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Naruto: The power to change reality (Izanagi and Izanami)

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Heya! This is a Naruto CRT. Let's talk e y e s.

What are they?

The Izanagi and the Izanami are two sides of the same coin, with the Izanami being created specifically to counteract the Izanagi.

The Izanagi is, as Tobi describes it, "the practical application of the Creation of All Things Technique", invoking a similar effect which "blurs the lines between fact and fiction", rewriting reality itself. This allows those of the Izanagi to erase an undesired outcome from reality entirely and then select the most desirable end result.

The Izanami is the foil to the Izanagi. Rather than rewriting fate and reality, the Izanami recreates one's original fate, eternally replaying an event for the target. By "recording one and one's target's senses and replaying them indefinitely", as Itachi puts it, those of the Izanami can warp the branches of reality themselves and force a target into an infinite loop.

What does this mean?

It's simple.
Both the Izanagi and the Izanami are examples of Causality Manipulation. Think King Crimson and Gold Experience Requiem from JoJo's Bizarre Adventure.

Those of the Izanagi can bring fantasy into reality by manipulating causality, erasing an undesirable outcome from one's cause and effect, and replacing that outcome with a more favorable end result. This allows them to control their personal cause and effect (i.e., Danzō and Tobi removing their deaths from reality), thus allowing their fantasy (the desired outcome; O) to blend into reality (the original outcome; X); this is the King Crimson.

On the other hand, those of the Izanami can directly oppose and counter the Izanagi, looping reality (the original outcome; X) infinitely for the target, producing a loop within their minds, and thus preventing fantasy (the desired outcome; O) from being realized. Itachi used this to replay the final moments of his battle with Kabuto infinitely, with Kabuto being forced to perform the same motions for the rest of eternity; this is the Gold Experience Requiem.

It's either that or this is just a really bad misinterpretation of these abilities and they are actually Subjective Reality and Sense Manipulation respectively

Conclusions

Users of Izanagi (Danzō Shimura, Edo Tensei Madara Uchiha, "Tobi"):
Users of Izanami (Edo Tensei Itachi Uchiha):
This was written on a restricted WiFi connection, so it would be impossible for me to look into the pages to see what would be missing but just in case it is not there, users of the Izanagi and Izanami should have: "Using the Iza[nagi/nami] results in one's Sharingan going blind. Subsequently, attaining the Rinnegan is the only way to restore one's eyesight."
 
Izanagi looks fine to me.

Izanami, however, I disagree with. It does trap the victim in an Infinite loop based on recorded events, but it's purely mental. It's just an illusion, the loop isn't actually real outside of the user's mind.
 
That seems fair. I, myself, was initially skeptical about what to label the Izanami as. It seems like merely a suped-up illusion at first glance, but then Itachi went on about how it looped the paths of reality that Izanagi travels through, and it confused me. To me, it would be rather odd for an illusion to counter Causality Manipulation but then, it hit me that rather than actually negating the effects of Izanagi, it simply prevents the user from using it.
 
That seems fair. I, myself, was initially skeptical about what to label the Izanami as. It seems like merely a suped-up illusion at first glance, but then Itachi went on about how it looped the paths of reality that Izanagi travels through, and it confused me. To me, it would be rather odd for an illusion to counter Causality Manipulation but then, it hit me that rather than actually negating the effects of Izanagi, it simply prevents the user from using it.
That's exactly what it does, yes. We see that outside of the illusion the victim is completely immobilized and helpless, which would logically prevent them from using Izanagi by default.
 
So, the Izanagi users get Causality Manipulation, and Itachi either gets an extra ability added to his Illusion Creation justification or Sense Manipulation (I propose either option because the page for Sense Manipulation describes it as a component of Illusion Creation).
 
Subjective Reality is the power that allows the user to manipulate the boundary between reality and unreality.

Negation: By making a recent event unreal, the user is capable to undo and erase any consequence produced by it. The user could be capable to negate attacks, injuries and even death.

Scan of the feat...

I don't know, seems a lot more like Subjective Reality than Causality Manipulation to me.
 
Scan of the feat...

I don't know, seems a lot more like Subjective Reality than Causality Manipulation to me.
Sure, despite that the way that Itachi explains it sounds way more like Causality Manipulation, but it can be just subjective reality as well, I just think that it is explained like erasing events to have others results, which can fit more like causality, but idk
 
I'm neutral towards Izanagi, I think both could work, but I'm leaning more towards Subjective Reality atm.

I've already explained my thoughts on Izanami, so yeah.
 
Looking at it more, Subjective Reality does seem to fit better.
 
So nothing gets changed then. Damn.

Although, I would like to point out that Obito has "Limited Reality Warping" instead of Subjective Reality.
 
That seems fair. I, myself, was initially skeptical about what to label the Izanami as. It seems like merely a suped-up illusion at first glance, but then Itachi went on about how it looped the paths of reality that Izanagi travels through, and it confused me. To me, it would be rather odd for an illusion to counter Causality Manipulation but then, it hit me that rather than actually negating the effects of Izanagi, it simply prevents the user from using it.
Isn't this technically power null?

I haven't read past this part yet but I feel like this would technically be power null. Not 100% sure.
 
Isn't this technically power null?

I haven't read past this part yet but I feel like this would technically be power null. Not 100% sure.
Paralysis. Stops the user from being able to activate their abilities.

It's like cutting off a ninja's hands so they can't form hand seals, or pulling out a dojutsu user's eyes to stop them from doing that.
 
Isn't this technically power null?

I haven't read past this part yet but I feel like this would technically be power null. Not 100% sure.
The user is completely immobilized while they're in the illusion/loop, so they can't really use any Jutsu to begin with.
Izanami essentially prevents them from using their abilities, rather than nullify them if that makes sense.
 
Ok, that makes more sense. The way it was put initially just made it sound like it cancels Izanagi and nullifies it entirely.
 
This thread can probably be closed FRA.

Although, we could probably update the description of Izanagi on those three pages and Izanami (either under "greater Illusion Creation" or Sense Manipulation) to Itachi's page.
 
Sharingan genjutsu users need better descriptions in general tbh. They need better, more specific, justifications with scans and descriptions for each of their genjutsu application. I'll work on that soon, but I have a lot on my plate rn.
 
Sharingan genjutsu users need better descriptions in general tbh. They need better, more specific, justifications with scans and descriptions for each of their genjutsu application. I'll work on that soon, but I have a lot on my plate rn.
Like that Itachi Feat with the Aburame Clan member.
 
Agree on the izanagi being causality. But it's only limited to the users reality as stated by obito.
 
Izanami won't be causality manipulation
Izanagi can either be reality warping (since its basically rewriting reality to your desired effect) or causality manipulation (since you can change cause and effect to what you will)

I guest either is fine

Can it be both?

Sharingan genjutsu users need better descriptions in general tbh. They need better, more specific, justifications with scans and descriptions for each of their genjutsu application. I'll work on that soon, but I have a lot on my plate rn.
If you need help with that, I will gladly give a helping hand, we have tsukuyomi controlling space and time.
In fact tsukuyomi was stated to create a separate world of its own.
Anyway when you are about to begin, send me a DM I will provide the scans
 
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