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This comment instantly reminded me of Batman,lol.
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Shinza Banshou Downgrade
- Thread starter Infera28
- Start date
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I found it weird during my reread, but it's Infera who brought attention to it some hours ago.
Basically the explosion is assumed to have completely nuked all of Berlin.
Besides a random human soldier tanking it nearly at point blank and only being in a dying state from it (which you could chalk as PIS), the others members are litteraly seen scattered in different sections of Berlin after the explosion, fighting troops and talking to citizens.
I don't really care about most weird Shinza things here anymore tho, so don't count on me to actively debate or apply any kind of revision for that kinda stuff.
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I don't mind if we wait for @Pain_to12 to find the time to properly address this thread.
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Can't say I'm familiar with the franchise.
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"If he were to vanish, it would destroy all of darkness and damage the worldly order, creating a void of nothingness that would destroy "all of creation""
Literally in Methuselah's profile, literally debunks the entire revision since it shows without a shadow of a doubt that Meth is not just the concept of darkness of Earth, but the darkness of Mercurious' world/creation
Literally in Methuselah's profile, literally debunks the entire revision since it shows without a shadow of a doubt that Meth is not just the concept of darkness of Earth, but the darkness of Mercurious' world/creation
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PrinceofPein
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That's true, but I think what he meant was that Methuselah's jurisdiction extends to the entirety of Mercurius' creation rather than just some universe
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What do you think about the new evidence @QuasiYuri ?
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It was already countered in the previous thread and when it was added it was agreed to not scale Meth itself.
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it WASN'T countered
also it doesn't matter if the destruction doesn't scale, since the point is that it shows that Methuseah being only the darkness of Earth is complete nonsense
also it doesn't matter if the destruction doesn't scale, since the point is that it shows that Methuseah being only the darkness of Earth is complete nonsense
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Wouldn't change anything since his tier is based on "density" being misinterpreted.
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Please elaborate.
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Basically the only thing that gives him his current tier both in AP and durability (besides environnemental destruction, which I'll come back to later) is that a single "night" (since Methuselah is powered by the history of night and darkness) supposedly "requires the destruction of half of the planet" according to his profile.
However the actual quote only says that "A single night was as large as half the world"; since half of the world is always in darkness/night. Nowhere does it say you actually need to destroy half
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Another quote on the same screen is "His scale was too vaste, his history too dense", which some tried to use to say that it referred to the density of half the planet.
However this second one clearly talks about the density of his history, not of a physical object. One's history can influence their power under the 4th Heaven, with Rot Spinne's Yetzirah being pretty weak because the Warsaw Ghetto massacre isn't that old nor that famous; while everyone has belief about darkness and knows it since ages.
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Regarding the "all of creation" thing it kind of clashes with the others descriptions of his darkness, which clearly puts its duality with light over the planet as a main focus.
And when you look at the statement itself, what it talks about isn't that Methuselah's demise would make all creation "return to nothingness", but that Machina's philosophy is that since everything will eventually reach an end, he doesn't care about ending stuff, regardless of the harm done.
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Something half the size of the world is still Low 5-B
Considering it says that litterally before talking about a single night, yes, yes it's the same thing
Spiritual density is a measure of power, see every LDO and hadou/gadou god ever
It being able to be influenced by outside sources doesn't make it any less power
tbf, Earth is center of the plot both in-universe and out-of-universe of 4th heaven stuff, so it makes sense that role has more emphasis put unto it
also
"Since all of creation would return to nothingness, he had no qualms about creating that void, and that was the very reason why he was the Transcendence of the ending."
Doesn't really sound much philosophy as much as meaning that "that void" created by deleting darkness would cause "return to nothingness" but since it would still happen it doesn't bother Machina.
also of note, "Worldly Order" could very much be referring to Mercurious' world as a whole since Masada use "world" it like that more than a bunch
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The night isn't a Low 5-B object no.
Assumption based on nothing.
Still not referring to an actual physical density.
"Could". That's the issue. You theorise it means this in a context not quite fitting.
I read it more as Machina not caring whether the world ends or not, with the void referring to the nature of his power rather than Meth himself.
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There is literally nothing to prove that those "nights" have the same density as the planet as far I am seeing here.
It's like comparing a car-sized ballon to an actual car and claiming the former the same mass and density.
Night" is not a physical object, it's beyond me how you think Night is the same the planet.
What does that have to do with anything?
Again those quotes talk about the voids left by Meth dying, not Meht's actual power.
Y'all fail to bring one direct quote about Meth and his power and his to wordplay around it instead.
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literally said to be as large as half the world
basic reading comprehension, ever heard of it ?
And ?
Said could because i'm not very certain on that one specifically
Don't try to put words in my mouth
if there it ment any void created by Deus Ex then it would have said "the void", not "that" void. The wording is towards a void in specific, aka the one left by darkness being erased.
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I think the op tries to refute this by saying that it’s only due to nights enveloping half the world in darkness, as much as I disagree with that interpretation
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Darkness isn’t the size of half the planet. That isn’t at all true
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It does covers half of the planet when you take it on that scale.
Like real night n stuff.
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Disagree, but yeah that’s just semantics
PrinceofPein
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well picking semantics no
PrinceofPein
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aside that taking his entire concepts literally
you will have well him being the multiverse concept of darkness, well most of the universe is darkness it self (outer space)
and well his durability and reinhard is what i plan on arguing for fully, his AP should be possibly to begin with as there are many intepretation of what it is, but his durability should have been well 2A
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That seems as wanky as it sounds, especially with the scans presented and the context in the VN.
PrinceofPein
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if it is required to destroy all of the nights in merc's world to harm him, how is that wank? it was stated multiple times that you either need to bring him to your level or well destroy all the nights to harm him
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Except the nights aren't multiversal or anything. They just are the litteral Earth's nights.
PrinceofPein
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just earth's night all the universe night?
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Everything about Meth embodying nights, darkness covering half of the world, etc... is deeply tied to the concept of darkness in relation to Earth and the people on it.
PrinceofPein
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this is well cause they are on earth and the only place it is confirmed people live in merc's world. i am saying meth is the darkness of the universe as stated
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Sure, find a scan of a night being universal.
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I don’t think me meant that lol
PrinceofPein
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Sigh
he was the concept of darkness, not concept of earth's darkness
and yes darkness exists everywhere in the universe earth included, hence why him dying would cause the end of the universe
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If that were the case, then Reinhard would be 2A, no?
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Except the entire thing blatantly tells us that him moving the darkness as consequence of his actions would only affect Earth.
The only proof so far is about Machina's mindset and a single "all creation" statement which isn't fitting with multiversal shitz in context.
PrinceofPein
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you mean the saying machina erasing meth wont end just meth but all of darkness across creation cause well he is all of the darkness across creation?
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Pretty sure that’s not true as even methuselah comments that there a lot of bad stuff would happen if methuselah was destroyed
