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Except for Black Maria, what other female characters are you talking about?
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One Piece Chapter 1021: "Demonio" (Official Release)
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I completely forgot about this.
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Sanji explicitly didn't use Haki because he was worried about hurting Black Maria by simply defending with Haki
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Just like how I admit that a random woman from Sabaody Archipelago is capable of hurting him. It's a Sanji thing that's never meant to be taken seriously because that's how Oda is trying to show his chivalry. Btw, Kalifa couldn't hurt Monster Point Chopper. So going by this logic Kalifa>>>Jabra>Monster point Chopper>Blueno and the others (whose names I forgot).So you agree Kalifa is strong enough to hurt Sanji
Also, heavily weakened? Sanji only got battered which is something every character in this verse is used to by that point.
Also, you seem to forget Sanji ALSO resorted to trickery vs Jabra.
"Only got battered which is something every character in this verse is used to by that point" except you cannot use this logic to say that every Strawhat beside Luffy and Zoro can defeat the third strongest CP9, while being shigan'd, Rankyaku'd, kicked in the balls and brutally beaten up off-screen prior to their big fights. Nami? Chopper? Sogekin? NOT ONLE SINGLE OF THEM WERE CAPABLE OF DOING THAT, despite being healthy and in their best state, especially the fact Sanji almost knocked out Blueno with a kick, while he used Tekkai.
Kalifa is so hilariously inferior to Sanji, that she's lucky that she was born as a woman. Sanji being hurt by Women is the equivalent of Nami punching Luffy. You could argue it's not the same. However, name me one moment where a woman didn't hurt Sanji? Sorry, but really don't have any recollection of women not kicking Sanji's ass, even Violet and the girls from Sabaody Archipelago took advantage of Sanji's chivalry.
Except Sanji wasn't using trickery in order to win he only played along with his nonsense, considering Sanji wasn't forced to resort to trickery in the first place contrary to Jabra, who needed an opportunity to hit him. Did Sanji ever came up with a weird backstory, or other means? Nah, why bring this up though? He was the one who dominated the fight and kept up with his strongest techniques in his weakened state. He saw the fight as a perfect opportunity to use a new technique, which he could activate at any time. Just like Luffy, they wanted to finish their fights as quickly as possible to find the key for Robin, heavily emphasizing that luffy could beat Blueno without G2 and Healthy Sanji could beat Jabra without DJ.
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Some random women, Kalifa, Violetta, Nami and pretty much everyone with a Bagina (no disrespect to Sanji, but he literally invited simping to a whole new lvl)
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https://media.**********.net/attachments/802998108355166248/874658845518073876/1628604689512.jpg
Sanji aside. Nice foreshadowing Oda (Oda drew this in 2005)
I'm not being 100% serious, but just wanted to point this out
Sanji aside. Nice foreshadowing Oda (Oda drew this in 2005)
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Well, I can understand where you're coming from. But if it's a valid feat, even if Sanji is a huge simp, I personally don't seem the problem with a female scaling to him.
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Nami and random women Sanji hits on hurt him for gags, yes. The "damage" he sustains is practically gone in the very next panel.
Kalifa actually did damage to Sanji, and so did Viola. Sanji even complimented Kalifa's power. Though I will admit the kick she landed on him when she was going let Sanji search her was definitely a gag. She still hurt him with a Shigan and Rankyaku.
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@RazumaHiroki - BTW, I still don't understand why you bring up Jabra using trickery on Sanji as a reason for Base Sanji > Jabra when Jabra did the same to Usopp. You trying to say Usopp would beat Jabra as well?
Jabra is sadistic and he inherits the traits of a wolf from old fairy tales and folklore. Deception, sadism, and brutality. Him using trickery on Sanji and Usopp doesn't mean he feels he's at a disadvantage. He gets off on it.
Jabra is sadistic and he inherits the traits of a wolf from old fairy tales and folklore. Deception, sadism, and brutality. Him using trickery on Sanji and Usopp doesn't mean he feels he's at a disadvantage. He gets off on it.
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I'm completely aware of that, heck I was the one who said she literally beat him up because she took advantage of his chivalry (Simp) policy. Although, you are missing the main point of what I'm trying to tell you. My point is Kalifa is undoubtedly massively inferior to Sanji. So, I'll tell you my reasons why:
1) As I explained before, Sanji almost knocked out Blueno, while Blueno used Tekkai. You can tell how his eyes went completely white, emphasizing the kick Sanji used was quite powerful to break through Blueno - the 4th strongest CP9 Agents, who's far stronger than Fukurou and Kumadori. But I'll elaborate on these two now.
2) Nami blatantly admitted Kumadori is stronger than her . Nami would have no reason to lie, since Robin's life was on the line and every minute counts. Nami, one of the coward trio, however was extremely confident in taking down Kalifa who's consistently portrayed as the weakest
3) Fukurou is pretty much self-explanatory, since he scales to Franky who kept up with Water Seven Luffy and was almost about to hurt Blueno. Fukurou is the 5th strongest, when he gave Franky so much trouble, Kalifa and Nami are undoubtedly weaker than him.
