Azure Striker vs Yellow Flash

[Razor]

He has to place marks as well. And I'd say FTG drains more than running

 

[Smashtwig]

I guess, but GV has to aim and tag every Sumeragi and Eden soldier, while not getting swept away into the ocean by an intense tailwind- kill like a million mechs, deal with like 10 people (not exaggerating) comparable to him in power or higher back to back, etc.

Also Minato had a scene where he had his allies throw the marks and then he did the rest- FTG would be very cost inefficient, which seems counter intuitive so I doubt it drains more than running IMO- but honestly, who really cares about small details like that. In the end they fought all day/night.

 

[Razor]

Oh word? I don't remember that scene, Although from what I can remember minato fought his enemies alone. Anyways Imma concede on the stamina point

 

[Smashtwig]

It’s aight I don’t think the stamina nitpicking is that like… important, they in the same ballpark so who even cares lmao

I’m just gonna vote Incon (apparently OPs can do that)

 

[Oleggator]

It’s aight I don’t think the stamina nitpicking is that like… important, they in the same ballpark so who even cares lmao

I’m just gonna vote Incon (apparently OPs can do that)

Yeah, after I questioned that, it's not against the rules to vote. Just we probably shouldn't overuse that.

 

[Oleggator]

Incon FRA so far to me.

 

[Xmark12]

Incon FRA

 

[Peppersalt43]

Incon FRA

 

[Popted2]

Incon FRA

 

[Oleggator]

Also guys, while Y'all here can you please vote on this Gunvolt match as well, it have incon.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

If that's the case, why can't Minato just power null literally any one he fights? I believe it is NLF to assume it can do anything else (even though I assume he would have something for other people's powers). However, again, Prevasion is technology based, Minato lives in a time where the most advanced piece of technology is like... a radio... communicators? And that's in Shippuden, Minato comes from an age at least two decades ago. I absolutely disagree with the idea that Minato has ability to seal things NOT ONLY for other's powers, but TECHNOLOGY that comes from the far future of our own world. He likely wouldn't even know how it works to even make an attempt, especially with something primarily specialized in Sealing Spirits, the exact opposite of technology

We don't assume Gilgamesh can teleport just because he should have a Noble Phantasm that does that, or the ability to manipulate vectors because he should have a Noble Phantasm to do that.

Stamina
That's true, but healing can still offset that advantage anyways, plus, I still argue that Gunvolt's Stamina is still comparable to the point where it won't make all that much a difference, especially healing. As well, while Chakra is a limited resource all Ninja must keep track of, Gunvolt's Septimal Power is completely psychic and rechargeable. The more Jutsu Minato uses, the more Chakra and Stamina he drains. And we can all agree that if Minato runs out of Chakra, he's done. Meanwhile, all of Gunvolt's abilities are more mental, not physical, which means that theoretically he can keep using his powers. (After all, he can recharge his EP, Electro Psycho Energy through concentration alone, yes, that's how he charges EP). As well, GV didn't show any signs of tiring either in his stamina feat, just like Minato.

This isn’t even taking into account Blade’s Feats, who uses Gunvolt’s powers (yes, they can be scaled to each other, Gunvolt states that the Azure Striker Septima grants him a boost in physical capabilities, and Blade was a normal human before she got her Septima, it’s pretty clear that without the Septima Blade wouldn’t have the stamina feat I’m going to mention now). Blade was continously having her Septima go berserk for at least several days as she was non stop searching for her target, no breaks at all.

As well, in the gap between GV1 and GV2 (half a year I believe), Gunvolt was CONSTANTLY on the move to get away from Sumeragi, which is a company that effectively rules the entire nation and overthrowed the nation’s actual government a long time ago. Now I don’t think he was doing it straight, but he can’t afford to rest for long at all.

I don't mean he'll seal GV's equipment, I'm saying he'll seal GV himself since it doesn't require physical contact as far as I can tell. Minato just made an altar with Naruto on it (this time he can lie on it himself lol), did hand signs, and then Kurama was put inside Naruto.

Sure, although again, I don't think healing is too much of a factor since Minato often uses a kunai slice to the neck to kill opponents.

also it’s best we add these feats to Minato’s page (I’m not gonna be that guy that says “huh dur not allowed cuz not in page”, but we should do it anyways)

Legit tho “He has a considerable amount of chakra in his Base Form” does NOT do our guy justice are you kidding me bro

Tried to add that in a CRT, but they were like, wait until the versewide CRT even tho stamina isn't a part of the revision I'm pretty sure

Yes, but FTG is very low on Chakra expending, it’s pretty much nothing for him

I should also mention that technically Gunvolt can still theoretically damage Minato, yeah, not a main factor, but seriously this stamina battle is close as heck and any scrap of points can make this more even

He'll have a field day hitting someone with more than 20x greater reaction speed. It's like if KCM1 Naruto tried hitting Juubidara.

Also btw, u said Prevasion doesn't need to be activated right? So is it active from the start of the battle to the end?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

U should probably add GV's movement speed and Minato's reaction speed in the OP compared to their combat speed.

 

[Nierre]

sigh... incon fra

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I'm voting Minato btw

 

[Smashtwig]

U should probably add GV's movement speed and Minato's reaction speed in the OP compared to their combat speed.

This still gives me pain

I don't mean he'll seal GV's equipment, I'm saying he'll seal GV himself since it doesn't require physical contact as far as I can tell. Minato just made an altar with Naruto on it (this time he can lie on it himself lol), did hand signs, and then Kurama was put inside Naruto.

oh I thought you meant seal away Prevasion lmao. There are theories that GV turns into a Raijuu dog in GV3, Raijuu are known for entering peopl’s belly buttons and possessing them and the victim is basically a jinjuriki lol maybe if Minato tries that he auto loses lmao

Not sure that’ll work. The Nine Tails was a being composed of pure chakra, I can’t imagine it’ll just… work on a normal dude- it’s likely NLF to assume so. Even if it somehow does despite GV not fitting the description of what it works on, I can’t imagine Minato T-Posing and doing ninja gang signs on a small baby bed without GV noticing that there’s something very clearly wrong, then attacking Minato and the altar to prevent something like that from happening

Sure, although again, I don't think healing is too much of a factor since Minato often uses a kunai slice to the neck to kill opponents.

Eeeee I guess?

