PvZ Intelligence Downgrade

[StarShooter80]

Checked out the new intelligence ratings for Peashooter and its um

Intelligence: Average (Plants are capable of talking and interact like normal person) | Gifted | Gifted | Average | Gifted to Supergenius (The plants can keep up with other plants skilled ninjas in martial arts (on top of being trained by them) with each plant in gw2 getting crazy Dave anti-karate training with them on multiple different occasions fighting and defeating zen sensei which is an martial artist master with him even having an army of karate zombies backing him up with the plants defeating multiple ninja zombies (in pvz heroes) with Bony Chog being boxers that Mastered Bonk Choyu Ninjits (which zombie heroes bosses or even regular zombies can fight) and the plants were also trained by Patrice who is skilled in over 252] different martials arts with some zombies (like the gargtanuar) are able to fight to even beat her (despite the fact she can beat dozens of zombies including gargtanuars in combat) with plants like cactus having Academy training and being masters in disguise with other plants being silent skilled killers or learning/adapting to other plant strategies and on top of mastering the infinity mechs near instantly (while also using it for the first time without any training against the gnomes and zombies who zomboss trained after multiple battles with the gnomes in infinity time) while they also have been fighting against the undead ever since they were born and This isn’t even getting into the plants being rather experienced in war and peashooters having military experience against zombies that are trained and experience in countering the plants fighting styles and even fighting against them for long periods of time like for example zomboss future self with his future army still being at war with the plants 1000 years into the future. And the plants can also beat imps in hand to hand combat which on average are skilled in multiple different martial arts and other zombies that are known to be skilled swordsman and massively skilled zombies in the Air Force (in air raid) and ofc other skilled experience martial artists with foot soldier and his variants being trained in all parts of the military to counter plants or fight in environments like Antarctica and foot soldiers like general supremo winning a battle between the plants by himself via creating battle plans on spot in real time while fighting in war beating the smash which is an skilled experience wrestler including zombies that can predict the future and warn themselves of any possible move made by the plants.)

Incoherent, and really wrong, as for why there's a lot of wrong stuff here:

Spoiler

The plants can keep up with other plants skilled ninjas in martial arts (on top of being trained by them)

With what examples exactly, and why are we going ahead with apply other feats of combat on top of this. Also just because a plant has been shown briefly training with Nightcap in one comic scene that does not mean by default are they a gifted martial artist, let alone scale to the same feats.

With each plant in gw2 getting crazy Dave anti-karate training with them on multiple different occasions fighting and defeating zen sensei which is an martial artist master with him even having an army of karate zombies backing him up with the plants defeating multiple ninja zombies (in pvz heroes)

The scan for the Zen Sensei being a master martial artist just seems like a . And the anti-karate scan should only be added for the playable plants and not just all of them generally. The plants being able to defeat these karate zombies is not impressive, they don't have any feats or statements on their own outside of just blatantly being able to fight properly in contrast to regular zombies.

with Bony Chog being boxers that Mastered Bonk Choyu Ninjits (which zombie heroes bosses or even regular zombies can fight)

The basic zombies normally got overpowered and only eventually defeat him in numbers and the heroes/bosses are already vastly stronger, he also has the weakness of being immobile in a pot.

and the plants were also trained by Patrice who is skilled in over 252] different martials arts with some zombies (like the gargtanuar) are able to fight to even beat her

This scan is from a PvZ3 beta release that can be due to change anytime in the near future, until the actual game releases we should abstain from using any scan from soft launches.

with plants like cactus having Academy training and being masters in disguise with other plants being silent skilled killers or learning/adapting to other plant strategies

This isn’t even getting into the plants being rather experienced in war and peashooters having military experience against zombies that are trained and experience in countering the plants fighting styles and even fighting against them for long periods of time

These intelligence feats should just be self-contained for these characters its referring to, and not just added to the other ones straight up.

and on top of mastering the infinity mechs near instantly (while also using it for the first time without any training against the gnomes and zombies who zomboss trained after multiple battles with the gnomes in infinity time)

Do we ever get an elaboration on the infinity mechs being complex machines to pilot and utilize ever? And the second zomboss quote is just a general one he says whenever he's loosing in any match during a shooter game.

while they also have been fighting against the undead ever since they were born

Do we know if any of these plants have been around since the start of time and remain present? The only ones that come to mind are the primal plants that were literally taken from the past to present via time travel.

like for example zomboss future self with his future army still being at war with the plants 1000 years into the future

Do we know at all who in either army has still been part of this war for all of these thousands of years in the future since the start of it?

And the plants can also beat imps in hand to hand combat which on average are skilled in multiple different martial arts

The majority of these plants do not fight imps in hand to hand combat and are mostly canon fodder on a physical level anyways for them.

and other zombies that are known to be skilled swordsman

The first one is just about the bucket head zombie from the dark ages joining the army, nothing about receiving training of any sort for it. The second one is fine but it's a PVZ2C scan which I'll cover in a later bit.

with foot soldier and his variants being trained in all parts of the military to counter plants or fight in environments like Antarctica and foot soldiers like general supremo winning a battle between the plants by himself via creating battle plans on spot in real time while fighting in war

Where in that scan is it stated that the Soldiers are trained in all parts o the military because I can't find a scan for that at all. No where is it implied that General Supremo won a battle by himself, just that he did more likely from just leading it. And again I don't see why the plants would have to scale directly to characters like General Supremo for his strategic skills in leading a warfare, as that doesn't then correlate to his own fighting skills by himself.

beating the smash which is an skilled experience wrestler including zombies that can predict the future and warn themselves of any possible move made by the plants

How is him being a skilled wrestler then upscale him from feats like that by other zombies? And when are those feats that the zombies make replicated at all?