4) The way how Doriki is introduced to the Manga/Anime is that they are emphasizing the strength of a Rokushiki user, making it crystal clear who's the strongest and second strongest among them. Furthermore, it allows "us" viewers/readers to proper powerscaling the Strawhats and The CP9 Agents, as the feats shown in Enies lobby are consistent. Keep in mind Fukurou is excluding their Zoan boost, which further enhances their physical abilities. Meaning, Jabura is massively above likes such as Kalifa, Fukurou, Kumadori and Blueno. Simply going by feats Sanji>Monster Point Chopper, but going by your logic Kalifa>Monster Point Chopper (Do you see the contradiction here? Kalifa is way too weak to hurt Franky and Monster Point Chopper, so her hurting Sanji is just Oda trying to remind us of Sanji's chivalry and "All women are queen code".
5) I asked you for your definition of "little". Since Sanji in a rather poor state (He didn't completely recovered) went from being beaten up by a woman to keeping up with the third strongest CP9 Agent with ease. The Doriki difference between Jabra and Kalifa is massive and her only good feats were "hurting" said person who keeps up with the third strongest person while she couldn't even hurt Monster Point Chopper and was implied to be far weaker than Blueno (Inconsistencies??!). Since you don't wanna believe me, just look at these scans and tell me how exactly Sanji wasn't dominating in this fight, despite not in his best state? perhaps it's more accurate to describe it as "a hungry luffy fighting against an Enemy or Zoro without his durag and his two swords. In all seriousness, the manga contradicted Kalifa = Sanji because other than "beating sanji" what impressive feats has she done to make her stronger than already listed characters? your justifcation for kalifa hurting sanji heavily relies on the fact that she "herself" is that strong or not massively interior to him when the manga straight up said "Naaaaaah"
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Last time I checked, Violet is essentially a featless character without a character profile. Meaning, she doesn't scale to anyone and hasn't done anything impressive to convince anyone that she could keep up with Enies lobby Luffy or has the AP/DC to hurt him
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That's my height, too lol
Aside from that, the chapter was interesting. I liked the new techniques that Black Maria brought out, as well as Robin's new transformation/technique. The one thing I will say is that the fangs kind of made it look a tad lame. If it didn't have those, I think I'd like the design of it better.
Also, the thought of seeing an adult Momonosuke seems hype. Though I will say that one downside is that it seems like not a lot happened during this chapter. Robin fights, and potentially adult Momonosuke.
I give it a solid 8/10, but since when do people care about my opinion?
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Except Usopp never landed a hit on Jabra. Bad comparison
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So, uh, what's this debate here about? Women scaling to Sanji?
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It causes problems and inconsistencies in the powerscaling which is why i'm debating against this logic. It's basically saying a featless character such as Violet>>>Paramount War(Marineford) Strawhats, the other villains and characters because going by "that logic" Violet's AP scales to Sanji's durability same goes to Kalifa's as well (Pre-timeskip). When she was multiple times implied to be inferior to Blueno and the rest, and now Kalifa>>The rest including Jabra because she "hurt Sanji". Seriously, you don't have to be a genius to see how many inconsistencies it will cause. Imagine your mother fighting against Sanji, your mother will come out as a winner because of Sanji's "Simp Policy", so she would be pretty much have Large mountain lvl AP, but picks up a fight with Lucci, subsequently losing to him.
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Kalifa - Yes. She could still damage Sanji, Sanji complimented her strength, and iirc she even thought Sanji was stronger, which would mean she admits she downscales.
Violetta - Uh, what did she do again?
Nami - Not for gag scenes. However, she should downscale from Sanji for feats like fighting Kalifa back in Enies Lobby.
Black Maria - Yeah, she scales. She was holding back against a Sanji that weakened himself (and by that I mean he didn't use Haki) and took significant damage from her hits. She still didn't use any of her other special techniques on him, really. Just unnamed attacks. Plus, she could cut through some of Robin's limbs without too much difficulty. She scales.
Violetta - Uh, what did she do again?
Nami - Not for gag scenes. However, she should downscale from Sanji for feats like fighting Kalifa back in Enies Lobby.
Black Maria - Yeah, she scales. She was holding back against a Sanji that weakened himself (and by that I mean he didn't use Haki) and took significant damage from her hits. She still didn't use any of her other special techniques on him, really. Just unnamed attacks. Plus, she could cut through some of Robin's limbs without too much difficulty. She scales.