Tried to add that in a CRT, but they were like, wait until the versewide CRT even tho stamina isn't a part of the revision I'm pretty sure

Bruh let me at em we need to talk about this

He'll have a field day hitting someone with more than 20x greater reaction speed. It's like if KCM1 Naruto tried hitting Juubidara.

Hey man I said theoretically

Also btw, u said Prevasion doesn't need to be activated right? So is it active from the start of the battle to the end?

Uuuhhh, I mean, yeah. So long as GV has EP (which he’ll recharge like a madman), he’s passively be able to go intangible when an attack comes his way, while he’s moving, attacking, etc. It’ll always be on sir. Minato is just… not gonna hit the dude.

I'm voting Minato btw

Also I don’t see how I can count a vote based on never before seen NLF Sealing arguments but bro idc I’m just gonna count it anyways because yes.

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Doesn't Minato have more experience that GV?

 

[Smashtwig]

Yes, but thanks to Prevasion- it’s kinda a moot point. Kamui was the most advanced Intangibility that Minato has ever saw and… well Prevasion is that but just better with none of Kamui’s potential loopholes

As well, GV using Psychic powers (different from chakra entirely) and technology that Minato would have never seen before. It’d be hard for Minato wrap his head around that right away

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

Well, that depends if GV can catch him of not, Flying Raijin isn't a jutsu to mess around

 

[Smashtwig]

Alright let’s be real GV is NOT hitting him, not with that Reaction Advantage, but Minato ain’t doing crap to Prevasion either lol

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

I think it's stalemate then, where's the resolution button?

 

[Smashtwig]

Bet so Incon, Grace

 

[MinatoSparkle]

This still gives me pain

Sry lol

oh I thought you meant seal away Prevasion lmao. There are theories that GV turns into a Raijuu dog in GV3, Raijuu are known for entering peopl’s belly buttons and possessing them and the victim is basically a jinjuriki lol maybe if Minato tries that he auto loses lmao

He'll seal him inside a cage tho

Not sure that’ll work. The Nine Tails was a being composed of pure chakra, I can’t imagine it’ll just… work on a normal dude- it’s likely NLF to assume so. Even if it somehow does despite GV not fitting the description of what it works on, I can’t imagine Minato T-Posing and doing ninja gang signs on a small baby bed without GV noticing that there’s something very clearly wrong, then attacking Minato and the altar to prevent something like that from happening

It's sealing away chakra either way. If anything, it's the opposite of a NLF, since Minato was able to seal away a High 6-C being's chakra, while GV is only 7-B. It'd be NLF if I said he could seal a planet level being or something. Sealing someone with less chakra (via verse equalization) is perfectly reasonable.

As for the 2nd thing, it really doesn't take that long lol. Like literally, he can just lie down, do like a few handsigns and the deed is done. It was only long in the story because of him being weak and Kushina giving a speech. Also, he could use another object to seal GV into.

Eeeee I guess?

Yeeeee

Bruh let me at em we need to talk about this

U can try

Hey man I said theoretically

Not even theoretically possible

Uuuhhh, I mean, yeah. So long as GV has EP (which he’ll recharge like a madman), he’s passively be able to go intangible when an attack comes his way, while he’s moving, attacking, etc. It’ll always be on sir. Minato is just… not gonna hit the dude.

So how do you die in the game?

Also I don’t see how I can count a vote based on never before seen NLF Sealing arguments but bro idc I’m just gonna count it anyways because yes.

Not NLF

Bet so Incon, Grace

If sealing isn't a wincon, are matches where neither can hurt each other allowed?

 

[Smashtwig]

He'll seal him inside a cage tho

It's sealing away chakra either way. If anything, it's the opposite of a NLF, since Minato was able to seal away a High 6-C being's chakra, while GV is only 7-B. It'd be NLF if I said he could seal a planet level being or something. Sealing someone with less chakra (via verse equalization) is perfectly reasonable.

As for the 2nd thing, it really doesn't take that long lol. Like literally, he can just lie down, do like a few handsigns and the deed is done. It was only long in the story because of him being weak and Kushina giving a speech. Also, he could use another object to seal GV into.

NLF doesn’t just apply to Tiering actually. It stands for No Limits Fallacy, I’ll take Gilgamesh as an example, his Gate of Babylon gives him access to every single Noble Phantasm, theoretically, he should be nigh-omnipotent with every power ever, because each NP has a special ability. However, we can’t say he has an NP that resists ___ hax, or a NP that manipulates vectors- because he hasn’t shown to be able to do that with Gate or Babylon, regardless if he should logically have NPs that can do that.

Another example would be characters known for resisting a ton of things. I can’t say X Character “Resists Everything” because they say they “Resist Everything”, they have to show what Haxes that they resist. DND is a perfect example- theoretically they should be able to resist everything with Saving Throws, but that’s still an assumption according to VSBW Rules- so the DND supports have to compile an absolutely massive list of all of the abilities a DND character can resist.

Applying that to here, Minato has 3 Sealing Jutsu shown, but he’s a Sealing Jutsu specialist, kinda- he should logically have more- but he hasn’t shown it, and VSBW Rules that would be NLF to assume he something to say, Power Null an enemy even if he should logically have something for that. Same with Sealing GV in there, it’s directly stated it’s primary purpose is to seal Evil and Giant Spirits- they don’t tell us what it’s other uses are for, and we only see it one time, to assume that it can seal away human beings that aren’t evil is kinda NLF.

In addition, I don’t think Minato would go for this in character in the middle of battle. Plus, this would mean he would have to somehow do all of this while Gunvolt is attacking him, I mean, yeah Reactions, but that’ll only help him get away to dodge, not allow him to Summon the altar, put himself on top of it, and then make hand seals. All Gunvolt needs to do is pull the trigger, a heck of a less things than what Minato has to do. Even with your tiering logic, why couldn’t he have done that VS Obito, Fourth Raikage, or literally anyone? He’s a Genius, I’m sure he would know its limitations and how it can be used mid battle, if it even can be used in combat without getting bopped trying to do it. It would be mad helpful against Perfect Jinjuriki Killer Bee after all, or say, again, Obito

U can try

I will sir this is dummy

So how do you die in the game?

By being bad at the game lmao. I deadass have seen so many people play. They all die by being bad.