As for it being incoherent, it just seems like it moves to the next point immediately after the previous one and sometimes acts like there's a correlation between points when there isn't, many scans just link to quotes used on the wiki page and not actual scans from the games themselves, and the major lack of references too, it's just a real mess. And none of these even remotely close to a Supergenius rating.

Even if this was undisputedly correct revision in some form, the way it is formatted and layed-out is entirely unacceptable per our standards. I also noticed that only Peashooter has these justifications written down, the other profiles just have supergenius but with their same justifications are before.

Onwards is using PvZ2C as a canonical source, which I cannot stress enough on how wrong that is. The only thing suggesting that it is canon is because of other chinese games (that are actually developed by Popcap, unlike PvZ2C) having references or other implications that are canonical, which of course doesn't suddenly give the green light for every other chinese PvZ game to be used for canon material. We even have Paul Tobin going out of his way to say that he considers the PvZ2C games separate. The only ever time a piece of PvZ2C material has made its way into canon, was an original plant making a one-panel appearance, that's literally it.

---

And that's about it, my only change I'm proposing with this CRT is reversing the changes down by this one, which I've expressed at to why it's flawed throughout.

This verse is having a major issue with many revisions being passed where edits are faulty, justifications are incoherent or improper, extremely bloated, and most of all zero references used, so I just want to advise that any mod not experienced with the verse to be more strict on revisions for it.

(only counting staff)

Agree: FinePoint, Just a Random Butler

Disagree:

Neutral:

 

[AyOgUyS]

OP makes sense to me, the intelligence ratings should be reworked.

 

[Plants_vs_zombies_fan101]

Checked out the new intelligence ratings for Peashooter and its um

Incoherent, and really wrong, as for why there's a lot of wrong stuff here:

Spoiler

With what examples exactly, and why are we going ahead with apply other feats of combat on top of this. Also just because a plant has been shown briefly training with Nightcap in one comic scene that does not mean by default are they a gifted martial artist, let alone scale to the same feats.

The scan for the Zen Sensei being a master martial artist just seems like a . And the anti-karate scan should only be added for the playable plants and not just all of them generally. The plants being able to defeat these karate zombies is not impressive, they don't have any feats or statements on their own outside of just blatantly being able to fight properly in contrast to regular zombies.

The basic zombies normally got overpowered and only eventually defeat him in numbers and the heroes/bosses are already vastly stronger, he also has the weakness of being immobile in a pot.

This scan is from a PvZ3 beta release that can be due to change anytime in the near future, until the actual game releases we should abstain from using any scan from soft launches.


These intelligence feats should just be self-contained for these characters its referring to, and not just added to the other ones straight up.

Do we ever get an elaboration on the infinity mechs being complex machines to pilot and utilize ever? And the second zomboss quote is just a general one he says whenever he's loosing in any match during a shooter game.

Do we know if any of these plants have been around since the start of time and remain present? The only ones that come to mind are the primal plants that were literally taken from the past to present via time travel.

Do we know at all who in either army has still been part of this war for all of these thousands of years in the future since the start of it?

The majority of these plants do not fight imps in hand to hand combat and are mostly canon fodder on a physical level anyways for them.

The first one is just about the bucket head zombie from the dark ages joining the army, nothing about receiving training of any sort for it. The second one is fine but it's a PVZ2C scan which I'll cover in a later bit.

Where in that scan is it stated that the Soldiers are trained in all parts o the military because I can't find a scan for that at all. No where is it implied that General Supremo won a battle by himself, just that he did more likely from just leading it. And again I don't see why the plants would have to scale directly to characters like General Supremo for his strategic skills in leading a warfare, as that doesn't then correlate to his own fighting skills by himself.

How is him being a skilled wrestler then upscale him from feats like that by other zombies? And when are those feats that the zombies make replicated at all?

As for it being incoherent, it just seems like it moves to the next point immediately after the previous one and sometimes acts like there's a correlation between points when there isn't, many scans just link to quotes used on the wiki page and not actual scans from the games themselves, and the major lack of references too, it's just a real mess. And none of these even remotely close to a Supergenius rating.

Even if this was undisputedly correct revision in some form, the way it is formatted and layed-out is entirely unacceptable per our standards. I also noticed that only Peashooter has these justifications written down, the other profiles just have supergenius but with their same justifications are before.

Onwards is using PvZ2C as a canonical source, which I cannot stress enough on how wrong that is. The only thing suggesting that it is canon is because of other chinese games (that are actually developed by Popcap, unlike PvZ2C) having references or other implications that are canonical, which of course doesn't suddenly give the green light for every other chinese PvZ game to be used for canon material. We even have Paul Tobin going out of his way to say that he considers the PvZ2C games separate. The only ever time a piece of PvZ2C material has made its way into canon, was an original plant making a one-panel appearance, that's literally it.

