whichever position he will win in. Thor stands still, the world moves.
Now, moving the world at high speed would obviously be far above Thor's listed AP tier (moving Earth at as high speed as he does is 5-A or higher, I think). The reason he doesn't have higher AP than he is listed with is that the technique under normal circumstances can't hurt anyone. Thor moves the entire world and moves everything else the same distance in the same direction so that the position of anyone relative to the world always stays the same.
It is basically just a very complicated way for Thor to pseudo-teleport himself.
However, Nagash's powernull creates an exception here. Almighty Thor still moves the world, Nagash's powernull doesn't have the range/AoE to negate something on this scale everywhere, but within the 1 to 3km of the powernull Thor can't move the things on the world. So anything that isn't extremely firmly connected to the planet, like Nagash himself, will stay in place while the planet moves.
And what happens when you stand still and the planet moves? Well, you basically get a planet in the face. And since the planet itself isn't supernatural, powernulling the parts in range does nothing.
So Nagash gets taken out by a (approximately) 5-A attack that would be impossible if it weren't for his own powernull. And should he somehow survive it he would still get launched far off into space...
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Nagash can teleport long distances, and has strong precog to anticipate it, so he can still teleport out of the range of whatever happens. And I still don't get how Thor's range is indicated as 2km if his ability has this kind of planetary range.
Plus I don't think Soma's explanation is likely accurate because Nagash's own Crown of Sorcery does actually nullify incoming totally normal projectiles that are only launched with the aid of magic rather than just totally magic things, this ranges from paltry things like icicles to giant meteors.
What's more likely to happen is that the planet moves and Nagash gets stuck in the 3km chunk he's standing in because any incoming projectiles lose their energy when entering his vicinity. Assuming the above did happen though, Nagash could foresee it happen and just open a portal to the Realm of Chaos and chill there before coming back stealthily to take down Thor. In truth, he could also just summon intangible ghosts to chase down Thor while he sat back somewhere safe.
Plus I don't think Soma's explanation is likely accurate because Nagash's own Crown of Sorcery does actually nullify incoming totally normal projectiles that are only launched with the aid of magic rather than just totally magic things, this ranges from paltry things like icicles to giant meteors.
What's more likely to happen is that the planet moves and Nagash gets stuck in the 3km chunk he's standing in because any incoming projectiles lose their energy when entering his vicinity. Assuming the above did happen though, Nagash could foresee it happen and just open a portal to the Realm of Chaos and chill there before coming back stealthily to take down Thor. In truth, he could also just summon intangible ghosts to chase down Thor while he sat back somewhere safe.
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I mean, the distance between Thor and the planet is not really large when he is standing on the ground. Question is whether moving an object 3 meter away from you but 12000km in size is 3 meter range or 12000km range... tricky question, now that I think about it.
Since this happens the instant the fight starts Nagash doesn't have time to precog anything. And where would he even teleport to dodge the entire planet?
And how does it negate them? I mean, does it just dissolve the things? Are you indicating it would dissolve the planet? I doubt that. I mean, if it would just dissolve normal matter everything around would be constantly erased. Keep in mind that Thor doesn't have to directly influence things in his powernulls range. Moving the planet to push against the ground below Nagash's feet, to in turn push against Nagash would suffice.
Well, he would get stuck in the 3km ground, but the planet would destroy or push the ground against Nagash.
If Nagashi only negates the movement of the ground 3km around himself, the rest of the planet will still crash against the ground, which will then crash against Nagash. The result is pretty much the same.
And yeah, since this happens immediately at a speed above both their reactions portals and ghosts wouldn't matter.
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I mean, what stops him from just teleporting 3kms into the sky to avoid such a thing, and even if he's on the ground and this comes to pass, he can just dump Dhar into anything coming near him to break it down into aethyr, effectively EE'ing anything coming near his powernull bubble, which again, he'd know to do immediately via his use of witchsight and precog, meanwhile he'd be safe to begin a planetary ritual of his own, when he was dozens of times weaker, it would have only taken him a day and in this state he was already strong enough to enact a ritual that affected the vortex from 7000km away in a few minutes at most, he'd reach planetary pretty damn quickly while his shields, powernull, and other countermeasures protect him.
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Plus Nagash could just dodge the planet being yeeted at him by pissing off into the RoC for a bit.
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The planet moving faster than his reactions, as it moves so fast that even for Thor (who speed is equalized to) it looks like teleportation.
He has no time to pull any of this even if it would work (and teleporting really wouldn't cause... planet is big)
*Planet being yeeted at him faster than he can react the instant the battle begins.
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Nagash has Massively Hypersonic reactions, I'm afraid your favorite planet will need to be moving over 100x the equalized speed to have a prayer of hitting Nagash. Speed equal rules son.
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"The combat speed of that faster character is assumed to be equalized to the combat speed of the slower character. Every other speed the faster character has is reduced by the same multiplier. This includes the speed of any attacks, projectiles, reactions, perception, flight etc." ~ Versus Thread Rules
This also means Nagash would have issues hitting Thor with anything that isn't a Hitscan or a passive. But Nagash can indeed GTFO with time to spare.