If sealing isn't a wincon, are matches where neither can hurt each other allowed?

yep, 682 exists and Gold Experience Requiem exists.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

NLF doesn’t just apply to Tiering actually. It stands for No Limits Fallacy, I’ll take Gilgamesh as an example, his Gate of Babylon gives him access to every single Noble Phantasm, theoretically, he should be nigh-omnipotent with every power ever, because each NP has a special ability. However, we can’t say he has an NP that resists ___ hax, or a NP that manipulates vectors- because he hasn’t shown to be able to do that with Gate or Babylon, regardless if he should logically have NPs that can do that.

Another example would be characters known for resisting a ton of things. I can’t say X Character “Resists Everything” because they say they “Resist Everything”, they have to show what Haxes that they resist. DND is a perfect example- theoretically they should be able to resist everything with Saving Throws, but that’s still an assumption according to VSBW Rules- so the DND supports have to compile an absolutely massive list of all of the abilities a DND character can resist.

Applying that to here, Minato has 3 Sealing Jutsu shown, but he’s a Sealing Jutsu specialist, kinda- he should logically have more- but he hasn’t shown it, and VSBW Rules that would be NLF to assume he something to say, Power Null an enemy even if he should logically have something for that. Same with Sealing GV in there, it’s directly stated it’s primary purpose is to seal Evil and Giant Spirits- they don’t tell us what it’s other uses are for, and we only see it one time, to assume that it can seal away human beings that aren’t evil is kinda NLF.

In addition, I don’t think Minato would go for this in character in the middle of battle. Plus, this would mean he would have to somehow do all of this while Gunvolt is attacking him, I mean, yeah Reactions, but that’ll only help him get away to dodge, not allow him to Summon the altar, put himself on top of it, and then make hand seals. All Gunvolt needs to do is pull the trigger, a heck of a less things than what Minato has to do. Even with your tiering logic, why couldn’t he have done that VS Obito, Fourth Raikage, or literally anyone? He’s a Genius, I’m sure he would know its limitations and how it can be used mid battle, if it even can be used in combat without getting bopped trying to do it. It would be mad helpful against Perfect Jinjuriki Killer Bee after all, or say, again, Obito

I will sir this is dummy

By being bad at the game lmao. I deadass have seen so many people play. They all die by being bad.

yep, 682 exists and Gold Experience Requiem exists.

I know what it stands for.

Those are very different things though. One is assuming Gilgamesh has a power that's never been shown while this is assuming Minato can seal away a smaller quantity of chakra in the exact same way. For example, if Kinshiki only showed the ability to create large axes with chakra, can he not conjure small axes of chakra? It's that same logic.

Plus, "large enemy" is kinda vague. It could mean large in comparison to atoms or something so regular humans do count. Of course, that's probably not what it means, but it's vague enough that there's some room for debate.

He wouldn't go for it at the start, but if he sees that he has no way to hit GV, then he'll go for it eventually.

Minato can summon shadow clones as distractions or use a smoke screen or hide underground or something.

Btw, would the paralysis technique work while Prevasion is active? And would it stop Prevasion from working?

He was trying to kill Obito, not seal him.

Stabbing Ay was quicker, and after seeing them more in action, he respected both of them and didn't want to kill them.

Also a possible wincon if u really aren't convinced still is having a shadow clone use the Reaper Death Seal. It would be considerably less powerful, but GV is considerably less powerful than Kurama.

mk lemme know when u do and I'll comment my agreement.

But like, if he's permanently intangible, isn't it impossible for him to take damage and die? And what if GV is bad and dies in this battle?

Confusion but ok.

 

[Smashtwig]

I know what it stands for.

Those are very different things though. One is assuming Gilgamesh has a power that's never been shown while this is assuming Minato can seal away a smaller quantity of chakra in the exact same way. For example, if Kinshiki only showed the ability to create large axes with chakra, can he not conjure small axes of chakra? It's that same logic.

Plus, "large enemy" is kinda vague. It could mean large in comparison to atoms or something so regular humans do count. Of course, that's probably not what it means, but it's vague enough that there's some room for debate.

But we also know it’s specifically designed for evil spirits. If it was this powerful why in tarnation hasn’t it been used before against anyone else, as you say yourself, stabbing Fourth Raikage was faster- sealing like this will just take too long. It’s just not in character for him to go for this.

He wouldn't go for it at the start, but if he sees that he has no way to hit GV, then he'll go for it eventually.

Minato can summon shadow clones as distractions or use a smoke screen or hide underground or something.

Shadow Clones, as I said before, aren’t the best idea with the Vasuki Bolt, and when in heckery has he ever hid underground? Just cuz Kakashi can do it doesn’t mean every Jonin can. Same with smoke bombs, never recall Minato ever using that. Also, I’m quite sure that GV will be paying more attention to Minato doing a bloody ritual than another random, and Minato is smart enough to notice that GV isn’t exactly stupid to even dare to try something so ridiculous.

Btw, would the paralysis technique work while Prevasion is active? And would it stop Prevasion from working?

Oh wait yeah I was gonna ask that question, in all of my years watching Naruto, I have never seen or heard of this “Paralysis Technique”

Okay I looked it up. WHY IN TARNATION DO PEOPLE NOT USE THIS WTF BRO. Shadow Possesion Jutsu is now frickin useless bro what.

As for its effectiveness, it’s… hard to say, based on the ways how Prevasion was bypassed with certain Septima, it’s theoretically possible- but it’s really theoretically possible, “grabbing” attacks bypassing Prevasion are extremely inconsistent, it’s not as simple as “lol there’s some chains around u” since grapple attacks like Carrera don’t do that even though it’s a giant hand, yet Iron Maidens work just fine. Given Minato has been never shown using it even though he could, it’s the same argument I have for the Sealing. In addition, it seems to be a short range thing, and since speed is equal, Gunvolt can just kite and outrange the entire match and Minato can’t get close. Yes, he has FTG but he’d need to throw his Kunai to do it, but speed is equal, and FTG can only teleport to the location of the Kunai, which is as fast as GV. SBA states that they start at the edge of one’s max range, about a hundred meters, Minato likely won’t get in range. Even if he gets it off, GV can still defend himself with Astrasphere, Flashfield, Healing, just so many other defensive options. Also, it’s possible that the Paralysis technique has to be aimed much like the Mind Transfer Jutsu, doubt it’s something that would be used in battle as a major option, because if it was, we’d see it a heck of a lot more.