---

And that's about it, my only change I'm proposing with this CRT is reversing the changes down by this one, which I've expressed at to why it's flawed throughout.

This verse is having a major issue with many revisions being passed where edits are faulty, justifications are incoherent or improper, extremely bloated, and most of all zero references used, so I just want to advise that any mod not experienced with the verse to be more strict on revisions for it.

I asked one of supporters to help me but I didn't think he would mess it up this badly so should we just rather reset peashooter profile back to it usual state and allow me to just make the changes(as i don't think anyone else wants to)

 

[Plants_vs_zombies_fan101]

(Like I wrote down that pvz2c wasn't even accepted as being canon and that only extraordinary genius was accepted) but whatever

 

[StarShooter80]

(Like I wrote down that pvz2c wasn't even accepted as being canon and that only extraordinary genius was accepted) but whatever

That's a shame, but I still disagree with how the other non-PvZ2C scans are utilised/justified with.

 

[Plants_vs_zombies_fan101]

With what examples exactly, and why are we going ahead with apply other feats of combat on top of this. Also just because a plant has been shown briefly training with Nightcap in one comic scene that does not mean by default are they a gifted martial artist, let alone scale to the same feats.

Also to answer this The plants in heroes are able to battle against trained ninja zombies and he was trained by ninjas cap himself in martial arts.

The scan for the Zen Sensei being a master martial artist just seems like a . And the anti-karate scan should only be added for the playable plants and not just all of them generally. The plants being able to defeat these karate zombies is not impressive, they don't have any feats or statements on their own outside of just blatantly being able to fight properly in contrast to regular zombies.

They use martial arts in combat(specifically karate) and was trained by zen sensei with them having an yellow belt(which means they are at least skilled in it)

The basic zombies normally got overpowered and only eventually defeat him in numbers and the heroes/bosses are already vastly stronger, he also has the weakness of being immobile in a pot.

The zombies can specifically hold their own against him in combat before losing(with the Gargtanuar and bonk chog in the scan going blow to blow with each other(showing they are even in skill at least until the garg cheated and won) also the pvz 2 plants can move around in canon(thyme events) and specifically in the comics

This scan is from a PvZ3 beta release that can be due to change anytime in the near future, until the actual game releases we should abstain from using any scan from soft launches.

Wait I don't even remember adding that in the orignal thread

These intelligence feats should just be self-contained for these characters its referring to, and not just added to the other ones straight up.

True

Do we ever get an elaboration on the infinity mechs being complex machines to pilot and utilize ever? And the second zomboss quote is just a general one he says whenever he's loosing in any match during a shooter game.

Zomboss has his zombies use the infinity mechs to travel to the gnomeverse multiple times to steal stuff from it and explore it with this statement acting as more evidence that they were trained also knowing how advance they are it more

Do we know if any of these plants have been around since the start of time and remain present? The only ones that come to mind are the primal plants that were literally taken from the past to present via time travel.

This scan is about peashooter and other plants battling against the zombies ever sense they were grown(not sense the dawn of time but going based off of statements the plants and zombies in an species sense has been battling one other for this long)

Do we know at all who in either army has still been part of this war for all of these thousands of years in the future since the start of it?

We do see the future plants battling against the zombies with the picture itself showing peashooter and cactus fighting said zombies still

The majority of these plants do not fight imps in hand to hand combat and are mostly canon fodder on a physical level anyways for them.

Plants like chomper and bonk chog to other plants hin heroes do

The first one is just about the bucket head zombie from the dark ages joining the army, nothing about receiving training of any sort for it. The second one is fine but it's a PVZ2C scan which I'll cover in a later bit.

fair

Where in that scan is it stated that the Soldiers are trained in all parts o the military because I can't find a scan for that at all. No where is it implied that General Supremo won a battle by himself, just that he did more likely from just leading it. And again I don't see why the plants would have to scale directly to characters like General Supremo for his strategic skills in leading a warfare, as that doesn't then correlate to his own fighting skills by himself.

The scan implys that zomboss was training his zombies in those branches when he gave each of them academy training which is consisent with how the soldiers were given military training or has high experience from it.

The plants can keep with him strategie wise and are referred to being smarter then basically all of the zombies besides zomboss and some heroes by the zombies themselves.

How is him being a skilled wrestler then upscale him from feats like that by other zombies? And when are those feats that the zombies make replicated at all?

I don't know why that is here(as that are for the pvz hero plants and zombies who keep up with him in combat.

Also the last scan is from zombies in heroes actually just having the ability to just do this and the plants can fight on par with him but yea.

 

[Plants_vs_zombies_fan101]

That's a shame, but I still disagree with how the other non-PvZ2C scans are utilised/justified with.

They were putted in rather the wrong way(on top of the reasons for peashooter gaining this rating not being put in https://vsbattles.com/threads/plant...ntelligent-skill-upgrades.188452/post-7587843 ) but yea also I will try to apply these changes(even if my laptop crashs an bunch)

Also writing on mobile sucks azz

 

[StarShooter80]

Also to answer this The plants in heroes are able to battle against trained ninja zombies and he was trained by ninjas cap himself in martial arts.

