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walter can use it with prep time to create fulminated mercury, phosphine gas, or some other chemistry shit. either that or he can just run them over, which would add yet another rating to his attack potency section
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Walter White Revisions
- Thread starter BigSmoke4269
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unless the fight takes place in gus fring's superlab, i can't see how else walt would obtain the proper equipment to really make anything.
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******* lolThey gave that mf water manip for owning a cooler
Colonel_Krukov
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This reminds me of the Imposters crappy Social Influencing reasoning "Can lie"
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Back when people said the Impostor could "befriend" somebody in the middle of a battle
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He had all the equipment in his house to make the bomb to blow up Gus. Though I suppose he told Jessie to get him all the items he needed since Walter seemed too scared to leave his house at that time. Really it depends if a fight gives Walter the ability to go to any store to get the stuff he needs.
Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E
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They gave that mf water manip for owning a cooler
Bro what XD??? Look I apologize for being late but you're joking, you have to be jesting me... like, does having a grill instantly makes me have Heat Manipulation??
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As it turns out I am not jesting. The Wimpy Kid profiles were something else for sure
Bro what XD??? Look I apologize for being late but you're joking, you have to be jesting me... like, does having a grill instantly makes me have Heat Manipulation??
Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E
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Oh... Well that explains a lot...
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i'm pretty sure there's a difference between making a homemade bomb and making fulminated mercury
Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E
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What got me really interested was the one you mentioned Señor White under Prep can create an 8-A bomb?
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I didn't say there wasn't a difference, I wasn't commenting on fulminated mercury.
You said "anything". I'm just saying Walter could make something.
Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E
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When he's under threat doesn't he literally intricately plan in C4-ing his enemies? (Under Prep of course).
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I don't remember Walter making a bomb to kill anyone other than Gus. He mostly goes for poisons first. The thing about the Gus situation is that he already gave the ricin to Saul, so Walter couldn't use that without Jessie finding out and it would ruin his whole plan. Also Walter wanted to kill Gus as soon as possible and not wait days for the poison to kick in on Gus, so he was pressured and kinda forced into using a bomb.
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ricin isn't combat applicable though, it takes too long for walt to use it in combat (unless he manages to run and hide for like a day, which isn't allowed according to sba)
Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E
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Hop agrees the corrections to stamina. After recently seeing the show, there is never a concern of Walt's physical shape when exerting himself. "Coughing fits" sounds like a convenient nerf for someone who wasn't paying attention to him. Even post-surgery, Walt is walking, carrying things when making meth, running up and down stairs or in and out of cars without issue. Really, his age is a worse detriment to him than his cancer. And he often comes out half-decent from non-lethal combat engagements.
An example to strengthen OP's case:
Breathing hard for a short time and lightly bleeding, yes, but not even KO'd by his BIL Hank, whos a veteran DEA agent in active duty. He basically let the punch knock him down so he could play victim. However the moment he's caught, his headspace changes and nothing involving the cancer comes up in the fight. Barely a minute after that and brief struggle to his feet, he's not tired, he's acting his emotional manipulation. His physical well being wasn't in danger as much as it seems due to cancer, its just his way of using others and also justifying his actions. Yes, its lung cancer, but he's not a smoker, he is a chemist, likely where it came from (he is a chem teacher and worked for a company involving research before the show starts). It's a plot contrivance, not a realistic weakness.
As for the other parts, wait on a calc.
The RV is barely past a couple seasons in the show and it got beat up. It's old and while the van itself is 9-B if you ran it into something at full load, the lab isn't more useful without the resources. His lab under Gus was far superior in all ways (hence the meth production output increasing).
An example to strengthen OP's case:
Breathing hard for a short time and lightly bleeding, yes, but not even KO'd by his BIL Hank, whos a veteran DEA agent in active duty. He basically let the punch knock him down so he could play victim. However the moment he's caught, his headspace changes and nothing involving the cancer comes up in the fight. Barely a minute after that and brief struggle to his feet, he's not tired, he's acting his emotional manipulation. His physical well being wasn't in danger as much as it seems due to cancer, its just his way of using others and also justifying his actions. Yes, its lung cancer, but he's not a smoker, he is a chemist, likely where it came from (he is a chem teacher and worked for a company involving research before the show starts). It's a plot contrivance, not a realistic weakness.