Also a possible wincon if u really aren't convinced still is having a shadow clone use the Reaper Death Seal. It would be considerably less powerful, but GV is considerably less powerful than Kurama.

I recall that Both Minato and Hiruzen still both die from it though, Hiruzen didn’t just make one more dang clone to RDS because it still requires the soul of the Caster, claiming the user’s life no matter what. Otherwise Minato could have definitely done that in the war too to seal off like, Madara or Obito (Ten Tails or Not). Or Hiruzen could have done it on the Buddha Wood Gundam Mecha User.

But like, if he's permanently intangible, isn't it impossible for him to take damage and die? And what if GV is bad and dies in this battle?

When I meant players being bad I meant like, they just are stupid enough to Overheat from using EP too much and not recharging, which GV in character does. The only other time he doesn’t spam recharge is in his boss fight JUST so player can actually ****** beat him, when in reality GV knows to always top off his EP whenever he can.



All of these wincons are just, out of character, if Minato was Bloodlusted, yeah sure, but in character… I just have a hard time believing he’ll actually seriously think of using these in serious combat.

 

[Smashtwig]

mk lemme know when u do and I'll comment my agreement.

How bout NOW sir lead me to the guy who said to wait

 

[MinatoSparkle]

But we also know it’s specifically designed for evil spirits. If it was this powerful why in tarnation hasn’t it been used before against anyone else, as you say yourself, stabbing Fourth Raikage was faster- sealing like this will just take too long. It’s just not in character for him to go for this.

PIS/it doesn't suit his fighting style well.

It's not in character for him to go to it immediately. There's a difference. Minato's never been forced into a situation where he HAS to seal his opponent. But he has to do that against GV.

Shadow Clones, as I said before, aren’t the best idea with the Vasuki Bolt, and when in heckery has he ever hid underground? Just cuz Kakashi can do it doesn’t mean every Jonin can. Same with smoke bombs, never recall Minato ever using that. Also, I’m quite sure that GV will be paying more attention to Minato doing a bloody ritual than another random, and Minato is smart enough to notice that GV isn’t exactly stupid to even dare to try something so ridiculous.

All the shadow clones will evade all his attacks, cause they also have Rel reactions.

Sure maybe not.

He has smoke bombs. They're a standard part of every ninja's gear.

I really don't think the "X character has never done this" argument for everything to say it's out of character makes sense. We haven't seen Minato fighting that much, we obviously wouldn't have seen everything he can do. But just assuming he won't do anything that he hasn't explicitly shown doing seems like a bit of an argument from ignorance.

He can't pay attention to Minato if he's covered in smoke.

Oh wait yeah I was gonna ask that question, in all of my years watching Naruto, I have never seen or heard of this “Paralysis Technique”

Okay I looked it up. WHY IN TARNATION DO PEOPLE NOT USE THIS WTF BRO. Shadow Possesion Jutsu is now frickin useless bro what.

PIS? Kishi is forgetful?

As for its effectiveness, it’s… hard to say, based on the ways how Prevasion was bypassed with certain Septima, it’s theoretically possible- but it’s really theoretically possible, “grabbing” attacks bypassing Prevasion are extremely inconsistent, it’s not as simple as “lol there’s some chains around u” since grapple attacks like Carrera don’t do that even though it’s a giant hand, yet Iron Maidens work just fine. Given Minato has been never shown using it even though he could, it’s the same argument I have for the Sealing. In addition, it seems to be a short range thing, and since speed is equal, Gunvolt can just kite and outrange the entire match and Minato can’t get close. Yes, he has FTG but he’d need to throw his Kunai to do it, but speed is equal, and FTG can only teleport to the location of the Kunai, which is as fast as GV. SBA states that they start at the edge of one’s max range, about a hundred meters, Minato likely won’t get in range. Even if he gets it off, GV can still defend himself with Astrasphere, Flashfield, Healing, just so many other defensive options. Also, it’s possible that the Paralysis technique has to be aimed much like the Mind Transfer Jutsu, doubt it’s something that would be used in battle as a major option, because if it was, we’d see it a heck of a lot more.

Your argument for sealing doesn't apply here because his profile actually says he likely has it.

Doesn't seem to be short range. The Anbu cast it from like a dozen meters away.

At worst, it's a mid range jutsu.

GV can't outrange. His movement speed is Massively Hypersonic in speed equalization while Minato's is Sub-Relativistic and far higher with Shunshin.

Minato's kunai throw speed isn't necessarily the same as his punching speed.

Can he cast attacks while paralyzed? Even if he can, Minato can just use that time to seal him if he can't get close.

Even if it has to be aimed, I don't think it's slow, considering it could intercept super tigers mid pounce.

I recall that Both Minato and Hiruzen still both die from it though, Hiruzen didn’t just make one more dang clone to RDS because it still requires the soul of the Caster, claiming the user’s life no matter what. Otherwise Minato could have definitely done that in the war too to seal off like, Madara or Obito (Ten Tails or Not). Or Hiruzen could have done it on the Buddha Wood Gundam Mecha User.

Idk if Hiruzen's clone would've had the strength to pull out Orochimaru's soul.

Nah, Minato could only seal away half of Kurama with the RDS, it definitely ain't working on Juubito or Juubidara. By the time he entered the battle, he basically killed Base Obito, and he was far away from the Edo Madara battle. Then he didn't see Madara until he was Juubidara at which point he was way too strong.

That wouldn't have been worth it since he could hold it off without sealing himself in the Reaper's belly a second time.

Also I'm not sure if Edo Tensei ninja CAN cast the RDS since they're dead.

When I meant players being bad I meant like, they just are stupid enough to Overheat from using EP too much and not recharging, which GV in character does. The only other time he doesn’t spam recharge is in his boss fight JUST so player can actually ****** beat him, when in reality GV knows to always top off his EP whenever he can.

Confusion but ok

All of these wincons are just, out of character, if Minato was Bloodlusted, yeah sure, but in character… I just have a hard time believing he’ll actually seriously think of using these in serious combat.

Minato's a freaking genius. He'll figure out at some point in the battle that his standard attack plan isn't working and get more creative. He's very adaptable in combat and amazing at deducing abilities. He'll figure he can't physically harm GV and think of another way and eventually go to sealing or paralysis.