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Feats say otherwise. She fought against Sanji, who was actively holding back throughout their fight, so you could say he was "impressed that she could keep up with him despite holding back so hard", yet one kick from Sanji is enough to one shot her, especially the fact he broke through Jabra's Tekkai (who was stated to have the strongest Tekkai amongst the CP9) and almost knocked out Blueno. It's essentially like saying a non-serious Zoro compliments your skills the latter one shots you, meaning said opponent should scale to him despite his feats weren't really impressive. You need to keep in mind, she barely scratch Monster point Chopper and was far weaker than Franky, as mentioned above
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Repeatedly punching and kicking him. Pretty much the classic standards, i do recall she used weapons too, but was weaker than a character a serious or non-serious Sanji could one shot.
Makes more sense than the rest, because Maria compared to the others is consistently portrayed as pretty strong.
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Also regarding "Sanji complimenting Kalifa", Sanji said, "She indeed has superhuman strength" he wasn't implying she's "that" strong or "tougher/stronger" than Blueno" you could say he was merely surprised, if he were to imply she were "that strong" he would have straight up said that instead of saying the most obvious thing. I honestly don't know where you came to the conclusion that Sanji was "taking her serious" when he said that to her, you can tell alone by his actions that he was trying to make her "admit defeat" without touching her, every time he came close to hit her Sanji stated what would've happened if he didn't stopped his foot, basically announcing his "Win".
The moment Kalifa realize how outclassed she really is, she "will give him the key and Sanji wins without breaking his code". That was pretty much Sanji being too naive, further proves my point that there are no indication that Kalifa is remotely as strong as you make her sound to be, when feats and statements say otherwise. Let's take away Sanji vs Kalifa, and name me an impressive feat close to her hurting one of the Monster Trio
The moment Kalifa realize how outclassed she really is, she "will give him the key and Sanji wins without breaking his code". That was pretty much Sanji being too naive, further proves my point that there are no indication that Kalifa is remotely as strong as you make her sound to be, when feats and statements say otherwise. Let's take away Sanji vs Kalifa, and name me an impressive feat close to her hurting one of the Monster Trio
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Specialize in ≠ Strongest
Lucci has the strongest tekkai, Jabra just has the most variety
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I explicitly said "strongest Tekkai", not strongest durability. Sorry, I should've mentioned that. Similarly, how someone can claim to have the fastest Soru, but his speed isn't faster than Lucci. You catch my drift?
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I know, but it's never stated that Jabra has the strongest tekkai. And tekkai is just enhanced dura.
Jabra specializes in it, which means that he works with tekkai best. Similar to how Kaku had the best rankakyu but his rankakyu isn't over Lucci's.
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You didn't quite get what I mean. By strongest, I'm not suggesting Jabra's durability to be tougher than Lucci's, I'm literally quoting him, when he proudly declared that his Tekkai is the best amongst the CP9, since it's his main specialization, while Kaku's Rankyaku is the best amongst the CP9, but not stronger than Lucci. Lucci is more or less the balanced Guy, who has everything perfected and developed his own ultimate move, but doesn't really specialize in anything other than perfecting all Rokushiki techniques.
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Why is that part crossed out? ¯\(ツ)/¯
No he did. Which is why he won't show RS till Oda choses to focus on that battle to show the enhancements.
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Well, perhaps. It's more accurate to say he has never seen how much Lucci had improved within those 5 years. And just assumed that his Tekkai is still tougher than his (He can't cope with the fact that Lucci is stronger than him). Allow me to rephrase that Jabra has the "second thoughest/strongest Tekkai" amongst the CP9 Agents
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Oh dear God. Sanji fighting against Queen without RS, this will definitely create a flame war (100% guaranteed).
Hilariously enough, the people who will later hate the fact that Sanji without RS keep up with Hybrid Queen, are the same who want him to beat Kizaru 1vs1. Honestly, I really don't know whether people want Sanji to beat someone strong or not?
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Why do you say that Black Maria was holding back?
Jabra's specialization with respect to Tekkai lies in the fact that he can actually move and fight while in Tekkai - his signature style "Tekkai Kempo" revolves around it. AFAIK that seems to have been an ability unique to him (although I am not 100% sure if Lucci never showed that ability, what I do remember is both Lucci and Blueno going into Tekkai and absolutely eating Luffy's Jet gattling and bazooka respectively while basically rooting themselves to the ground). On the other hand, if Kaku did claim his rankyaku to be the best among the CP9, it may well be the most powerful one. In fact, his Amanedachi was clearly intended to be the most impressive showing of a rankyaku
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First, she was trying to get Sanji to call for Robin so she could kill her, not really intending to kill him. Secondly, she didn't really use any of her more powerful techniques such as her illusions, web flames, etc. on Sanji. Third, she gave the implication that she was going to get serious after Robin slapped her in the face.
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It's possible that she took him lightly because he was so easily captured by the webs
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Apparently, Maria loves to holding back against men. She views "cute men" as preys to be hunted and played. Naturally, she want to catch her prey alive, so she makes sure not to use all of her strength. After she caught her prey alive, she will using it for her amusement until she grow bored of it and destroy it.
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Hence why she said "we are both women, so I don't need to hold back"
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