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wtf zeno has been declared capable of destroying 12 universe destroyed 6 has declared the maximum on the dragon scale. ball being the alpha cosmology I do not think you should show that it scales ridiculously by power twelve universe
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Zen-Oh downgrade (DBS CRT)
- Thread starter Nullflowerblush
- Start date
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- Tags
- dragon ball zen'ō
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all I'm saying is, the justification for him being 2-C is exclusively statements, erasing things has absolutely 0 correlation to AP whatsoever
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Existence erasure scales to AP in tier 2.
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but like
why? that makes no sense at all and I've never seen such a standard that exists
why? that makes no sense at all and I've never seen such a standard that exists
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Cause on tier 2, it's all about literally destroying the universe
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I have no idea how this makes EE scale to AP
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regular EE just isn't enough when it's on such a scale unless there's actual evidence. Basically, Zeno already scales to tier 2 level characters, or 4D characters. Unless you could prove that his hax scales infinitely higher than he does, his Tier 2 rating isn't changing
Vietthai96
He/Him- 9,233
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Some hax can give you tier, like EE or Creation.
Anyway i agree with Zeno have Unknown speed rating, but he can still observe many fights in both Zeno Exhibition Match and Tournament of Power, so he still should have likely MFTL+ reaction speed
Anyway i agree with Zeno have Unknown speed rating, but he can still observe many fights in both Zeno Exhibition Match and Tournament of Power, so he still should have likely MFTL+ reaction speed
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there is so much wrong with this but I can't get into a fraction of it without derailing the thread
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dyspo thing is an outlier, we have seen zeno capable of percieving and reacting to faster people within the tournament of power.
why do you think his fighting speed is fodder when higher power=higher speed within dragon ball, and zeno is blatantly above all within the verse
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Cause he has literally no fighting capabilities whatsoever. That, and he literally needed the god pad thing. These things aren’t just outliers
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Not being considered a "fighter" is fine for zeno, but again even with 0 experience in martial arts or any type of fighting he remains at the pinnacle of the verse, so clearly having no experience in fighting doesn't really matter to him. And the dyspo thing is 100% is an outlier, especially since we see zeno easily percieving literally every other fight in the tournament of power, and even fighters that should scale far above dyspo in the t.o.p.
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Disagree. We clearly see his energy start at his hands and then move outward in an omni-directional path way. This can clearly be calced for an attack speed.
Vietthai96
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1. Zeno is featless when it come to speed. His feat of perceiving fighters is reaction speed, while it is worth listing, it will not scale to his general speed, thus Unknown rating
2. Being above all can be interpreted in many ways, not just about power
3. Can we stop using outlier as a way to counter an argument????, Dyspo consistently showing that his speed above many other but not his power. Or we considering Dyspo is a outlier character and treat him non-existence???
2. Being above all can be interpreted in many ways, not just about power
3. Can we stop using outlier as a way to counter an argument????, Dyspo consistently showing that his speed above many other but not his power. Or we considering Dyspo is a outlier character and treat him non-existence???
Zeno feat when erase Zamasu is treated as Existence Erasure hax, not ki blast anymore
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It's erasure hax and still very much calcable to get an attack speed.
Vietthai96
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You don't calc hax and scale it to general speed rating, or everyone have passive hax or timestop hax will get infinite speed
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If a time stop is done via an omni directional blast that starts at the user, then you can calc the attack speed of a time stop. Zeno's hax was depicted in such a way that it can be calced. Hax can be calced for speed depending on how its done.
Vietthai96
He/Him- 9,233
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Oh, and in Tounarment of Power he just raise his hand and 1 universes erased instantly, so we have infinite speed for him and everyone else in the verse then. No, we don't calc speed of a hax, even if it is depicted in similar way to an energy blast
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Zeno's ball of energy did not expand across the multiverse, the multiverse was enveloped in white from all sides not expanding, and it all disappeared at once and this is consistent with how his power works in the TOP.
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?? I'm not understanding your point here.
Zeno using his erasure hax in way that can be calced for speed and in a way that can't be, doesn't negate you can still calc the other method.
Also why would that scenario in the Tournament of Power even give infinite speed rating unless infinite distance was involved?
Vietthai96
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ToP feat he cross the distance from himself to the universe instantly with his EE hax, and no projectile or something like spreading omnidirection blast was involved, that is enough for a likely infinite speed rating. So using visual choice here to calc a suppose EE blast is kinda a bad choice here
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You can't speed calc non traveling attacks.