 

[Smashtwig]

All the shadow clones will evade all his attacks, cause they also have Rel reactions.

GV can't outrange. His movement speed is Massively Hypersonic in speed equalization while Minato's is Sub-Relativistic and far higher with Shunshin.

Minato's kunai throw speed isn't necessarily the same as his punching speed.

Even if it has to be aimed, I don't think it's slow, considering it could intercept super tigers mid pounce

"Speed"

AKJ SFADNKJFSKfnisldnjas p;d

 

[MinatoSparkle]

"Speed"

AKJ SFADNKJFSKfnisldnjas p;d

 

[Smashtwig]

EEE Hold on Maannanaanannnn

 

[Smashtwig]

PIS/it doesn't suit his fighting style well.

It's not in character for him to go to it immediately. There's a difference. Minato's never been forced into a situation where he HAS to seal his opponent. But he has to do that against GV.

As you said, doesn't suit his fighting style, and it's specialized in evil spirits (spirits in general), yes, I still stand by that point, this jutsu is just... situational. I pretty much stand by the idea that he won't even bother thinking that it's an option, if he does think about it, he'd be like "Even if I distract him, he'll still know something's up, those weird needles he shoots from his Ninja Tool are dangerous, I can't afford staying still for a second- and even if I can dodge his attack, the Altar (with the candles) won't be protected...!"

In addition, again, Nine Tails is a pure chakra being, while Gunvolt is well... human, with organs and everything. This is a jutsu specializing in sealing Chakra... which GV may not even have in the first place.

All the shadow clones will evade all his attacks, cause they also have Rel reactions.

He has smoke bombs. They're a standard part of every ninja's gear.

I really don't think the "X character has never done this" argument for everything to say it's out of character makes sense. We haven't seen Minato fighting that much, we obviously wouldn't have seen everything he can do. But just assuming he won't do anything that he hasn't explicitly shown doing seems like a bit of an argument from ignorance.

He can't pay attention to Minato if he's covered in smoke.

First of EEEE on speed

Alright fine, I guess he could have like... some

As for this point, honestly, I kinda agree, just because someone doesn't do something that shouldn't mean they can't. I'm just following what I understand about VS Debating.

GV isn't y'know... stupid, he'd cast a big attack in that smoke at the very least, a Luxcaliber, Danmaku Voltaic Chains (which is actually a potential counter to FTG if it covers all the FTG Marks, which... it actually could. And if he gets hit by Grand Strizer things could suck even worse, but we don't talk about Grand Strizer here

PIS? Kishi is forgetful?

Your argument for sealing doesn't apply here because his profile actually says he likely has it.

Doesn't seem to be short range. The Anbu cast it from like a dozen meters away.

At worst, it's a mid range jutsu.

We don't see much of this jutsu to be honest, it's just hard of a wincon to point out, and it may not even work against Prevasion. It is also one of the last thing's he'll ever try to be honest. The fact that he has to rely on all of these niche options that wouldn't normally come to mind mid-battle means a lot. I'm sure Kakashi (also a genius) could have beat Deva Pain with the O N E T H O U S A N D J U T S U he has, but he just stuck with Lightning Blade and its variants the entire time, yknow, the thing that he says he can only use like 4 times instead of the other T H O U S A N D jutsu he has. And he didn't consider to use any of them, why would Minato think differently? PIS or not, it's still something he's very unlikely to use.

GV can't outrange. His movement speed is Massively Hypersonic in speed equalization while Minato's is Sub-Relativistic and far higher with Shunshin.

Minato's kunai throw speed isn't necessarily the same as his punching speed.

Can he cast attacks while paralyzed? Even if he can, Minato can just use that time to seal him if he can't get close.

Even if it has to be aimed, I don't think it's slow, considering it could intercept super tigers mid pounce.

Speed EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE This is BS, GV can still just shoot the Kunai down as soon as he sees it being thrown. And yes, he can just cast attacks while Paralyzed, again, my points of this just not being a likely possibility exists

Idk if Hiruzen's clone would've had the strength to pull out Orochimaru's soul.

That wouldn't have been worth it since he could hold it off without sealing himself in the Reaper's belly a second time.

Also I'm not sure if Edo Tensei ninja CAN cast the RDS since they're dead.

It certainly pulled out effin' H A S H I R A M A. Pretty sure he can pull out Orochimaru's. Plus, Shadow Clone's aren't weaker, it's just that they has crap Durability

It would be worth it if he just makes a Clone do it. This kinda just adds to my point that this isn't a win condition if it just seals away Minato too

We see Minato's soul exiting the Reanimation Jutsu after saying his goodbyes to Naruto, his soul is there, they can definitely use RDS.

Minato's a freaking genius. He'll figure out at some point in the battle that his standard attack plan isn't working and get more creative. He's very adaptable in combat and amazing at deducing abilities. He'll figure he can't physically harm GV and think of another way and eventually go to sealing or paralysis.

I understand that, I'm still counting ur vote for Minato cuz I see where you're coming from- I'm just saying it's not a likely thing that could happen. If u think otherwise like, I can't change ur mind lol

 

[MinatoSparkle]

As you said, doesn't suit his fighting style, and it's specialized in evil spirits (spirits in general), yes, I still stand by that point, this jutsu is just... situational. I pretty much stand by the idea that he won't even bother thinking that it's an option, if he does think about it, he'd be like "Even if I distract him, he'll still know something's up, those weird needles he shoots from his Ninja Tool are dangerous, I can't afford staying still for a second- and even if I can dodge his attack, the Altar (with the candles) won't be protected...!"

So then what'll he do? "Yeah, that option is a bit risky but one of my only bets at winning...Nah, I'm just gonna be a dumb dumb and continue teleporting away and trying to slice 'im."

In addition, again, Nine Tails is a pure chakra being, while Gunvolt is well... human, with organs and everything. This is a jutsu specializing in sealing Chakra... which GV may not even have in the first place.

Bijuu have physical insides too.

First of EEEE on speed

Alright fine, I guess he could have like... some

Aha

As for this point, honestly, I kinda agree, just because someone doesn't do something that shouldn't mean they can't. I'm just following what I understand about VS Debating.

There isn't any rule against this kind of deduction as far as I'm aware.

