Kenganverse Downgrade

[Damage3245]

Shouldn't Demonsbane be a Varies rating? It uses the power of his opponent and his own power, meaning Ohma's Demonbane isn't going to be the same necessarily as another Demonsbane he's used depending on who he is fighting.

 

[LordGinSama]

Shouldn't Demonsbane be a Varies rating? It uses the power of his opponent and his own power, meaning Ohma's Demonbane isn't going to be the same necessarily as another Demonsbane he's used depending on who he is fighting.

Not necessarily, Demonsbane still creates a massive amount of destruction as seen with his first usage. The first Demonsbane's showcased an incredible amount of destructive capability, showing that at maximum that's what Ohma is capable of actually reflecting. Varies implies that he can reflect any attack from any character no matter the strength of the opponent. The max he's shown to be able reflect is 7-C.


At worst Demonsbane would be rated as "Varies, at most 7-C." or whatever Dragon's calc yields to which we're still talking about.

Also to quote Walter White from Breaking Bad Stay out of my territory.

 

[NikHelton]

Did Ohma really cause an earthquake during the battle with Wakatsuki? This is evidenced by only one page, where we see sharp lines on the walls of the arena. But it may be just a stylistic device than a real earthquake. The fact is that the author has always pointed to such moments. We've always been emphasized on shockwaves that evoke the most physically powerful characters in the verse.

If you want to calculate an earthquake, I would suggest that you calculate the seismic activity that Liu Deng Chen caused.
You can also calculate the shockwave caused by Gilius and Wakatsuki, as well as Gilius and Mudo. This can give good results.

The Demonbane shockwave, if we scale it from the mountain, has a range of 100 to 200 tons of TNT.

I also suggest trying to calculate the earthquake caused by Wakatsuki in the battle with Fey. The 5th scale should cause minor damage, but the arena was not damaged visually. I suggest using 3.5, 4 and 4.5 magnitudes as low, medium and high ends.

 

[LordGinSama]

Did Ohma really cause an earthquake during the battle with Wakatsuki? This is evidenced by only one page, where we see sharp lines on the walls of the arena. But it may be just a stylistic device than a real earthquake.

He shook the arena, this isn't a simple artistic liberty as we see the Arena getting shook along with the "DOOM!" sound effect. We use the same formula for shockwaves and earthquake's so you'd need to make a CRT for the wiki Standards to change that.

The fact is that the author has always pointed to such moments. We've always been emphasized on shockwaves that evoke the most physically powerful characters in the verse.

I don't follow, your sentence structure here only proves my point. Sandro is very detailed when it comes to his feats when it comes to shaking and shockwaves.

If you want to calculate an earthquake, I would suggest that you calculate the seismic activity that Liu Deng Chen caused.

Absolutely not, Liu isn't even remotely comparable to Ohma or Wakatsuki and his only casued very minor shaking. His isn't even considering as effecting seismic activity. Your also attempting to apply a feat from much later in the series to something that happened much earlier and by a vastly weaker character.

You can also calculate the shockwave caused by Gilius and Wakatsuki, as well as Gilius and Mudo. This can give good results.

Waka's and Julius's feat are already calculated and we're never shown the full extent of Toa's and Julius's clash. We're only shown what's happening inside the Purgatory Dome, not the outside.

The Demonbane shockwave, if we scale it from the mountain, has a range of 100 to 200 tons of TNT.

As I said I'm going to wait for Dragon to calculate the Demonsbane feat so I'd appreciate it if you could stop mentioning that particular feat, especially without a calc.

I also suggest trying to calculate the earthquake caused by Wakatsuki in the battle with Fey. The 5th scale should cause minor damage, but the arena was not damaged visually. I suggest using 3.5, 4 and 4.5 magnitudes as low, medium and high ends.

Dragon also has that calculated at almost 500 tons as a low ball. The only reason why it hasn't been implemented is because I wanted to finish the Ashura scaling before we get into Omega scaling, as I need to edit and fix several scaling issues in Ashura. One of my main issues with getting upset with you previously is because I have a plethora of work to do with Ashura alone and you brought up Omega, which still needs several profiles to be created before we even address the scaling of it. I wanted to focus on Ashura first and foremost due to it having a larger cast of characters and a more varied form of scaling.

Also the Purgatory Dome is a superstructure which are resistant to earthquakes. It's massive, durable and located inside a mountain which would increase the resistance towards seismic activity

 

[NikHelton]

The fact of the matter is that Sandrovich did not emphasize in any way that these were really earthquakes. Frightened birds and strokes indicate only that there was a crash and shock wave. It would be very strange if the characters commented on the usual shock waves, but did not comment on the earthquake, which is tens or hundreds of times greater than anything they have seen before.

Moreover, so far this is the only level 7 feat that looks like a blowout and creates too much spread between characters. Karo had parity with Saw Paing, who in turn could defeat Rey with his brute strength, and Rey caused a lot of inconvenience to Kuroki. Likewise, Kaneda does his best to break the face of Himuro, who has shown the ability to block Ryu's attacks, who could harm Naidan, who is directly compared to Wakatsuki. This is a very sloppy scaling, but it shows that the difference between the characters' powers can be 10-20 times, but definitely not thousands.

