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Instant Death Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Oblivion_Of_The_Endless
- Start date
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- #162
LN is better. It has better translation and every new volume a new chapter of Yogiri's backstory is revealed. WN doesnt have any of this, although its translation is pretty decent on earlier volumes, but thats about it I guess
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- #164
At this point, yeah, it seems so.
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- #166
He embodies nonexistence/void that predates all of the conceptual creation + Not even UEG could comprehend it, being helplessly erased by it.
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this part is not really relevant tbh
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- #168
I mean, she has NEP2 and Yogiri's nothingness is stated to overcome all others as well, so yeah.
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- #170
From what Elizhaa said, it seems good enough to be NEP2
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- #171
I mean
Shar
Shar is the embodiment of darkness as well as an evil goddess in Dungeons and Dragons. She has been described multiple times as being beautiful. She is described in ancient myths as the being that formed from the primordial void that existed before any material things were introduced by Lord Ao...
vsbattles.fandom.com
"Such entities are typically presented as primordial voids or pure emptiness, or any abstract state which precedes or opposes the state of existence on all levels."
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Elizhaa said that's only a possibility for NEP type 2...and idk much about Shar so I won't talk about it,but anyways I'm pretty sure primordial concept exists and it's concept type 2 instead of having no concept
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Are there many differences only in terms of prehistory?
I read the manga and Yogiri's backstory is similar to SCP experiments.
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- #177
Better translation, and some grammar mistakes are fixed here and there + Fujitaka added a few extra scenes but nothing of much relevancy aside from that
For example, in Volume 4 of WN, Yogiri and Mana do not interact directly and he rather kills her from a distance without warning, while in the LN she notices and even talks to him before getting noped after she tries to punch him.
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- #178
Well, from what we know as of now
1. When Yogiri was a baby, he was constantly put into a dream state to prevent him from destroying the world (a hungry baby that can kill things by thinking is very dangerous after all). And it seems that despite being a baby, he could still automatically counter-attack with perfect accuracy towards anyone who attacked him.
2. "Yogiri" seems to be the name of the current vessel, as the thing reincarnates once every hundred years.
3. His power can manifest through videos and cameras, even if not in real time. For example, if you record Yogiri killing someone, not only you'll die in the proccess, but also anyone who watches said video (doesnt matter if its years later after the incident) will instantly die as well. This event stopped happening when the facility made Yogiri's appearance unrecognizable in the video (editing does not work).
4. Since his very childhood, he was constantly surrounded by black shadows who tries to attack him.
5. One day his mother accidentally entered an alternate reality, in which several bizarre monsters existed (she described as hell itself). Yogiri then later came to her rescue by tearing reality apart to create portals (killing space to travel throgh dimensions) and killed the creatures alongside the dimension itself (interesting to note that the celestial bodies began to fall from orbit until everything collapsed)
6. Yogiri can control what his true form does (or they simply act in tandem), since when Abyss King was defeated by The Eyes, Yogiri said that he trapped him, implying that the Eyes from the true form is also the avatar's work or vice-versa
7. Yogiri wasnt the only one with superpower on the original Earth, and even Gods and Dark Gods existed.
8. Yogiri's true form is seemingly Nigh-Omniscient
9. He can bless someone with automatic killing. For example, even if Yogiri is far away from person X, if you try to attack person X, you'll die instantly. Yogiri mentions that he could do this to her mother to protect her, but prefers not to for reasons that he didnt elaborate.
2. "Yogiri" seems to be the name of the current vessel, as the thing reincarnates once every hundred years.
3. His power can manifest through videos and cameras, even if not in real time. For example, if you record Yogiri killing someone, not only you'll die in the proccess, but also anyone who watches said video (doesnt matter if its years later after the incident) will instantly die as well. This event stopped happening when the facility made Yogiri's appearance unrecognizable in the video (editing does not work).
4. Since his very childhood, he was constantly surrounded by black shadows who tries to attack him.
5. One day his mother accidentally entered an alternate reality, in which several bizarre monsters existed (she described as hell itself). Yogiri then later came to her rescue by tearing reality apart to create portals (killing space to travel throgh dimensions) and killed the creatures alongside the dimension itself (interesting to note that the celestial bodies began to fall from orbit until everything collapsed)
6. Yogiri can control what his true form does (or they simply act in tandem), since when Abyss King was defeated by The Eyes, Yogiri said that he trapped him, implying that the Eyes from the true form is also the avatar's work or vice-versa
7. Yogiri wasnt the only one with superpower on the original Earth, and even Gods and Dark Gods existed.
8. Yogiri's true form is seemingly Nigh-Omniscient
9. He can bless someone with automatic killing. For example, even if Yogiri is far away from person X, if you try to attack person X, you'll die instantly. Yogiri mentions that he could do this to her mother to protect her, but prefers not to for reasons that he didnt elaborate.