I already addressed the night cap point in that

They use martial arts in combat(specifically karate) and was trained by zen sensei with them having an yellow belt(which means they are at least skilled in it)

Is it ever established they have any great knowledge in it or of the like, because it just looks like really basic combat

The zombies can specifically hold their own against him in combat before losing(with the Gargtanuar and bonk chog in the scan going blow to blow with each other(showing they are even in skill at least until the garg cheated and won) also the pvz 2 plants can move around in canon(thyme events) and specifically in the comics

Monk Choy is not Grass Knuckles so don't use that example to somehow include one or the other.

Also no reason to apply to every plant.

Zomboss has his zombies use the infinity mechs to travel to the gnomeverse multiple times to steal stuff from it and explore it with this statement acting as more evidence that they were trained also knowing how advance they are it more

It's a basic dialogue that applies to every gamemode and the training is just "winning is not loosing" which has nothing to do with the infinity mechs.

This scan is about peashooter and other plants battling against the zombies ever sense they were grown(not sense the dawn of time but going based off of statements the plants and zombies in an species sense has been battling one other for this long)

That's entirely irrelevant humans have fought each other for centuries yet I'm not a h2h expert. How long the war has gone on doesn't make each individual plant and zombie's skills any more impressive

We do see the future plants battling against the zombies with the picture itself showing peashooter and cactus fighting said zombies still

Nothing supports these plants being all the way back in the modern times and still battling zombies since then. There's also the issue of time travel where plants have utilized to go into the future and fight several times.

Plants like chomper and bonk chog to other plants hin heroes do

Then why is it added for every plant

The scan implys that zomboss was training his zombies in those branches when he gave each of them academy training which is consisent with how the soldiers were given military training or has high experience from it.

The plants can keep with him strategie wise and are referred to being smarter then basically all of the zombies besides zomboss and some heroes by the zombies themselves.

What examples are there of plants being capable of keeping up with him in strategies, and where's the statement about the plants being superior in intelligence overall, and why doesn't it apply to all the zombies?


And again this is all just really at best gifted intelligence stuff nothing here is on the level of extraordinary intelligence

 

[Plants_vs_zombies_fan101]

I already addressed the night cap point in that

Judging by the fact the fact they right after processed to beat up the zombie heroes and can keep up with Nightcap in skill in bfn peashooter should scale in skill towards him.

Is it ever established they have any great knowledge in it or of the like, because it just looks like really basic combat

Dave refers to them dangerous ninja zombies so they should get skilled.

Monk Choy is not Grass Knuckles so don't use that example to somehow include one or the other.

I never bought him up? It was garrwer bar(who is an bonk choy) fights an Gargtanuar in the comics scan i shown and they were even in skill(it was barely knuckles fight with no weapons with the garg winning by just cheating)

Also no reason to apply to every plant.

The heroes regularly fights Gargtanuars(added in that i only gave this to heroes/bosses due to them either being on par with Gargtanuars or bonk chogs to just more skilled and experienced due to leaf training to such)peashooter and cactus

It's a basic dialogue that applies to every gamemode and the training is just "winning is not loosing" which has nothing to do with the infinity mechs.

That also could just be referring to zomboss talking about how je trained them not to lose and how to win.

That's entirely irrelevant humans have fought each other for centuries yet I'm not a h2h expert. How long the war has gone on doesn't make each individual plant and zombie's skills any more impressivE

I know but I was referring to how peashooter abd other plants ever sense they were born(like grown by Dave or whatever) have been battling against the zombies specifically with how peashooter after being grown by dave in 2009 have fought against them for every day of his life.

Nothing supports these plants being all the way back in the modern times and still battling zombies since then. There's also the issue of time travel where plants have utilized to go into the future and fight several times.

Peashooter and cactus are their own characters which all of the games to thyme events makes clear they are main characters so this being an random cactus doesn't make sense to be honest.

This is rather zomboss future self(as in gw2 his present self got help by his future self) with moon base z in game being in the present opposed to the future(as the picture takes lace over 1000 years into the future)

Then why is it added for every plant

I don't know actually(like i made multiple sections explaining what does and don't apply to characters)

What examples are there of plants being capable of keeping up with him in strategies, and where's the statement about the plants being superior in intelligence overall, and why doesn't it apply to all the zombies?

The plants in gw games are actively making plans and strategies to destroy or take over their bases and also can defend against to adapt to his strategy in the battles they go against him(also this should apply to al of the heroes to bosses as they similarly lead armys of plants/zombies against the heroes to such) but yea.

And again this is all just really at best gifted intelligence stuff nothing here is on the level of extraordinary intelligence

I know(it wasn't the reason for it)

 

[Plants_vs_zombies_fan101]

What examples are there of plants being capable of keeping up with him in strategies, and where's the statement about the plants being superior in intelligence overall, and why doesn't it apply to all the zombies?

 

[StarShooter80]

Judging by the fact the fact they right after processed to beat up the zombie heroes and can keep up with Nightcap in skill in bfn peashooter should scale in skill towards him.