Also Thor is missing shit if he can throw planets at people.
This also means Nagash would have issues hitting Thor with anything that isn't a Hitscan or a passive. But Nagash can indeed GTFO with time to spare.
Also Thor is missing shit if he can throw planets at people.
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He wouldn't need to aim with his planetary ritual as it literally kills all life on the planet and ressurects it as an undead under his control, all he has to do is simply wait and build up the power which in this regard wouldn't be that long in the grand scheme of this fight.
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Which is hitscan lol
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Thor has Peak human combat speed, which is what would be equalized to, and the planet moves at least with at least Sub-Relativistic+ Speed and it is stated to in practice be so fast that is basically teleportation... and that is relative to Thor who likewise has Massively Hypersonic reactions.
I don't know where you get the 100x the equalized speed from, but... yeah, it is that fast.
I mean, if you red the Notable A/T section you will find an entiry called "Almighty Thor" which states everything I claim. Let me say again, that he can't usually throw planets at people, though. That only happens in this case, because Nagash's power null prevents him from being moved by the spell.
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Mmmmmmm... Also Thor should just have Massively Hypersonic Combat speed anyway if he's scaling to Silvia in that manner
Also what stops Nagash from hijacking the spell Thor is using and using the planet on him? That is something every magic caster in fantasy does, and Thor doesn't have the reactions to realize that Nagash isn't getting plopped in front of him before Nagash has made a thought and hijacked the spell or just null it, something deeply in-character for him to do, since Thor only has 2 KM of range.
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UPDATE: It's been clarified that Nagash's passive powernull is strictly based around his body, maybe a foot or two off of his body, there was a misunderstanding for the 1-3km comment relating to another power unrelated.
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Nah, he shouldn't. He could only move that fast by launching himself around with bursts, not by actually running that fast or anything.
Regarding the calc not being accepted... yeah, I never felt the need to enter it. The fact that it is so fast that it is practically teleportation to a character with Massively Hypersonic reactions stands regardless, which is more than enough to blitz, no matter how you equalize speed.
Almighty Thor is a passive spell. It takes effect before Nagash does anything.
Assuming that over 4km starting distance Nagash could even hijack a spell powerful enough to throw a planet around at massive speeds. He has neither the power nor AoE to do that from what I see.
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Combat speeds are basically that, short burst up close movement
Its better to have it be accepted to put a speed on the file
He has to actively yeet the planet like that does he not? Gives Nagash more then enough time to hijack/null the spell or **** off into the RoC
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I mean, if we are talking things accepted on the profile, combat speed is not accepted on the profile . The burst speed is via a specific technique at that, so I really don't think it can be called combat speed.
Anyway, I hope we can agree that "so much faster that it is practically teleportation" is enough to blitz.
No he doesn't. The technique automatically moves the world in the fashion that is optimal for Thor to win against his targets.
And I doubt he can hijack or null a spell with planetary AoE, when his opponent is 4km away from him.
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Nagash cannot enter the ROC in this key.
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Thanks for the clarification.
Then I ask when Almighty Thor has ever actually swung the planet at an Individual. This is also assuming Nagash doesn't just eat the spell due to it effecting the entire planet Nagash is on
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Witchsight/Rituals should be very useful here. It will not take a lot/long amount of prep for Nagash to develop a ritual with planetary range that inflicts death to Thor specifically.
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As I said plenty of times in this thread, usually the spell is non-damaging because it moves the entire world and everything on it equally. It is only because Nagash resists being moved by magic that the spell can have a damaging effect here.
So no, the spell was never used like that because it is not possible against opponents that don't locally negate its effect. Do we still know that it would happen? Yes.
As said, the spell's function is to always move the world to the spot that lets Thor win. That isn't the spot he thinks is best to let him win, he doesn't even know where it moves him most of the time, it is simply the best position to let him win. And that would be a few meter upwards in this case.
In general, even if the planet was moved at random it would still lead to the same result. The planet is anything but flat. Any change in elevation or a fraction of a degree of rotation would cause it by pure accident. Not that it would be pure accident, since, as said, it's optimized.
It will take longer than the time Thor needs to hit him with a planet.
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The spell effecting the planet gets converted into Aethyr and absorbed because it is in Nagash's effective range for his passive power null.
So basically, it never happened. I'm afraid that unless the planet rotating like that does it in-verse, that we can drop kick what we understand about physics, KE, and all of that right out the window and into the dumpster.
So basically, it never happened. I'm afraid that unless the planet rotating like that does it in-verse, that we can drop kick what we understand about physics, KE, and all of that right out the window and into the dumpster.
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You guys are both missing the part about that not being a thing, I've already clarified that wouldn't happen anymore due to him not actually nulling that far, it's based around his body and wouldn't even affect the ground below him as he floats a couple feet off the ground, at most Nagash would be aware that it isn't conventional teleportation but that's about it
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The spell from Thor effects the ground he's on, yes? It's in a bit of the area Nagash effects with his nom
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I mean his powernull would be based around his body and due to him floating high enough it wouldnt affect the ground
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One passive moves the planet at calculable speeds, the other passive... doesn't have a speed