As for the other parts, wait on a calc.
The RV is barely past a couple seasons in the show and it got beat up. It's old and while the van itself is 9-B if you ran it into something at full load, the lab isn't more useful without the resources. His lab under Gus was far superior in all ways (hence the meth production output increasing).
Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E
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That is a potential problem. But surely there are cases where he utilizes those Bomberman inventory to great use I mean his IQ described him as that and his skewed morality overtime has him take more aggressive approaches from what I recall.
Oof, not a bad move but something more of assertive action would have made him stand out even more. More so from the following:
Yeah that's a problem since from what I'm getting at is despite ingeniously tinkering with various hazardous chemicals, Walt's posion hacks are not potent?
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walt's poisons are quite potent, but they take too long to be combat applicable.
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- #61
that's, like, half the show. also i'm putting it as optional equipment
yeah but it's not like walt could just carry gus's entire meth lab around with him. so the rv would be helpful if he was fighting outside of the superlab
Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E
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Yeah... a bit of an Oof. But surely he can put acid or demolition to use as it's stated in IQ, from what I remember is that the guy can go for a plan like that.
Yeah optionally makes sense I guess.
So depending on what place battle may take place?
Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E
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I mean what Walter may lack in physicals, his whole thing is that he apparently Brain Blasts the shit out of household stuff which I gotta admit that is astonshing and really want to see him actually put it to use in battle... As it's stated as well that he does. (
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In what world is "it's more helpful" giving something they very rarely use an optional equipment? Sure, its not "standard" but having it at the ready, with supplies, just because? The RV was in the show because they were broke, yes RV's IRL aren't cheap, but they bought a beater in Jesse's name (remember Hank came to his "personal abode and couldn't trespass without a warrant") to be discrete, yes, but also more importantly disconnected from Walter White, as much as possible. Walt was clearly willing to throw Jesse (or any of his partners) under the bus to not get caught this early on in the show, when it was mostly about his family and cancer. Further, it's not a place they could survive in at all. Remember how it got them stranded? Pure sheer luck they lived to fight another day? It's unreliable (like the Millennium Falcon from Star Wars), and that's clearly being ignored here.
Put it this way, the RV existed to have a mobile lab so they could not be caught easily, even under their street names (Heisenberg / Cap'n Cook, etc). It was not so they can make meth as often as possible or have things "at the ready". Another point, but "halfway" through the show is not incorrect, but it is not used in every episode, nor was it the only time and place they cooked. Making it just "optional" equipment wouldn't be wank, sure, that's not the point, but it's highly out of place in the context of the series and only serves to benefit him in a VS situation, which hits Hop as possibly biased. Can't agree with it at all being on the page for him.
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i feel like i'm missing the point here, but i'll try responding anyways.
i'm pretty sure walt and jesse use it for all of their cooking sessions from late season one to early season 3. so i wouldn't say he rarely uses it.
so...are you saying jesse should get it instead?
what does this have to do with anything? this is the vs battles wiki, not the survivalist index wiki. just because he can't use it as a ******* house doesn't mean it can't be listed as equipment.
so, because cooking meth wasn't its only purpose (even though it's all they really did in there), that means that saying walt would use it for chemistry is automatically incorrect? again, i'm not seeing your point here at all. this isn't even theoretically what he'd do with it in a vs situation, it's just what he uses it for. iirc all of the dangerous shit he makes pre-season 3 is made in the rv, excluding the ricin.
i know. that's why i'd put it as optional equipment, instead of standard equipment.
uhhh...if it didn't serve to benefit him in a vs situation, why would i even be talking about it? why would i list something that's irrelevant to vs situations on the vs battles wiki? it can only be added to the profile because it's relevant to vs situations, so i don't understand how that serves to help your case here.
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bump
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I feel like adding it as optional equipment should be okay.
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i'll hold off for now because hop opposes it. if i end up seeing more support for the rv as optional equipment, then i'll add it.
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imo a series like breaking bad deserves better representation than it currently has on this wiki, like a profile for mike ehrmantraut would be nice
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also as i said before, 9-C huell profile is too based to handle
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No, that's contradictory. It should not be present on the profile in Hop's opinion, period. Neither of the characters use it in the way we're implying it "could be used" in the context we use it here of VSBW. Another point, before it's brought up, Jesse and Walt fled to it because they were doing what they could while evading Hank to hide evidence, not to use its contents or protect himself via the vehicle.
