Tien Shinhan, Krillin and possibly Yamcha should be upgraded to "at least High 5-A"

[Vizer04]

There is no way Gero could manage to calculate Namek Saga Goku's level of power

I mean, he wasn't surprised with Goku's power even if he got stronger since the Namek Saga.

Actually, the virus did affect and drain his stamina even before he went SSJ. He was out of breath after flying a fair distance, as noted by Tien.

Scans? I have to admit i don't remember this happening.

 

[Kin201]

Scans? I have to admit i don't remember this happening.

Well. You said the virus didn't affect him til he went SSJ. I'm just saying it is not true because the virus did affect him and drain his stamina despite him only flying. That's the first time we clearly see the virus affected him and he was in his base form.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

This is also before they even fought the Androids, so most people only knew Goku's power after that point while he's already out of breath and exhausted from the effects of the heart virus

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Yamcha should still be above 32,000 (Goku Kaio-Ken x4), and he wasn't going all out at the time either.

530,000+ is Dwarf Star level. Everything up to that point is Planet level.

 

[Vizer04]

530,000+ is Dwarf Star level. Everything up to that point is Planet level.

Vegeta was Dwarf Star level and he wasn't 530,000.

 

[Vizer04]

Well. You said the virus didn't affect him til he went SSJ. I'm just saying it is not true because the virus did affect him and drain his stamina despite him only flying. That's the first time we clearly see the virus affected him and he was in his base form.

Fair enough, but Goku's punch was still before that. Do you have proof that the heart virus was affecting him before? (not to mention it was only affecting his stamina, not his power)

 

[TimmyTurnero]

I don't think "along with" would have to be 1:1, if you want to be technical, it can just mean that when the power (level) increases the speed does too. When the power increases by 1, the speed can increase by some amount that doesn't have to be constant. I guess that is a nitpick though, probably won't fly here.

Along with, the literal definition states that moving in a constant direction (since its moving in a constant direction, increasing, it would indeed be the same) or meaning at the same time which in the context would be 1:1.
When your power increases by 2x, your speed does as well. Simple as that.

said that in my logic, even though Goku would be faster than Ginyu at max speed, it won't matter since Ginyu would be superior otherwise.

I also changed the links to Discord links so they should work, don't click on the already quoted text from previous replies, since they have the original broken link. Sorry about that, I didn't think it would be like this.

Your logic isnt justified and you still havent refuted my argument at all.

 

[Kin201]

Do you have proof that the heart virus was affecting him before?

No, I don't. That's the first time we clearly see the virus affected him. I just wanted to let you know that the virus did affect him before he went SSJ since you said it didn't.

not to mention it was only affecting his stamina, not his power

If his stamina is affected, his power level is as well. That's how things operate in DB. So he was weaker compared to his peak by an unknown amount.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Piccolo was obviously mocking 17 and 17 even harmed Piccolo so what is that proving? Also, where is that translation from

 

[Vizer04]

I don't. That's the first time we clearly see the virus affected him. I just wanted to let you know that the virus did affect him before he went SSJ since you said it didn't.

Understandable.

If his stamina is affected, his power level is as well. That's how things operate in DB. So he was weaker compared to his peak by an unknown amount.

Proof? Even with SSJ he wasn't all that weak, it was just his stamina that was failing.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

I do not agree with the OP. Goku wasn't really going all out or wasn't serious during this situation; not to mention there was also the heart virus thing coming later. Tien, Krillin, and Yamcha have no bearing to be above Frieza's 1st form let alone comparable to Goku was in Frieza saga. Yamcha was only though to be roughly as strong Goku was in Saiyan Saga with the Kaioken x4 being generous. It seems a like a weird loophole reasoning for an upgrade.

Goku and gang all had knowledge of the androids coming and they believed that these were indeed to androids that Trunks told them about. The androids that were strong enough to casually defeat Trunks despite him being capable of cutting frieza like butter. So youre trying to claim Goku wasnt serious? He was “going all out” despite seeing that his friend was being killed, and we literally see that Goku is visually mad. I do not see what suggests Goku isnt serious.

Yamcha was stated a good source of power to the androids. If he was only “kaioken x4 Goku” level then he would be nothing compared to these androids as they are somewhat comparable to ssj goku who (despite being weakened) was implied to have massive power meaning he is at least equal to his ssj form during namek saga.
If yamcha was a good source of power to them, then he would need to be near that level of power.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Proof? Even with SSJ he wasn't all that weak, it was just his stamina that was failing.