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thanks but does that mean he also killed many innocent ppl in his original world?
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- #180
If you are referring to the video/camera case, yeah, but that was moreso the facility's fault since they were using said videos for experiments. What happens when you watch the video is technically not Yogiri's fault, at least not directly.
Now...The Agency once abducted Asaka (Yogiri's mother) and were planning to kill her or smth. Yogiri notices that his mother was taking too long to come back (and later discovers she was kidnapped) and decides to leave his containment by himself (this is where he manifests his power through tech for the 2nd time).
So yeah, Kid Yogiri was quite wild.
Well tbf, the Agency were not saints either, and as he was just a kid looking for/trying to save his mother, I guess its not all that bad, but eh.
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so basically nothing will happen if someone watching him directly instead of through camera?If you are referring to the video/camera case, yeah, but that was moreso the facility's fault since they were using said videos for experiments. What happens when you watch the video is technically not Yogiri's fault, at least not directly.
Now...The Agency once abducted Asaka (Yogiri's mother) and were planning to kill her or smth. Yogiri notices that his mother was taking too long to come back (and later discovers she was kidnapped) and decides to leave his containment by himself (this is where he manifests his power through tech for the 2nd time).
So yeah, Kid Yogiri was quite wild.He is matured now though
Well tbf, the Agency were not saints either, and as he was just a kid looking for/trying to save his mother, I guess its not all that bad, but eh.
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- #182
Yeah
He only appears in the LN, Volume 4
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look like in LN maybe he can have some new feats like immortality type 6,portal creation,dimensional travel,instinctive reaction,interdimensional range,possibly precog and cosmic awareness(depend on how his omniscience works) and power bestowal(give someone blessing) I guess
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Yogiri's true form case does sound like it has type 2 nonexistence. I was iffy about the ability since it didn't seem properly described in the Web Novel when I made the statement but it was in the later chapters of the Web Novel and I didn't know the Light Novel canon status; if the Light Novel doesn't deviate much its supporting statement could still apply to the Web Novel.
Plus, arguments from Oblivion's NEP Type 2 case can also be applied to Yogiri's true form case.
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Well, so far the only major thing that the WN doesnt have is Yogiri's backstory. Everything else is pretty much the same plot-wise.
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but why predating to all concepts is equalivent to having no concept since concept type 2 is no different?I want a true explanation and tbh I can also bring another verse that has primordial nothingness but doesn’t have NEP type 2 but whataboutism sucks so I don’t do that
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Concept type 2, in general, doesn't predate all concepts; predating all concepts varied a lot depending on the descriptions.
Concepts type 2 are just independent of the objects and/or beings they represent so if all of these are altered or destroyed, those concepts won't be affected, unlike those at lower type.
I don't get the latter points. In my view as a summary, one should have the correct evidences that support the descriptions match what is described in the power's page. if the descriptions from the evidence matches, then the power is fine; no whataboutism are needed.
I don't know the full contexts so I can't comment much on that verse.
Concepts type 2 are just independent of the objects and/or beings they represent so if all of these are altered or destroyed, those concepts won't be affected, unlike those at lower type.
I don't get the latter points. In my view as a summary, one should have the correct evidences that support the descriptions match what is described in the power's page. if the descriptions from the evidence matches, then the power is fine; no whataboutism are needed.
I don't know the full contexts so I can't comment much on that verse.
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I mean Yogiri’s existence predates everything in existence so he embodies type 2 concept,same as rukh from Magi
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Yeah, as expected.
I would love to read but I won't be able to buy physical copies at the current climate (I only buy physical ones, not digital).
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For a concept, predating all of existence can serve as evidence for the concept is unbound by its related objects and/or beings.
Yogiri's case from what I recall was scaling to the Heavenly Records at best when his final form as the end of everything was less defined. I think Magi's case was different.
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what I mean is,if there is a concept that can predate all of existence then why we assume that predating all of existence is equivalent to not having concept=NEP type 2?
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No, the judgment is on a case-by-case basis, in short. Additionally, for NEP Type, one should make sure feats match the power description.
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Well, Yogiri True Form void is incompreensible even to UEG (has NEP 2)
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you don’t need to be incomprehensible to have NEP type 2 lol,irrelevant,I still don’t see any NEP type 2 tbh
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UEG (NEP 2) was voided in Yogiri Void, and the LN chapter 2 (iirc) even mentioned Nonexistence about yogiri true body
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being nonexistence proves nothingBut even Nonexistence was mentioned about yogiri true body in the light novel
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stated to be a void.....lacks everything and predates everything....stated to be nonexistent.....his void even could fully absorb/voidhax NEP 2 characters....
