Zen-Oh downgrade (DBS CRT)

[Vietthai96]

What I meant is that it’s highly unlikely that Zeno was around for so long without learning about ki. He even seems to be able to notice and understand it in the top.

that is........................a very huge assumption

 

[Tarang123]

that is........................a very huge assumption

Idk, Zeno seems to understand to an extent how ki works, it would be a little weird if the king of all didn’t know how to use ki

 

[VegetaFan756]

I mean he still does scale to erasing-
What was his name again?
I’m talking about the Universe 6 Frieza.
Anyway, Zeno erased Universe 6 Frieza out of existence before he had a chance to fire a shot at Frieza, who also scales to 100% Frieza. Technically he currently was in Final Form, but that’s still really high.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

frost is his name
also man I'm really annoyed by this "AP of erasing things" bullshit but I don't feel like getting caught up in some staff thread so imma just leave this alone
fact remains, zeno watched the tournament of power happen, so his reactions likely scale to MUI goku of course
but his attack and combat speed remain completely unknown for now

 

[VegetaFan756]

Frost, right. Also yeah, AP ≠ EE. For instance, I’m a normal human and let’s say I gained the ability to erase objects from existence. That doesn’t mean I’m physically as strong as the toughest thing I can erase.
It’s also my personal headcanon that in a fight between basically any DB character and Zeno, Zeno couldn’t dodge the punch in time, bounce back and forth like a rubber ball, then start crying until he throws a tantrum and erases their entire universe.

 

[EmilioRory10]

frost is his name
also man I'm really annoyed by this "AP of erasing things" bullshit but I don't feel like getting caught up in some staff thread so imma just leave this alone
fact remains, zeno watched the tournament of power happen, so his reactions likely scale to MUI goku of course
but his attack and combat speed remain completely unknown for now

Idk about MUI Goku, he already had that iPad type thing to slow down the fight which he got on Dyspo vs Hit and Jiren, he should scale to every fight that happened before that in the Tournament and should also scale to SSBKKX10 Goku and Hit from U6 arc

 

[Tarang123]

Frost, right. Also yeah, AP ≠ EE. For instance, I’m a normal human and let’s say I gained the ability to erase objects from existence. That doesn’t mean I’m physically as strong as the toughest thing I can erase.
It’s also my personal headcanon that in a fight between basically any DB character and Zeno, Zeno couldn’t dodge the punch in time, bounce back and forth like a rubber ball, then start crying until he throws a tantrum and erases their entire universe.

Issue is that Zeno is consistently considered to being someone who is just unfathomably above everyone else. Simply having something like hakai, which is still ki-based doesn’t remove those statements

 

[Nullflowerblush]

since when was the hakai ki-based

 

[Tarang123]

since when was the hakai ki-based

Hakai was always a type of ki from what I remember

 

[LeSupremeKing1]

1. Oh, it is your interpretation then, but well his EE hax did above everyone else
2. So the entire dyspo character is an outlier then, but if we talk in your opinion, then there are a very consistently outlier in the entire ToP arc, thus not make it outlier anymore, as he consistently have higher speed than Frieza, Goku both in SSG and SSB, and Hit. There are two, possibly three person he not above is. Zeno on the other hand almost featless
3. Instant can be infinite, especially we don't even see a projectile or a spreading omnidirectional blast

1. Wym interpretation there’s literally no other interpretation, it directly says his strength is greater than anyone elses.
2. I’m saying aside from the one dyspo thing, we see him easily able to react to literally everyone else in the tournament of power including but not limited to people who scale above dyspo’s speed, consistently. So yeah I think, unless Zeno is some illogical being whose reaction time drops and rises randomly, I think we would go with the most consistent interpretation that his reaction time does not cap out there.
3.
.
a very short space of time; a moment.
Yeah unless they make it clear instant=0 time, I would never say or assume it means infinite speed or gets them anywhere.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Uh, where is infinite speed coming from?

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Uh, where is infinite speed coming from?

nowhere, and none of the zeno discussions I have been in have made sense

 

[KLOL506]

There was no energy blast involved. The light that emanates from his hands have nothing to do with the existence erasing. When Zen-Oh erased the future world and the other universes during the tournament, the light never touched them. The light is just there to signify that he is, indeed, going to erase something. Nothing expanded across the Multiverse. Zen-Oh just collectively removed the timeline from existence; he just has Multiversal range.

I see.

 

[Tarang123]

Uh, where is infinite speed coming from?

perfect logic with no flaws whatsoever

In all seriousness, it's going off the notion that Zeno's EE is truly instantaneous, which would grant an infinite speed rating. As you can see, it's pretty flawed

 

[Vietthai96]

If it is a projectile or a spreqding blast, etc....instantaneous is not enough, but no his EE is not even projectile or a blast that speed up and travel through a distance, mean 0 distance require to to travel = teleportation attack = infinite. So no that why i said we don't calc hax to give speed rating

 

[Tarang123]

If it is a projectile or a spreqding blast, etc....instantaneous is not enough, but no his EE is not even projectile or a blast that speed up and travel through a distance, mean 0 distance require to to travel = teleportation attack = infinite. So no that why i said we don't calc hax to give speed rating

yeah, but there definitely is a time-frame for the destruction for every universe that he destroys. It just doesn't seem that way, hence why the infinite speed stuff still doesn't work

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Zeno's attack is not a projectile, it's not applicable for speed, if it was then it would probably apply for immeasurable speed.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

This debate is dumb just give zeno the reaction speeds and unknown other speeds and leave it alone
He just erases things instantly and we have no idea what the mechanics of it are and figuring it out is a waste of time

 

[Vizer04]

What's even the point of this debate? Just give him an unknown rating and move on...

 

[Vietthai96]

cuz a guy want to calc his hax speed when he erase Infinite Zamasu

 

[Hasty12345]

I agree with immeasurable attack speed for Zeno.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I agree with immeasurable attack speed for Zeno.

Zeno’s Erase reached Infinite Zamasu when he leaked into the past ovo

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Zeno’s Erase reached Infinite Zamasu when he leaked into the past ovo

Zeno’s attack takes a negative amount of time to happen so he gets whatever the **** is past immeasurable

 

[Teezar]

Can this derailing end.

 

[Vizer04]

Can this derailing end.

No

 

[ZillertheBucko]

No

Power move