For context, reference or proof:
You literally misunderstood the point. Not saying "because its valid it can't be here" no, Hop is really trying to say:
You seem like you want to make Walter's profile better because there's a sensed intent of wank, and to help do that, you're adding this "optional" equipment. Here's the thing. When it's convenient for a VS Battle, in order to add a win, most people are going to wank by adding optional equipment out the ass. Once it's on the page, it looks like its fair game. Everyone will use it, and Wins/Losses aren't (unfortunately) invalid cuz the thread involved "optional" equipment, which let's argue, could make or break the fight for a certain character.
Continuing to further Hop's previous point again:
It belongs to Walt and Jesse. Context and the purpose of the vehicle as a literal plot device, and its lack of readily appraent benefits to the characters it involves is pretty scarce. Put it this way, not this this is the central idea Hop's point hinges on, if you couldn't put the ol' RV on its own page and slap conclusive, provable things it can do (say like the Millennium Falcon, where its capabilities are clear, understood, proven via feats, sources and such (and not the continued assumption the RV contains everything under the sun needed to gas, poison, nuke or whatever you believe Walt/Jesse would use it for in a VS Battle). The RV is not at the ready for anything, other than being a room on wheels separate from the outside world where the guys can cook in private.
BTW, being in "half" the show, when it was barely present at all times, let alone anywhere near where Walter's day jobs were, is still asinine. The amount of time it exists in the series =/= the availability the character should have to it. What next? Gohan gets a sensu bean as optional equipment because he ate one once or twice, or become a great ape just cuz he used to have a tail? Or maybe Han Solo should get Luke's lightsaber as optional equipment because he held it for moments during Episode V? If its barely, especially RARELY present, it can't be used as optional either in Hop's own opinion. It's an asspull be any other name. That is Hop's reasoning.
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Hop needed to provide evidence/an example that the RV is mainly for cooking meth, and is generally useless when push comes to shove in the show. This is literally proof as to when. To Hop, adding it to embellish its ability to "enhance" what Walter can do with it, is wank. It's not even the last time it's seen in the series (close to it, it's destroyed later that episode). Goes to show how much it doesn't help. Also no one (Walt/Jesse) ever runs to it in their time of need. Nor does it contain what it needs to make any poisons, chem bombs, etc (not that they'd matter much anyway, the stuff Walt is shown to know to make isn't fast acting, anyone could KO him in a VS match be the time the poison takes hold, ie the ricin)
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BTW, being in "half" the show, when it was barely present at all times, let alone anywhere near where Walter's day jobs were, is still asinine. The amount of time it exists in the series =/= the availability the character should have to it. What next? Gohan gets a sensu bean as optional equipment because he ate one once or twice, or become a great ape just cuz he used to have a tail? Or maybe Han Solo should get Luke's lightsaber as optional equipment because he held it for moments during Episode V? If its barely, especially RARELY present, it can't be used as optional either in Hop's own opinion. It's an asspull be any other name. That is Hop's reasoning.
To go through your examples:
If a scientist makes a gadget for one episode, that should count as optional equipment. If a character brings out a weapon in one fight and uses it, but never uses it again, that should count as optional equipment. I'd be against including, say, a blade they got handed to look at which they returned a few seconds later in that scene.
Obviously there shouldn't be anything contradictory involving it, there should be a point in time in the series where you could teleport that character from wherever they are to the battlefield for it to be a valid matchup, imo. So if a character stole someone's gun in S1E3, returned it in S1E5, and then got given a bomb in S2E4 which they used later in S3E2, you shouldn't be able to make a match where they have the gun and the bomb.
To return it to the topic of this thread, I think Walter should have stuff like an RV and the ricin poison listed as optional equipment, but they should not be able to be combined in a way that doesn't line up canonically.
To go through your examples:
- Should Gohan have a sensu bean because he ate one once or twice?
- I don't think he ever owns a sensu bean or keeps it on him. So I'd say no, just eating something wouldn't make it optional equipment.
- Should Gohan optionally be able to become a great ape because he used to have a tail?
- That capability is no longer a thing. If there was a key before his tail was cut off, and we knew he could turn into a great ape then and could tier it, I'd be fine with including it.