The sequence just shows the plants jumping onto the zombie heroes in groups, nothing about them individually having a h2h confrontation with them.

Dave refers to them dangerous ninja zombies so they should get skilled.

Why must that just mean in skill and not also account for just being strong

I never bought him up? It was garrwer bar(who is an bonk choy) fights an Gargtanuar in the comics scan i shown and they were even in skill(it was barely knuckles fight with no weapons with the garg winning by just cheating)

You said that in response to me going against the scan of Monk Choy possessing martial arts.

That also could just be referring to zomboss talking about how je trained them not to lose and how to win.

I just said that and again has absolutely nothing to do with infinity mechs specifically, and is said generally anytime they start loosing a match of any sort.

I know but I was referring to how peashooter abd other plants ever sense they were born(like grown by Dave or whatever) have been battling against the zombies specifically with how peashooter after being grown by dave in 2009 have fought against them for every day of his life.

That doesn't debunk my point

Peashooter and cactus are their own characters which all of the games to thyme events makes clear they are main characters so this being an random cactus doesn't make sense to be honest.

The series is inconsistent about it but we see on far more occasions that each plant is a species and not just one single character

This is rather zomboss future self(as in gw2 his present self got help by his future self) with moon base z in game being in the present opposed to the future(as the picture takes lace over 1000 years into the future)

I know the context that doesn't go against what I said

The plants in gw games are actively making plans and strategies to destroy or take over their bases and also can defend against to adapt to his strategy in the battles they go against him(also this should apply to al of the heroes to bosses as they similarly lead armys of plants/zombies against the heroes to such) but yea.

Then you should have listed examples of that beforehand, and these plans can be made in groups rather than individually, or by someone who isn't a plant like Dave or his robot, which is moreso implied.

I know(it wasn't the reason for it)

Then what specifically makes these character EG in combat skill if nothing else outlined here proves that

 

[Plants_vs_zombies_fan101]

The sequence just shows the plants jumping onto the zombie heroes in groups, nothing about them individually having a h2h confrontation with them.

They were physically attacking them using their limbs(it wouldn't make sense for the zombies to retreat if the plants wasn't harming them hand 2 hand)

Why must that just mean in skill and not also account for just being strong

Being unless regular zombies they are trained in martial arts and are skilled in it.(addedin that they are still just as strong as the average browncoat with the difference being that they will either karate kick or chop you and can also jump on top of buildings)

You said that in response to me going against the scan of Monk Choy possessing martial arts.

I didn't as i only bought up bonk choys.

I just said that and again has absolutely nothing to do with infinity mechs specifically, and is said generally anytime they start loosing a match of any sort.

O but should I just rather replace that with the zombies using the infinity mechs multiple times to discover more about the gnomeverse(msking them more experienced then the plants who only used it once)

That doesn't debunk my point

I know I just was stating that it was never about their species fighting sense the dawn of time but rather the modern plants have been doing that ever sense they were created/born (mainly peashooter)

The series is inconsistent about it but we see on far more occasions that each plant is a species and not just one single character

Its rather that their both an species and an actual character similar to how their multiple humans yet their is also the main character human like the almanac always referring to the character and not the species with the thyme events literally centering around the peashooter sunflower and wall nut battling against zomboss or helping crazy dave and just general story's of adventures/things they are doing.

I know the context that doesn't go against what I said

It pretty much would be more supportive proof that it wasn't them time traveling but rather just an battle that happened in the future opposed to the one that happened in the present.

Then you should have listed examples of that beforehand, and these plans can be made in groups rather than individually, or by someone who isn't a plant like Dave or his robot, which is moreso implied.

Its implied to just be the plants and dave as peashooter sunflower to other heroes all just lead the plants or they are just wing manning it.

Then what specifically makes these character EG in combat skill if nothing else outlined here proves that

It was because of the fact that peashooter sunflower and wall-nut(kinda) are fight against and defeat zomboss in pvz 2 thyme events via using strategy they created against him and are comparable to the bfn zombies who are massively more unpredictable than crazy dave(which he admitted himself) who can make super computer brains collapse on themselves from how unpredictable his strategy are and could also figure out zomboss whole entire plan in Timepocalypse including what happened to his machinr then calculate where all of his machine parts went after just getting 1 single clue to me in the span of seconds.(which dave admitted that they were too unpredictable and zombipss in intelligence and strategy is comparable to him)

 

[Plants_vs_zombies_fan101]

It was because of the fact that peashooter sunflower and wall-nut(kinda) are fight against and defeat zomboss in pvz 2 thyme events via using strategy they created against him and are comparable to the bfn zombies who are massively more unpredictable than crazy dave(which he admitted himself) who can make super computer brains collapse on themselves from how unpredictable his strategy are and could also figure out zomboss whole entire plan in Timepocalypse including what happened to his machinr then calculate where all of his machine parts went after just getting 1 single clue to me in the span of seconds.(which dave admitted that they were too unpredictable and zombioss in intelligence and strategy is comparable to him)

Specifically finepoint only accepted with the last one and the plants being comparable to zomboss and dave in intelligence/strategy while the other mod agreed with everything else(besides pvz2c being canon)

 

[StarShooter80]

They were physically attacking them using their limbs(it wouldn't make sense for the zombies to retreat if the plants wasn't harming them hand 2 hand)

That doesn't debunk my arguement you're just re-stating your point?