Skill issue

 

[Kin201]

Proof? Even with SSJ he wasn't all that weak, it was just his stamina that was failing.

Just because he didn't seem weak doesn't mean he wasn't weaker compared to his peak by an unknown amount. You want proof that stamina affects power level? You know the reason why SSJ Goku got stomped by a Cell Jr right? Because he was out of breath and had stamina issues from fighting Cell. He would have soloed all of the Cell Jr if he was at full power and 100% stamina.

 

[Vizer04]

That's after his stamina failed and the battle was prolongued, his power started to diminish.

And this has nothing to do with the discussion anyway, since that's SSJ Goku, and the transformation was accelerating the heart virus' effects.

 

[Kin201]

That's after his stamina failed and the battle was prolongued, his power started to diminish.

And this has nothing to do with the discussion anyway, since that's SSJ Goku, and the transformation was accelerating the heart virus' effects.

Well, I just wanted to explain that stamina does affect power level. If I didn't explain it properly, then I apologise. Basically, I don't have proof that the virus affected Goku when he punched Dr. Gero as I already said.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

That's after his stamina failed and the battle was prolongued, his power started to diminish.

And this has nothing to do with the discussion anyway, since that's SSJ Goku, and the transformation was accelerating the heart virus' effects.

That was literally at the start of the battle, Piccolo noticed something weird with Goku’s power. And what exactly is the discussion then?

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Well, I just wanted to explain that stamina does affect power level. If I didn't explain it properly, then I apologise. Basically, I don't have proof that the virus affected Goku when he punched Dr. Gero as I already said.

The virus effecting him already is a massive possibility given that while he was flying he was shown to be tired and he was sweating a lot the moment that hit the scene indicating he was tired aka in effect of the virus

 

[TimmyTurnero]

Well, I just wanted to explain that stamina does affect power level. If I didn't explain it properly, then I apologise. Basically, I don't have proof that the virus affected Goku when he punched Dr. Gero as I already said.

In dragon ball stamina is usually used for energy and when their stamina is dropping so do their strength I thought this was a well known fact

 

[Vizer04]

Goku's power level went from 416 to 924 with the Kamehameha. The Ki-Ko-Ho should have a similar effect on Tien's power level.

We know for a fact that Base Goku (Androids Saga) was stronger than Tien, and Tien could push Cell back with the Ki-Ko-Ho so he should be stronger than SSJ Goku.

Therefore, the Ki-Ko-Ho attack should multiply Tien's power level x50 (that's the SSJ multiplier)

During the Buu Saga, Tien should be 4-C (Star level)

 

[Vizer04]

And what exactly is the discussion then?

About Tien scaling to Base Goku.

 

[Vizer04]

So, what's the general consensus on this CRT? Should the upgrade be added to their profiles or not?

 

[Vizer04]

@DarkDragonMedeus
@DaReaperMan
@Gilad_Hyperstar

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

@DarkDragonMedeus
@DaReaperMan
@Gilad_Hyperstar

No. Not yet at the very least

The Humans, and even Base Goku don't scale to Gero in any way, so there's no reason to have the humans at Goku's level based on that

Besides, even if the feat was valid, only Tien did this feat. Why would Krillin scale to him? Same goes to Yamcha. We know they all got much stronger, but there's nothing that tells us by how much they became stronger

 

[Vizer04]

Vegeta (Post-Zenkai) < Tien (Androids Saga) < Base Goku (Androids Saga) ~< Dr. Gero

Tien should be between Vegeta and Goku in power, but closer to Goku. Both Goku and Tien had some trouble to dodge Gero's attack, while Vegeta couldn't even react to Frieza's Death Beam until it already reached Dende and killed him:

Frieza's Death Beam < Gero's Laser

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Vegeta could (he only reacted to this one; he didn't track it) see (here, he tracked Frieza, but big difference) the lasers.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Yeah, Vegeta was clearly able to react to the lasers, so that proves nothing yet

 

[DivineAura44]

Ignoring the fact that Dr. Gero is from the present, the only reason Android 19 surmised that Yamcha was Goku was because his power exceeded normal humans; "This guy's power has surpassed all known human limits. He must be Goku."

I know that, but it's implied that they were right in the original.