- Should Han Solo get Luke's lightsaber because he held it for moments?
- No because that doesn't demonstrate the capacity to wield it.
If a scientist makes a gadget for one episode, that should count as optional equipment. If a character brings out a weapon in one fight and uses it, but never uses it again, that should count as optional equipment. I'd be against including, say, a blade they got handed to look at which they returned a few seconds later in that scene.
Obviously there shouldn't be anything contradictory involving it, there should be a point in time in the series where you could teleport that character from wherever they are to the battlefield for it to be a valid matchup, imo. So if a character stole someone's gun in S1E3, returned it in S1E5, and then got given a bomb in S2E4 which they used later in S3E2, you shouldn't be able to make a match where they have the gun and the bomb.
To return it to the topic of this thread, I think Walter should have stuff like an RV and the ricin poison listed as optional equipment, but they should not be able to be combined in a way that doesn't line up canonically.
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Hop agrees with that, these examples do not currently exist on the wiki, but they serve to illustrate a point of when saying something is "optional" goes beyond the range of what the wiki is trying to depict accurately.
Correct, that is something Hop tried to explain as well. Walter, say, by the time he is deep into Season 5 (with his Chrysler 300, the car that OP mentioned he should have, which is fine), should have his car, but not the RV, nor the lab. Neither existed by that point in the show. Same with other things, he poisoned (no spoilers) someone with the ricin, but wasn't in ownership of the car nor the RV.
Contradictions in the span of time in the series isn't what Hop was worried about, but there should be clarity on pages for when optional equipment is just part of the story being told, and when it applies and how it applies. Not a VS match excuse to toss "oh if he has that, he can make a BOMB out of nowhere and kill the guy! cuz prep time!" when literally wtf was to point of the matchup, just to set up a scenario (where something like Walt using the RV to make a bomb, which it literally has never head the ability to do, just make gas in a pinch, or cook meth) where Walter be more likely to win.
If added, which it shouldn't be in Hop's opinion, the RV's capability should clearly be "can cook meth, with prep time, can make gas, calcing its AP using the IRL vehicle for reference, etc" is all sensible and fine. If you want to add it without the chance someone is gonna drop it in a VS match and say "but walt has RV, he can make ____" when there is a burden of proof that he can't, maybe a page describing the vehicle and what is does/allows characters to do with it should be added first, to prevent this. Not saying wank and misunderstood expectations of things run rampant on the wiki or anything like that, but Hop believes keeping it from happening as a result of the CRT would be most ideal.
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walt had access to ricin for most of the show, though, didn't he? i'm pretty sure he just didn't use it successfully until long after the rv was destroyed. he still had it in his possession when the rv was around, though, and at that point in time he would be capable of using it.
when i said "walter's optional equipment should have a detailed section of its own", i meant that each piece of equipment would be described. so the rv would have a bullet point describing what walter used it for. meanwhile, the attack potency calculation would be listed in walter's attack potency section (although i'm not sure how i'd find the speed and weight of the real vehicle).
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There is no direct proof of the idea he can essentially call upon it whenever he wishes, he still needs material and prep time to ready it. He likely sources it before making it, as he killed off SEVERAL other characters in the show without that even being a viable option, not because it wouldn't work (remember, if he COULD make ricin whenever, why didn't he just poison Crazy-8 instead of choking him to death and risking his own injury). What he (wanted to) used on Tuco was entirely different, not ricin. Can't think of many other people he'd used it on. Other than maybe Gale. Even then it'd be very suspect, as Gale was competition for only one person smart enough to poison him (refer to season 4).
And it also wouldn't act fast enough to help in a VS context unless he flees and takes cover until the opponent dies, or gets themselves an antidote (ricin is treatable).
The make and model of the RV is a real vehicle (The Fleetwood Bounder) which the manufacturer provides (by real life law) all the weights for its many configurations. If you're curious, the Breaking Bad wiki lists reliable sources for all the information we need outside what the manufacturer states.
Here: https://breakingbad.fandom.com/wiki/1986_Fleetwood_Bounder
It's in poor shape, Jesse notes he worried it'd break down at every stop light. Implying it's very unlikely they'd choose to retreat to it or use it for anything other than cooking (that was the whole point of Walt and Jesse getting it, besides being a mobile lab where they can dispose of its evidence quickly).
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