Being unless regular zombies they are trained in martial arts and are skilled in it.(addedin that they are still just as strong as the average browncoat with the difference being that they will either karate kick or chop you and can also jump on top of buildings)

What infers they must be just as strong as browncoats exactly. And again for the third time there's nothing impressive about beating these karate zombies for the plants (who are already far stronger)'s own h2h scaling, everything

I didn't as i only bought up bonk choys.

The justification was that the Bonk Choys have the feat of knowing a martial art Bonk Choyu Ninjitsu and that the Gargantuars scale to him with the example of the Smash scaling to Grass Knuckles, a powered Bonk Choy. however even if we ignore the fact that just scaling all Gargantuars to the Smash is gisingenious for his own scaling, the Bonk Choyu Ninjitsu is just for Monk Choy not any regular Bonk Choy.

O but should I just rather replace that with the zombies using the infinity mechs multiple times to discover more about the gnomeverse(msking them more experienced then the plants who only used it once)

This is just head canon and circular reasoning.

I know I just was stating that it was never about their species fighting sense the dawn of time but rather the modern plants have been doing that ever sense they were created/born (mainly peashooter)

You're basically saying yes and no and again no there's no evidence suggesting any modern plant has been fighting ever since the dawn of time.

Its rather that their both an species and an actual character similar to how their multiple humans yet their is also the main character human like the almanac always referring to the character and not the species with the thyme events literally centering around the peashooter sunflower and wall nut battling against zomboss or helping crazy dave and just general story's of adventures/things they are doing.

No it's genuinely an inconsistency in the franchise, trying to make sense of it with such a half-baked reason is not gonna resolve it nor make any of the scaling any easier. It's also just absurd trying to decipher at what point is it "the peashooter" or any other kind of peashooter it could have been.

It pretty much would be more supportive proof that it wasn't them time traveling but rather just an battle that happened in the future opposed to the one that happened in the present.

That doesn't debunk the plants coming from the past at all you're acting like these are contradicting points.

Its implied to just be the plants and dave as peashooter sunflower to other heroes all just lead the plants or they are just wing manning it.

Then why didn't you actually supply your original CRT with any of those scans for each of the characters.

It was because of the fact that peashooter sunflower and wall-nut(kinda) are fight against and defeat zomboss in pvz 2 thyme events via using strategy they created against him and are comparable to the bfn zombies who are massively more unpredictable than crazy dave(which he admitted himself) who can make super computer brains collapse on themselves from how unpredictable his strategy are and could also figure out zomboss whole entire plan in Timepocalypse including what happened to his machinr then calculate where all of his machine parts went after just getting 1 single clue to me in the span of seconds.(which dave admitted that they were too unpredictable and zombipss in intelligence and strategy is comparable to him)

Can you be more coherent with what you're trying to say here it genuinely makes no sense

 

[Plants_vs_zombies_fan101]

That doesn't debunk my arguement you're just re-stating your point?

It would mean they were physically beating them up abd disprove ur point that they weren't fighting the zombies in hand to hand combat.

What infers they must be just as strong as browncoats exactly. And again for the third time there's nothing impressive about beating these karate zombies for the plants (who are already far stronger)'s own h2h scaling, everything

Because firstly nothing implys they are stronger snd secondly they are just as durable as them while dealing like the same amount of damage with the plants being able to keep up with them in skill/h2h(chomper) like I don't get this point.

The justification was that the Bonk Choys have the feat of knowing a martial art Bonk Choyu Ninjitsu and that the Gargantuars scale to him with the example of the Smash scaling to Grass Knuckles, a powered Bonk Choy. however even if we ignore the fact that just scaling all Gargantuars to the Smash is gisingenious for his own scaling, the Bonk Choyu Ninjitsu is just for Monk Choy not any regular Bonk Choy.

The example was garrwer bar(an comics only plant character who is an trained and skilled bonk chog) going blow to blow with the Gargtanuar which even ignoring this the gw bosses(like Gargtanuarrs) would be comparable to fight on par with the hero zombies including ones like Super brainzs who in his fight with the plant heroes including glass knuckles was able to easily read and dodge his attacks while making an joke out of him and multiple other heroes.

This is just head canon and circular reasoning.

This Literally stated plainout in the pvz gnomus boss hunt like its how they even got the gnomus artifacts they used to draw out the gnomes in the first place?

You're basically saying yes and no and again no there's no evidence suggesting any modern plant has been fighting ever since the dawn of time.

Not what I am saying? I am saying that all of the modern plants have been fighting the undead ever sense they(the main characters not the species) were born with peashooter(an plant who was grown in 2009) battling against the zombies every sense the day he was planted.

While I then said that their species are this old with zombies from this time still being alive abd fighting against the plants.

No it's genuinely an inconsistency in the franchise, trying to make sense of it with such a half-baked reason is not gonna resolve it nor make any of the scaling any easier. It's also just absurd trying to decipher at what point is it "the peashooter" or any other kind of peashooter it could have been.