GV isn't y'know... stupid, he'd cast a big attack in that smoke at the very least, a Luxcaliber, Danmaku Voltaic Chains (which is actually a potential counter to FTG if it covers all the FTG Marks, which... it actually could. And if he gets hit by Grand Strizer things could suck even worse, but we don't talk about Grand Strizer here

Yeah, but then Minato will teleport if it's dangerous. Also, he could throw a smoke bomb, then dash out of the smoke into a forest with Shunshin (cause the battle is in Central Park which has numerous forests), then prepare the jutsu while GV is aimlessly shooting at the smoke.

We don't see much of this jutsu to be honest, it's just hard of a wincon to point out, and it may not even work against Prevasion. It is also one of the last thing's he'll ever try to be honest. The fact that he has to rely on all of these niche options that wouldn't normally come to mind mid-battle means a lot. I'm sure Kakashi (also a genius) could have beat Deva Pain with the O N E T H O U S A N D J U T S U he has, but he just stuck with Lightning Blade and its variants the entire time, yknow, the thing that he says he can only use like 4 times instead of the other T H O U S A N D jutsu he has. And he didn't consider to use any of them, why would Minato think differently? PIS or not, it's still something he's very unlikely to use.

It's one of the last things he'll try, but at least he has something to try that has a plausible chance of working, while GV does not.

Kakashi's battle with Pain didn't last long enough for him to reach the point of having to try the more niche aspects of his arsenal.

Speed EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE This is BS, GV can still just shoot the Kunai down as soon as he sees it being thrown. And yes, he can just cast attacks while Paralyzed, again, my points of this just not being a likely possibility exists

Sure, but that's assuming he tries to. Depends on if at this point he's figured out how Kamui works.

When has he cast spells while paralyzed? And anyways, I've talked about why that doesn't change the outcome necessarily.

It is literally "likely."

It certainly pulled out effin' H A S H I R A M A. Pretty sure he can pull out Orochimaru's. Plus, Shadow Clone's aren't weaker, it's just that they has crap Durability

That version of Edo Hashirama didn't have a will to resist the pull of the Reaper. Plus he was far more nerfed than WA Edo Hashirama.

It would be worth it if he just makes a Clone do it. This kinda just adds to my point that this isn't a win condition if it just seals away Minato too

It'd be worth it if it works.

We see Minato's soul exiting the Reanimation Jutsu after saying his goodbyes to Naruto, his soul is there, they can definitely use RDS.

Sure but my other points still stand.

I understand that, I'm still counting ur vote for Minato cuz I see where you're coming from- I'm just saying it's not a likely thing that could happen. If u think otherwise like, I can't change ur mind lol

Regardless of whether it's a likely thing to happen, Minato's win cons are more realistic than GV's as far as I can tell. Even if it's like a 50.00001% chance of Minato winning compared to GV having a 49.99999% chance, that still means his chances are better than GV's, so then he's who should be voted for. Honestly I think it's more like 8-9/10 times since while it could take a long time, I don't see many realistic scenarios where he doesn't get creative at some point.

 

[Smashtwig]

So then what'll he do? "Yeah, that option is a bit risky but one of my only bets at winning...Nah, I'm just gonna be a dumb dumb and continue teleporting away and trying to slice 'im."

Actually, he may realize that GV has limitations to his powers (EP stuff), and gun for that instead, in fact, that's far more likely than believing that sealing is the only option. He'd likely notice GV recharging, and try to see if he can prevent him from doing that

Bijuu have physical insides too.

I know, but well... "The tailed beasts (尾獣, bijū), sometimes referred to as "Chakra Monsters" (チャクラのバケモノ, Chakura no Bakemono),[1] are the nine titanic living forms of chakra created by the Sage of Six Paths out of the chakra from the Ten-Tails" It's constantly shown that the Tailed Beasts are made out of Chakra, they don't even leave a corpse behind when their chakra is sucked up. Heck, I recall at least once where their chakra was freed and then it immediately transformed into the beasts

They are primarily Chakra based, the Seal we are talking about is meant to seal Chakra, something GV may not have at all (after all Chakra does come from the Fruit of Kaguya Lore BS or whatever the heck)

There isn't any rule against this kind of deduction as far as I'm aware.

I mean, in my experience, it's always about "but did he show it tho" and then I go "uh... no... but he... can... tho" "NAH BRO HE CAN'T" "bruh"

Yeah, but then Minato will teleport if it's dangerous. Also, he could throw a smoke bomb, then dash out of the smoke into a forest with Shunshin (cause the battle is in Central Park which has numerous forests), then prepare the jutsu while GV is aimlessly shooting at the smoke.

Again, GV isn't stupid, he'll know if he missed or not. Plus, by then he'd know how FTG actually works, and again, attacking minato at that time still prevents his attempt at sealing

It's one of the last things he'll try, but at least he has something to try that has a plausible chance of working, while GV does not.

Danmaku shit with bolts Voltaic Chains, I still think GV can still tag Minato, even if he has that speed, GV has a lot of coverage, plus he knows how FTG works so he can potentially predict where he can go

Kakashi's battle with Pain didn't last long enough for him to reach the point of having to try the more niche aspects of his arsenal.

Okay, try Zabuza- he had a long ass time to understand how he fights, but he just... sticked to copying his crap instead of pulling out Earth Ninjutsu, something effective vs water ninjutsu

Sure, but that's assuming he tries to. Depends on if at this point he's figured out how Kamui works.

When has he cast spells while paralyzed? And anyways, I've talked about why that doesn't change the outcome necessarily.

It is literally "likely."

He would figure out how FTG works yes. It's very similar to his Tag and Flash system, just teleportation instead

Iron Maiden, uses Flashfield, pretty much no diffed. The other examples are pretty much game mechanics so the player can't just say "oh lmao i'll just astrasphere out and not take the hit"

It still matters though, due to its range, GV can still hit with things like Voltaic Chains and Astrasphere

That version of Edo Hashirama didn't have a will to resist the pull of the Reaper. Plus he was far more nerfed than WA Edo Hashirama.

Doesn't matter what his will was, he was being controlled, eh, doesn't really matter

It'd be worth it if it works.

Sure but my other points still stand.