Regarding Liu Deng Chen. Lolong himself said that he sees his equal opponent. In addition, he was able to defeat Nitoku, who was stronger than the earlier one, who was able to push the Kano of the Asura times to the limit. It definitely cannot be called much weaker than Ohma.

 

[LordGinSama]

The fact of the matter is that Sandrovich did not emphasize in any way that these were really earthquakes. Frightened birds and strokes indicate only that there was a crash and shock wave. It would be very strange if the characters commented on the usual shock waves, but did not comment on the earthquake, which is tens or hundreds of times greater than anything they have seen before.

Again shockwaves and earthquake calculations use the same type of formula here. You seem to have an issue with how we calculate shockwaves here as opposed to the Kengan feat in particular. So I'd suggest making a CRT for the shockwave and earthquake formula if you truly have issues with this feat in particular. All Ohma's feat is doing is using the shockwave formula which is based upon our earthquake formula so you'd need to make a site wide revision for that.

Moreover, so far this is the only level 7 feat that looks like a blowout and creates too much spread between characters. Karo had parity with Saw Paing,

Karo and Saw don't scale to Ohma.

who in turn could defeat Rey with his brute strength, and Rey caused a lot of inconvenience to Kuroki.

This is blatantly ignoring context Rei was amped by Reno tremendously.

Likewise, Kaneda does his best to break the face of Himuro, who has shown the ability to block Ryu's attacks, who could harm Naidan, who is directly compared to Wakatsuki.

Kaneda nor Himuro ever fought against Naidan. Ryuki could only harm Naidan when going into his bloodlust mode, and Naidan isn't never stated to be comparable to Wakatsuki. Naidan was getting dropped by Liu's Fa Jin's to which Nitoku was tanking left, Nitoku being the same fighter who's rusty and got stomped by a Pre KAT Kanoh. Ryo blocked one attack from a non blood listed Ryuki so again context matters here greatly.

This is a very sloppy scaling, but it shows that the difference between the characters' powers can be 10-20 times, but definitely not thousands.

It's sloppy to you because you have a genuine misunderstanding of the verse with all due respect. You just tried to insinuate that Himuro and Kaneda scale to Naidan since Ryo blocked one attack from a non bloodlusted Ryuki whenever Naidan was stomping Ryuki before the latter went into his killing mode.

Regarding Liu Deng Chen. Lolong himself said that he sees his equal opponent.

Lolong never stated that he sees Liu as an equal opponent, you're thinking of Jurota. The only character in Purgatory who's comparable to Donarie is Arashiyama, as they're the two King's of Purgatory. Liu is not in that roster. Lolong said that Liu's has one of the best martial arts he's seen, not that he considers him as an equal in terms of might. So again, this is misunderstanding and or lack of proper context of the statements. Liu's entire shtick is to attack vitals and inards with his Fa Jin, not his physical strength. Lolong is the same person who's on top of Purgatory and effortlessly stopped a bloodlusted Akoya and Nicholas.

In addition, he was able to defeat Nitoku, who was stronger than the earlier one.

Nitoku during Purgatory wasn't stronger than the time he fought against Kanoh. He stopped fighting and training for years and picked up writing instead. That's literally one of the major reason's why he lost to Liu was because he stopped fighting and pursued writing.

who was able to push the Kano of the Asura times to the limit.

This is actually retconed as we see the actual result of Kanoh vs Nitoku with Kanoh barely damaged while Nitoku was bloodied up and with a broken arm. I fail to see why you didn't mention this.

It definitely cannot be called much weaker than Ohma.

He most certainly can. Even KAT Ohma was fighting against vastly stronger opponents such as Wakatsuki, Kure Raian and Gensai. Ohma was also very cleary much stronger than Liu as he Redirectied Liu's blow where he was hell bent on actually killing Ryuki right then and there.



TLDR; Your arguments rely on personal gripes with how we calculate things on the wiki, are based upon massive misconceptions and fail to provide proper context to which I assume is to lure people into agreeing with you while not providing the full scope.

 

[DaReaperMan]

I still agree with the juniper berry alcoholic drink man

 

[Jo-Smooth]

Yeah I need to update the low tiers and mid tiers, this CRT has held me up aside from the profiles getting altered by the OP since they thought the scaling came from Demonsbane which nobody scales to.

Thanks. I'd give some input on it, but 1.) This isn't the thread for it and 2.) I'm guessing your probably know what profiles need to be changed already

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

This needs a Calc Group Discussion Thread

 

[LordGinSama]

Let's not get into speed, me and the OP are still talking about some calculations for the verse.

 

[Muuuuh]

Não vamos entrar na velocidade, eu e o OP ainda estamos conversando sobre alguns cálculos para o verso.

Sorry for that, I'll delete the post. I'm going to create another Crt to solve this doubt.