Its not an half baked reason when all of the games make it consistent with the literal thyme events actively outright proving this and showing that they are characters with their iwn competely different personalities like by this logic then red from angry birds isn't his own character as multiple different reds exist who ain't the "main red".

Like even the zombies have their own main character plants like gawarr gar(bonk bony) sunny(an sunflower) fred(also an flower) scooter(an peashooter) etc who all are their whole entire different characters that are apart of an species.

That doesn't debunk the plants coming from the past at all you're acting like these are contradicting points.

As it goes against it like ignoring the fact that moon base z takes place in an competely different time period(the persent) compared to this battle taking 1000 years into the future the story itself also doesn't state that they time traveled and

Then why didn't you actually supply your original CRT with any of those scans for each of the characters.

Its already there.

Can you be more coherent with what you're trying to say here it genuinely makes no sense

Basically crazy dave is so intelligent that he has his own version op version of information analysis(which allowed him to figure out everything detail of zomboss plan) and could predict where all of zomboss machine parts went after they got sent randomly across space-time after zomboss machine blowing up.

With him being so unpredictable that the zomboss super computer brain me made to predict every possible move crazy dave and his plants could make after zomboss gave it all information he has on dave and his pland made it collapsed on itself due to how unpredictable crazy dave strategies are.

The plants(sunflower and peashooter) are able to battle against the zomboss and his zombies on their own being comparable to him in strategy who us just as intelligence as Dave.

And the bfn zombies are described by crazy Dave as being too and more unpredictable for/then him with finepoint disagreeing with the Super computer part only
While the other mod agreed with everything

 

[StarShooter80]

This is the last reply I'm gonna make because at this point it's just bloating the CRT to a unnecessary degree and has not changed my mind at all

It would mean they were physically beating them up abd disprove ur point that they weren't fighting the zombies in hand to hand combat.

They weren't individually fighting them they were fighting as a group that was my poiny, simply pointing out that they were fighting again doesn't disprove what I said

Because firstly nothing implys they are stronger snd secondly they are just as durable as them while dealing like the same amount of damage with the plants being able to keep up with them in skill/h2h(chomper) like I don't get this point.

And nothing implies they're massively skilled? And yeah they do perform better feats like knocking them back which shows superior physicals

The example was garrwer bar(an comics only plant character who is an trained and skilled bonk chog) going blow to blow with the Gargtanuar which even ignoring this the gw bosses(like Gargtanuarrs) would be comparable to fight on par with the hero zombies including ones like Super brainzs who in his fight with the plant heroes including glass knuckles was able to easily read and dodge his attacks while making an joke out of him and multiple other heroes.

Then that sounds fine but it can work with a better justification than that

This Literally stated plainout in the pvz gnomus boss hunt like its how they even got the gnomus artifacts they used to draw out the gnomes in the first place?

The cats vs dinos came out before the brother gnomus boss hunt, also why would the plants not have any training beforehand using

Not what I am saying? I am saying that all of the modern plants have been fighting the undead ever sense they(the main characters not the species) were born with peashooter(an plant who was grown in 2009) battling against the zombies every sense the day he was planted.

While I then said that their species are this old with zombies from this time still being alive abd fighting against the plants.

So because peashooter started fighting since 2009 and still kept going on into modern territory that means plants since the dawn of time also have been fighting since then? I don't see the correlation between the two at all. And again the species part does not matter, that's the species not the plants individually.

Its not an half baked reason when all of the games make it consistent with the literal thyme events actively outright proving this and showing that they are characters with their iwn competely different personalities like by this logic then red from angry birds isn't his own character as multiple different reds exist who ain't the "main red".

The games have extremely explicit and outright moments where there's multiple of the same plant even outside of gameplay you'd have to be ignorant of that to push that there's just one main character.

As it goes against it like ignoring the fact that moon base z takes place in an competely different time period(the persent) compared to this battle taking 1000 years into the future the story itself also doesn't state that they time traveled and

Again I'm not denying that the fight shown takes place 1000 years in the future. Nothing suggests these specific plants lived for a thousand years to see this part of the battle either, time travel and these just being new peashooters/cacti is just as reasonable.

Its already there.

Well clearly someone didn't implement it in the actual profile changes

Basically crazy dave is so intelligent that he has his own version op version of information analysis(which allowed him to figure out everything detail of zomboss plan) and could predict where all of zomboss machine parts went after they got sent randomly across space-time after zomboss machine blowing up.

With him being so unpredictable that the zomboss super computer brain me made to predict every possible move crazy dave and his plants could make after zomboss gave it all information he has on dave and his pland made it collapsed on itself due to how unpredictable crazy dave strategies are.

The plants(sunflower and peashooter) are able to battle against the zomboss and his zombies on their own being comparable to him in strategy who us just as intelligence as Dave.