But if hax is done via a traveling hax then you can calc it.
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If you think that giving tiers (AP) to EE is wrong, make a CRT.
But if you're planning to make a thread about why tiering Creation (Giving Creation feats AP) is wrong, then I'd suggest you drop it quickly. We literally had two CRTs for it and we now have rules against not scaling Creation to AP (We even have a mass table which specifies the amount of mass you'd need to create to qualify for a certain tier).
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Meh, it was always in relation to power tbh. I doubt they call him that for speed or anything like that
Vietthai96
He/Him- 9,233
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A very generic and overall statement
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but it was pretty clear that it was referring to raw power in the hierarchy that's set out in DB
Vietthai96
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And, he actually above everyone with his EE, physically, no. we don't even know if he actually know how to use Ki, no feat for it at all, so while should we rate him like what on his profile right now?????
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I think saying that he doesn’t even know how to use ki is a little bit of a stretch, seeing as he’s alive and is clearly fairly intelligent to a degree as the tournament implied.
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Also, I hope I don't have to say this, but Zeno nukes IZ, he doesn't use his Erase ability for that one.
Zeno's nuking is much different from him actually erasing people. For nuking, Zeno charges up his ki blasts. For erasing, he just waves his one hand upward and the dude/universe he targets just vanishes into non-existence.
Zeno's nuking is much different from him actually erasing people. For nuking, Zeno charges up his ki blasts. For erasing, he just waves his one hand upward and the dude/universe he targets just vanishes into non-existence.
Vietthai96
He/Him- 9,233
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Well, i'm sorry if this sound rude to you, but you should tell that to AKM, he is the one who agree with the thread of treating Zeno erased IZ feat as EE feat, not ki blast
And...what your point, Babidi also very intellectual person, but he also doesn't have Ki Manip on his profile cuz he never have feat of doing this, or should we make a CRT to have Babidi get Ki Manip because he is intelligence individual?????
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Oh? I could've sworn he was part of the group that agreed to Zamasu's feat involving a ki blast instead of EE.
Either that, or it was DDM who suggested it.
Vietthai96
He/Him- 9,233
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Hmm, that thread is long ago though
Nullflowerblush
He/Him- 8,942
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- Thread starter
- #73
There was no energy blast involved. The light that emanates from his hands have nothing to do with the existence erasing. When Zen-Oh erased the future world and the other universes during the tournament, the light never touched them. The light is just there to signify that he is, indeed, going to erase something. Nothing expanded across the Multiverse. Zen-Oh just collectively removed the timeline from existence; he just has Multiversal range.
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1. Its verbatim stated he is the strongest, stronger than anyone else, so yes i believe it means in power.
2. Because it is 100% an outlier, or do you mean to tell me dyspo is literally faster than anyone else in the tournament of power? You mean to tell me he was fine percieving ui goku vs jiren, and ssb level fights no problem, but dyspo by himself debunks all of that?
No. It is more consistent, in the tournament of power, and even narratively speaking that zeno has the speed to react to those fighters.
Instant just means a short period of time not literally 0 time. We also see it taking moments for zeno's erasure to take place, so its definitely not happening in 0 time. But even if it was, that would just scale his attack speed to infinite. Using the wiki's ratings to justify why things aren't the case isn't good logic imo.
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it is stated time and time again that zeno can't be defeated, which applies if he just erases everything that tries to defeat him
and it's also stated that he can erase anything, so take that however you will, but there's no direct strong evidence of zeno having that AP
and it's also stated that he can erase anything, so take that however you will, but there's no direct strong evidence of zeno having that AP
Vizer04
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I don't think this was ever said
Vietthai96
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1. Oh, it is your interpretation then, but well his EE hax did above everyone else
2. So the entire dyspo character is an outlier then, but if we talk in your opinion, then there are a very consistently outlier in the entire ToP arc, thus not make it outlier anymore, as he consistently have higher speed than Frieza, Goku both in SSG and SSB, and Hit. There are two, possibly three person he not above is. Zeno on the other hand almost featless
3. Instant can be infinite, especially we don't even see a projectile or a spreading omnidirectional blast
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Agree with the proposals.
DivineAura44
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Was literally just about to make this.
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What I meant is that it’s highly unlikely that Zeno was around for so long without learning about ki. He even seems to be able to notice and understand it in the top.