I... I don't think losing your soul is worth it man

Regardless of whether it's a likely thing to happen, Minato's win cons are more realistic than GV's as far as I can tell. Even if it's like a 50.00001% chance of Minato winning compared to GV having a 49.99999% chance, that still means his chances are better than GV's, so then he's who should be voted for. Honestly I think it's more like 8-9/10 times since while it could take a long time, I don't see many realistic scenarios where he doesn't get creative at some point.

Gunvolt can get creative too, he's from QUILL, a place that specializes in guerilla tactics (I can't find the scan since there's so much hidden GV content, maybe it was in a loading screen). So he can also sneak attack from the trees. Plus he has a realistic win con too, predict where Minato can teleport based on the markings- and hit the guy.

The fact that it can be debated if the Sealing even works against someone without even Chakra is.... ergh, plus how its also debatable that Minato won't even think of it as relevant, considering its more likely that he'd go after the potential limitations of GV's Electro Psycho Energy

(plz man it's just an incon, Minato ain't losing or anything)

 

[Xmark12]

Okay first off, sealing seems to be Minato's last resort. He doesn't use it literally anywhere else, like, why didn't he do it against the person he thought was MADARA UCHIHA. You may say that Minato wanted him dead, but sealing would have allowed more time for Minato and any allies to figure out what the hell to even do. Bottom line is that Minato wouldn't go for sealing in-character, the only time he has used sealing was to seal the Nine Tails, and that's it. Even against dangerous foes, he's never once considered sealing, and there has to be a reason for that, and one of the reasons could be the next point:

Secondly, it'll take way too long for it to even happen. Just go back to the Nine Tails sealing scene. You need to summon the altar, then do the hand seals, which GV can just, y'know... either destroy the altar or interrupt the hand seals with any of his many AoE attacks. Sealing will just take way too long and could be interrupted way too easily, which is likely why he doesn't even use it in-character in the first place. It's more likely he'll try exhausting all of his techniques before then in-character, most of which won't work because of Prevasion (honestly GV can literally just switch to Dullahan tags and attack Minato without having to disable Prevasion to use Flashfield, then just Recharge every time his EP is low, since... GV can still attack while intangible, unlike Obito who had to go tangible to attack), but by the time he even considers sealing, it may be too late.

There's also the fact that Chakra isn't replenishable unless Minato sleeps, so eventually, he's going to run out, while GV can pretty much keep on Recharging forever. Chakra is connected to stamina, so even though both of them have similar stamina, Minato will likely be the first to run out of his energy resource if he tries all of his options compared to GV, who again, can simply Recharge back to full at any time. Remember, a big stamina feat is that he fought throughout an entire night, fighting opponents equally as strong as him all in a row, and in the true ending, he did it all without Prevasion. And the worst thing about it is, at the end of it all, fighting through an entire night, GV shown no signs of even being tired... he was just depressed. Minato meanwhile only fought hordes of fodder, Obito, and the Nine Tails (which wasn't even a fight) in his stamina feat.

Either way, the above reasons given still lean this battle towards Inconclusive, but take what I said with what you will.

 

[Smashtwig]

he did it all without Prevasion.

I fricking forgot about that

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Actually, he may realize that GV has limitations to his powers (EP stuff), and gun for that instead, in fact, that's far more likely than believing that sealing is the only option. He'd likely notice GV recharging, and try to see if he can prevent him from doing that

Yeah, he'll try that. If it fails, then onto plan C.

I know, but well... "The tailed beasts (尾獣, bijū), sometimes referred to as "Chakra Monsters" (チャクラのバケモノ, Chakura no Bakemono),[1] are the nine titanic living forms of chakra created by the Sage of Six Paths out of the chakra from the Ten-Tails" It's constantly shown that the Tailed Beasts are made out of Chakra, they don't even leave a corpse behind when their chakra is sucked up. Heck, I recall at least once where their chakra was freed and then it immediately transformed into the beasts

They are primarily Chakra based, the Seal we are talking about is meant to seal Chakra, something GV may not have at all (after all Chakra does come from the Fruit of Kaguya Lore BS or whatever the heck)

But via verse equalization he would have chakra.

I mean, in my experience, it's always about "but did he show it tho" and then I go "uh... no... but he... can... tho" "NAH BRO HE CAN'T" "bruh"

Still not a rule tho

Again, GV isn't stupid, he'll know if he missed or not. Plus, by then he'd know how FTG actually works, and again, attacking minato at that time still prevents his attempt at sealing

He could just think he hasn't hit Minato yet.

Not if he escapes into the forest.

Danmaku shit with bolts Voltaic Chains, I still think GV can still tag Minato, even if he has that speed, GV has a lot of coverage, plus he knows how FTG works so he can potentially predict where he can go

You can't predict where an FTG user will go unless u can read their mind. It has nothing to track.

Okay, try Zabuza- he had a long ass time to understand how he fights, but he just... sticked to copying his crap instead of pulling out Earth Ninjutsu, something effective vs water ninjutsu

Because his tactic was to play mind games with Zabuza, which worked.

He would figure out how FTG works yes. It's very similar to his Tag and Flash system, just teleportation instead

It depends on how long into the battle he does it.

Iron Maiden, uses Flashfield, pretty much no diffed. The other examples are pretty much game mechanics so the player can't just say "oh lmao i'll just astrasphere out and not take the hit"

Ite, then he'll paralyze him, then seal him instead of attacking him.

It still matters though, due to its range, GV can still hit with things like Voltaic Chains and Astrasphere

And Minato can still use paralysis. Difference is that attack is invisible and impossible to see coming while Minato could just dodge those attacks.

Doesn't matter what his will was, he was being controlled, eh, doesn't really matter

To resist the RDS, you have to do it consciously.

I... I don't think losing your soul is worth it man

I mean they didn't have a shadow clone use RDS cause it wouldn't work.

Gunvolt can get creative too, he's from QUILL, a place that specializes in guerilla tactics (I can't find the scan since there's so much hidden GV content, maybe it was in a loading screen). So he can also sneak attack from the trees. Plus he has a realistic win con too, predict where Minato can teleport based on the markings- and hit the guy.

Come on, u know he's worse at battle strategy than Minato.

Minato's a top notch sensor. If he doesn't see GV, he'll sense for him.

Again, how will he predict it?