And the bfn zombies are described by crazy Dave as being too and more unpredictable for/then him

The super computer feat just sounds one souly on Dave's part with the plants just following his commands. And the zombies being unpredictable can also just be due to the commands they follow from zomboss rather than individually being unpredictable for crazy dave. Also I do not recall a time where sunflower and peashooter, on their own without any guidance, had any feats putting them on the same level as zomboss' strategic intelligence. Again that's the last reply I'm gonna give because I'm tired of bloating this thread with pointless back and forth

 

[Plants_vs_zombies_fan101]

This is the last reply I'm gonna make because at this point it's just bloating the CRT to a unnecessary degree and has not changed my mind at all

i will just response one last time(sense i am now on my laptop and isn't on mobile any more)

They weren't individually fighting them they were fighting as a group that was my poiny, simply pointing out that they were fighting again doesn't disprove what I said

that would still scale combat wise as they only beat the zombie heroes in an 2 on 4(which the zombies were massively stronger then them) added in that other low tier plants on their own has defeated the zombie heroes in hand to hand combat and beaten them on their own with him keeping up with nightcap in bfn.

Also this is the context for Patrice being trained in that 252 martial arts(this was during when she and nate aged up).

And nothing implies they're massively skilled? And yeah they do perform better feats like knocking them back which shows superior physicals

they would be skilled in it as they have yellow belts which means they ain't beginners and know the basics of it ranging from how to fight and defend themselves but i will stop arguing on this point as i can see that i am wrong also dave only refers to them as ninjas.

Then that sounds fine but it can work with a better justification than that

true

the cats vs dinos came out before the brother gnomus boss hunt, also why would the plants not have any training beforehand using

it isn't really implied they did besides the fact that the party plants ain't trapped in the infinity chest anymore compared to the zombies who are stated to have actually done that multiple times even traveling into hidden dimensions of the gnomes.

So because peashooter started fighting since 2009 and still kept going on into modern territory that means plants since the dawn of time also have been fighting since then? I don't see the correlation between the two at all.

thats what i am saying they have no correlation for the plants

And again the species part does not matter, that's the species not the plants individually.

while true the zombies actually have characters from the beginning of time still around and battling the plants added in based off of pvz timepocalypse like most of them are at least hundreds of years old and have experience battling against different plants as old.

The games have extremely explicit and outright moments where there's multiple of the same plant even outside of gameplay you'd have to be ignorant of that to push that there's just one main character.

the games don't outside of the 3rd volume of the pvz bfn comics when their was mulitple roses corns and citrons (despite the fact that none of them are a species) which also didn't even make sense in universe with some of the variants(like super brainzs ones) being implied to be alt versions of himself from different universes making this weird.

but ignoring the comics inconsistently it made clear in thyme events that they are their own characters with the pvz almanacs(besides the shooter ones) being what they gossip inside of and what not with peashooter specifically being his own character in all of the almanacs.

Again I'm not denying that the fight shown takes place 1000 years in the future. Nothing suggests these specific plants lived for a thousand years to see this part of the battle either, time travel and these just being new peashooters/cacti is just as reasonable.

it wouldn't make sense for them to be dead as ignoring respawns they look just alike to peashooter and cactus with nothing implying they ain't them through i will also say that the same can be said for my interception.

The super computer feat just sounds one souly on Dave's part with the plants just following his commands. And the zombies being unpredictable can also just be due to the commands they follow from zomboss rather than individually being unpredictable for crazy dave. Also I do not recall a time where sunflower and peashooter, on their own without any guidance, had any feats putting them on the same level as zomboss' strategic intelligence. Again that's the last reply I'm gonna give because I'm tired of bloating this thread with pointless back and forth

the bfn zombies fighting style who Dave describes as being massively unpredictable even more then himself with Dave being so unpredictable that machines made by zomboss himself to predict every possible move Dave and his plants could ever make with all of the information needed to do so ended up quite literally destroying itself within moments of even trying to understand Crazy Dave after predicting thousands of things he could have done added in literal seconds that should be superior to past machines zomboss made(as he learns from his mistakes to make his technology superior then their older counterparts) like Steve who can process over 40 quadrillions terra's of computations(which he made to only to just baby sit and take care of the imps) and is able to solve and figure out zomboss plans in seconds from even the smallest of clues(on top of calculating where each of zomboss machine parts went after they were send randomly across space-time itself)

in thyme events usually helping Dave or on their own defeating Zomboss (multiple times) with them not falling for zomboss tricks nor his battle strategies with them also actively planting other plants to battle against him and his zombies including even zombots.

sorry if i bloated this thread but i think this stuff should clear stuff up.

 

[Thanganimator]

Intelligence, to me, is one of the most useless things besides social influence in a matchup, so I won't comment on it.

 

[Mommyleona]

This verse is having a major issue with many revisions being passed where edits are faulty, justifications are incoherent or improper, extremely bloated, and most of all zero references used, so I just want to advise that any mod not experienced with the verse to be more strict on revisions for it.

big agree to this and the OP

 

[Ebihara]

Agree with op

 

[FinePoint]

Yeah, I agree with OP, these seem pretty bogus, and I don't remember Supergenius ever even being accepted.

 

[Plants_vs_zombies_fan101]

Yeah, I agree with OP, these seem pretty bogus, and I don't remember Supergenius ever even being accepted.

It wasn't and the reasons for the rating wasn't even put in

 

[Just a Random Butler]

I agree.