 

[DivineAura44]

He measured Goku's hypothetical power by projecting the "most extreme rate of improvement for an adult combatant". He does not know about their Accelerated Development or their Reactive Power Level should've followed him to Namek smh. This is taking into account the rate of improvement for humans across three years. There is no way Gero could manage to calculate Namek Saga Goku's level of power, since he only attained that power as a result of his Accelerated Development and Reactive Power Level, factors Gero neglected to include.

Which over three years should have gotten him to atleast End Of Namek Saga Goku.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

You're just hypothesizing- guessing really.

 

[Vizer04]

You're just hypothesizing- guessing really.

Gero wasn't even impressed with SSJ Goku (maybe a little bit, but he still believed that Android 19 could defeat him)

 

[SirAlex09]

Lol after seeing the newest special panel on Dragonball's "future" , Rip Dragonball lmfao

 

[Nullflowerblush]

he still believed that Android 19 could defeat him

and was proven wrong until the heart virus kicked in
EDIT: He looks surprised here.

 

[TimmyTurnero]

and got proved wrong

Because goku was suppressed then he started to go all out. Even when he first went ssj tien was surprised by this strength (despite him seeinf ssj goku vs trunks) meaning hes relative if not superior to that version of goku.
Anyways ima wait for staff input to say anything else, dont want to waste time on something if its not accepted

 

[Vizer04]

Besides, even if the feat was valid, only Tien did this feat. Why would Krillin scale to him? Same goes to Yamcha.

Yamcha: At least Dwarf Star level (His power grew enough that Dr. Gero and Android 19, who had knowledge of Goku's power during his battle with Vegeta, believed Yamcha to be Goku. Should not be much weaker than Krillin)

Krillin: At least Dwarf Star level (Not too far behind Tien at this time)

Tien: At least Dwarf Star level (Superior to Namek Saga Goku) far higher with Kikoho (Managed to pin Semi-Perfect Cell down by continuously using the attack, but this badly drained and nearly killed him) | Star level (Superior to his Android Saga self and capable of briefly distracting Buutenks) | Large Star level (Managed to destroy a good chunk of the Kachi Katchin arena, which should make him far stronger than Buu Saga Base Gohan, who was unable to destroy regular Katchin)

 

[Vizer04]

Lol after seeing the newest special panel on Dragonball's "future" , Rip Dragonball lmfao

What do you mean?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Yamcha: At least Dwarf Star level (His power grew enough that Dr. Gero and Android 19, who had knowledge of Goku's power during his battle with Vegeta, believed Yamcha to be Goku. Should not be much weaker than Krillin)

Krillin: At least Dwarf Star level (Not too far behind Tien at this time)

Tien: At least Dwarf Star level (Superior to Namek Saga Goku) far higher with Kikoho (Managed to pin Semi-Perfect Cell down by continuously using the attack, but this badly drained and nearly killed him) | Star level (Superior to his Android Saga self and capable of briefly distracting Buutenks)

Yamcha: First of all, why would Gero and 19 knowing Yamcha's power would be any more than Planet level? They did not followed them to Namek and they only know about his power during the Saiyan Saga where Goku is 5-B

Krillin: Why would Krillin scale to Tien??? This statement has nothing to support it

Tien: Why would Tien be superior to Namek Saga Goku? And why Buu Saga Tien is 4-C?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

and was proven wrong until the heart virus kicked in
EDIT: He looks surprised here.

And let's not forget Goku is heavily weakened here from the virus, and was weakening rapidly the worse the effects became

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

3D animation .. and the new DBS movie will be about super heroes etc.. The new characters look like Rip off Xenoverse avatars

How is that relating to the subject here? Please stop derailing this thread

 

[Vizer04]

Yamcha: First of all, why would Gero and 19 knowing Yamcha's power would be any more than Planet level? They did not followed them to Namek and they only know about his power during the Saiyan Saga where Goku is 5-B

They estimated Goku's possible power after three years of growth. Yamcha wasn't even at full power at that moment.

Krillin: Why would Krillin scale to Tien??? This statement has nothing to support it

Krillin has always been close to Tien in power, even in DBS after years of not training (and Tien trains every single day)

Tien: Why would Tien be superior to Namek Saga Goku?

Read all the thread and the comments, you will understand why i came to that conclusion and almost everyone agreed with it.

And why Buu Saga Tien is 4-C?

It's an estimation based on his speed of growth.

 

[Vizer04]

Basically, the three of them are superior and scale to Goku (Namek Saga)