The fact that it can be debated if the Sealing even works against someone without even Chakra is.... ergh, plus how its also debatable that Minato won't even think of it as relevant, considering its more likely that he'd go after the potential limitations of GV's Electro Psycho Energy

*with chakra

1. He'll try attacking normally
2. He'll try to look for a weakness in his ability
3. He'll attempt sealing
4. He'll think while evading
5. He'll use paralysis

(plz man it's just an incon, Minato ain't losing or anything)

You're right, he ain't losing, he's winning.

Okay first off, sealing seems to be Minato's last resort. He doesn't use it literally anywhere else, like, why didn't he do it against the person he thought was MADARA UCHIHA. You may say that Minato wanted him dead, but sealing would have allowed more time for Minato and any allies to figure out what the hell to even do. Bottom line is that Minato wouldn't go for sealing in-character, the only time he has used sealing was to seal the Nine Tails, and that's it. Even against dangerous foes, he's never once considered sealing, and there has to be a reason for that, and one of the reasons could be the next point:

I've accepted that it's a last resort numerous times. And he'll be pushed into a last resort in this battle.

Secondly, it'll take way too long for it to even happen. Just go back to the Nine Tails sealing scene. You need to summon the altar, then do the hand seals, which GV can just, y'know... either destroy the altar or interrupt the hand seals with any of his many AoE attacks. Sealing will just take way too long and could be interrupted way too easily, which is likely why he doesn't even use it in-character in the first place. It's more likely he'll try exhausting all of his techniques before then in-character, most of which won't work because of Prevasion (honestly GV can literally just switch to Dullahan tags and attack Minato without having to disable Prevasion to use Flashfield, then just Recharge every time his EP is low, since... GV can still attack while intangible, unlike Obito who had to go tangible to attack), but by the time he even considers sealing, it may be too late.

It's really not that extensive a process. He just summoned the altar, and placed the sealing target

Then after they got stabbed and dealt with the key and Kushina said her farewells and everything, Minato was just like "Seal," and it was done.

Now that I look at it, it may not actually require any hand seals. We didn't see him making any anyways. And I've talked about the ways he can keep GV preoccupied already.

What's Dulahan?

 

[Razor]

I just wanna note. GV is definitely not hitting minato. Maybe at the start of battle he might be able to to but once he's placed a good amount of markings GV can't hit him, GV can't predict where he'll go because there's multiple markings and he wouldn't know which one minato will teleport into. Knowing FTG Won't help him either, FTG is actually kinda basic compared to other teleportation based techniques, Minato's skill at FTG is what makes him dangerous, not solely FTG. Also minato still has SM right? That would boost his combat speed to be superior to GV and boost his already superior reactions on top of having heightened senses.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I just wanna note. GV is definitely not hitting minato. Maybe at the start of battle he might be able to to but once he's placed a good amount of markings GV can't hit him, GV can't predict where he'll go because there's multiple markings and he wouldn't know which one minato will teleport into. Knowing FTG Won't help him either, FTG is actually kinda basic compared to other teleportation based techniques, Minato's skill at FTG is what makes him dangerous, not solely FTG. Also minato still has SM right? That would boost his combat speed to be superior to GV and boost his already superior reactions on top of having heightened senses.

Even at the start of the battle I doubt it, since he can flip a kunai right before he's hit and go from there.

 

[Smashtwig]

Yeah, he'll try that. If it fails, then onto plan C.

If he hasn't exhausted all of his actually combat relevant techniques and runs out of Chakra that way, sure...?

But via verse equalization he would have chakra.

"Similar supernatural aspects of verses get equalized in a reasonable fashion. So a supernatural energy that almost everyone in a Verse has, which is necessary to fight the characters of said Verse, will be assumed to be the equivalent energy that the opponents use in their techniques so that a proper fight can happen."

Chakra and Septima are VERY DIFFERENT. Chakra is Physical and Spiritual Energy combined of a person's body with a limit to how much said person can have before running out. Septima is NOTHING like that, it's a Psychic power, a cognitive, mental ability, with no limit to how much they have- only unable to use it when they are physically knocked out. They CANNOT be equalized because they are NOT similar in any capacity

He could just think he hasn't hit Minato yet.

Not if he escapes into the forest.

Nope, not only does GV's lightning disperse Smokescreen like things, but even with his Bolt's he can still Flashfield to check if it, y'know... lands? Either way, Minato is interrupted. And since GV's lightning could disperse that crap, he can still follow. Also. Central Park is NOT a forest, FAR, FAR FROM A FOREST. There's not many places to hide, the trees are thin- he's not hiding anywhere

You can't predict where an FTG user will go unless u can read their mind. It has nothing to track.

Because his tactic was to play mind games with Zabuza, which worked.

It depends on how long into the battle he does it.

Minato Spams it, I assume GV isn't stupid enough to not know how it works after observing

Ite, then he'll paralyze him, then seal him instead of attacking him.

Even if this did work, Gunvolt just... doesn't have Chakra, Septima cannot be equalized into it.

And Minato can still use paralysis. Difference is that attack is invisible and impossible to see coming while Minato could just dodge those attacks.

And it's also something he just never uses.

To resist the RDS, you have to do it consciously.

I mean they didn't have a shadow clone use RDS cause it wouldn't work.

Pretty sure the RDS thing is done, the soul of the user must be sealed/destroyed, using Shadow Clones or not.

Come on, u know he's worse at battle strategy than Minato.

I definitely agree, I'm just saying he's not stupid and he can still actually strategize to some degree

Minato's a top notch sensor. If he doesn't see GV, he'll sense for him.

Again, how will he predict it?

FTG has marks, GV just has to get one. Either way, I have to concede on this point, I was only making a hypothetical

You're right, he ain't losing, he's winning.

Unfortunately not like that


Also, you understand if GV has no wincon, this can be considered a stomp right? If GV can't even hit minato, but Minato can apparently just seal the man, yeah, probably a stomp. You said GV had wincons before when Speed is Equalized, what are they? Because he can't hit Minato, so anything involving attacking doesn't work and shouldn't count as one. However, Minato can't hit GV either via Prevasion. It's basically either Incon or Stomp in Minato's favor

 

[Smashtwig]

Also, I didn't want to edit in this part cuz u might miss it... how in tarnation is Minato going to seal an intangible being...? That's like trying to seal Obito while he's in the Kamui Dimension, actually has Minato ever sealed an I N T A N G I B L E guy?

Also, don't think about the time he did the contract seal on Obito, he clearly blitzed him due to the FTG Seal he placed on his back