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since when it is said that he lacks everything?about predating read above,his void hax affecting NEP type 2 is nothing rather than NPI feat so try to use better argument instead of spamming ton of redundant feats
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Because its stated to be the embodiment of the nonexistence
Its not redundant, he is stated to be the nonexistence that would overcome all others, which is exactly what happend to UEG and her Nonexistence.
''Not being able to quickly grasp the situation, UEG was dumbfounded for a while. However, time is subjective, and in reality, not much time has passed. In front of UEG, there was an endless darkness. A void of nothingness. Lou and his friends who had confronted her earlier were nowhere to be seen, and only UEG and a boy were there. "First of all, I know I sound like I know everything, but I don't really know anything. Basically, I'm just saying what I want to say, so you can think of it as a joke." "......What the hell are you?" "You may call me The Descending Dragon. I'm the god who manages this world. Recently, I've finally regained my position as Administrator. I'm glad to see things are going pretty much the way I want them to, and I feel pretty good about it." ".......God? I couldn't sense any presence from you at all." "You did well. When I found out that you were resurrected, I tried my best to hide my presence. Well, even if I had been found, I doubt I would have been considered a strong enough person by your standards." Indeed, The Descending Dragon didn't look so strong. The ones from the Slow Life Alliance were probably much stronger. However, he seems to be very good at hiding his presence, and I wouldn't know if he's really weak until I fought him. "......What are you doing here?" "What is it? For someone who's always been so arrogant, why is your reaction rather slow? Are you confused by the situation?" UEG was indeed puzzled. She was shocked at herself for being confused. For UEG, where almost everything goes as she expected, it was impossible for her to find himself in a completely unexpected situation.
"I asked what the hell is this!" "What is it you ask? It's the gap between life and death, or a singularity, or a flashback, or even a dream. A glimmer moment before death? I wonder if it is a temporary breakdown caused by the confirmation of cause and effect. You're not dead yet, but you're a shadow figure that captures the moment of transition from life to death that occurs when death is confirmed...... Well, you can interpret it however you like." "I'm not convinced, but why are you here?" "I was looking for an opportunity. I wanted to say "That's what you get!". Takatou-kun wouldn't say such a thing, so I wanted to at least say it and clear my mind. Well, I can't come to this incomprehensible place, so I'm just projecting my shadow at the moment." "....I see. this definitely seemed to be a phenomenon that even the wisdom of mistress could not comprehend. But, would the mistress die? I don't know where I am, but I just have to move to wherever it is I'm going." UEG explored the area. The darkness went on forever, really forever. It goes on and on, endlessly, as far as UEG's perception can go. Then she tried to find another dimension, another parallel world, another universe, but that didn't work either. What she see is nothing but emptiness. There really is nothing here. Realizing this, UEG was slowly beginning to feel fear. No matter where she tried to go, there was nothing. As long as there was nothing, there was nowhere to travel to. "Well, then! I'll destroy everything! Space-time! The universe! The higher universes, including that one too!" UEG unleashed all of her power with all of her might, but the power that was supposed to destroy everything disappeared into the void. The power of UEG had no effect on the surroundings. "It's useless. There's nothing here. You can't destroy something that isn't there."
"I...I don't understand ...... what the hell is this ...... thing called Takato?" UEG had never even heard of such a existence. They had never even imagined that such a person existed. "Yes. There are different kinds of gods. It's divided into those who know about it and those who don't. Most of the gods who don't know about it are unprincipled and think they can do anything, and are therefore powerful. On the other hand, the gods who know about it are relatively calm and don't do anything too crazy. Or rather, they can't. They know their limits. "What is that thing?! What do you think you're doing!" "Nooo. I don't know what it is either, so I'm just making it fluffy. I don't know what it is, and I don't want to know, but our origin has a sense of moderation. For example, We think that maybe there are beings out there that we can't even imagine. I think that there may be something that is watching the gods, just like the humans tell us not to do bad things because the gods are watching them." Even so, she couldn't have believed it outright. This is because a god like UEG, who thinks she is on top of the world, cannot possibly understand it.
"Yeah. I'm glad to see you fluttering in a hurry. It's a shame we can't send this information to my main body." However, despite UEG's request, the illusion who called himself the Dragon disappeared into the darkness. "Well, then you can make a world here." If there is nothing and nowhere to go, then she can create it here herself. She is a god, so she can at least do creation. It should be possible, but no matter what was made, it immediately melted into the darkness. Nothing is allowed to exist here. And UEG realized that she was in the process of melting into the darkness. She tried to keep herself together somehow, but gradually she began to lose sight of what she was doing. "...... why...... why should the mistress go through this ......" UEG lost her shape, lost sense of who she was, and eventually disappeared into the darkness.''
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