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The Return: Nonexistent Physology Issues

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GreatIskandar14045

GreatIskandar14045

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If I'm not misinterpreting it, conceptual nonexistent is strictly necissitate in order to be qualified as type 2, otherwise they're only type 1.

Issue: We are equating every characters who are erased from history and plot/narrative to merely a conventional nonexistent (literally just lacking body, soul, mind) although obviously the formers are superior, how can characters with NEP 1 NPI are capable to interract to those who gets yeeted from the narrative and all of history? Real question.

My suggestion here is to change the basis of type 2, from the state of nonexistence at a conceptual level to fundamental level(s) of existence, it will be treated similarly to High-Godly regeneration, its potential will vary (maybe plot>concept>history Idk) but ultimately are still superior to the type 1.

Or put them at type 1 but in order to interract with X level you need X level of feat, being able to affect a subtype of a nonexistent doesn't mean a character can affect all types of nonexistent, although I'm not sure if being nonexistent within a plot is any lower than a concept.
 
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Thelastmlg said:
You can't tag people unless you are staff, gotta link him the thread on his wall.

As for the thread, agreed, idk about history but being erased at a narrative level should make you comparably hard to interact with as on a conceptual level.
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I personally think being a nonexistent in entire history should give you a pseudo-invulnerability like type 5 acausality, because at that moment you were completely absent at all points of time.
 
I agree that narrative erasure should grant NEP2, that should've been a thing a long time ago.

Not sure about history erasure though. I'm not sure if its at the same level as Narrative erasure, or conceptual erasure, though it should give shit like Acausality and stuff.
 
Rikimarox2 said:
I agree that narrative erasure should grant NEP2, that should've been a thing a long time ago.

Not sure about history erasure though. I'm not sure if its at the same level as Narrative erasure, or conceptual erasure, though it should give shit like Acausality and stuff.
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Well, like High-Godly regeneration I mean, it can still fall into the same type although is inferior to concept and narrative.
 
I agree,being non existent due to narrative EE should be superior to NEP type 1 because it doesn't exist within the plot while NEP type 1 is still affected by said frame normally
 
So now, for now the clear difference between NEP1 and NEP2 is that the difference is on a conceptual level ?

And also, being existence and non-existence at same time it's count as NEP2? or just NEP1 because being non-existence even though being existence too
 
megaraptor said:
So now, for now the clear difference between NEP1 and NEP2 is that the difference is on a conceptual level ?

And also, being existence and non-existence at same time it's count as NEP2? or just NEP1 because being non-existence even though being existence too
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NEP 2 is always a nonexistent state on conceptual level, or something equal to it. The binary explanation I believe is just an analogy.

Edit: rewording
 
I am the wrong person to ask about this, especially as I am extremely overworked right now, and distracted IRL.

@DontTalkDT @Elizhaa

What do you think about this?
 
Tbh I have no idea what the currently employed standards are on the matter.
If we maintain the idea of type 2, then erasure from history or plot shouldn't be that. Type 2 is for erasure where not even nothing remains. Stuff that can only be reached via logic breaking powers. Honestly, I'm not even sure whether conceptual erasure should qualify per default.
So for the time being I would place basic plot/history erasure at Type 1.

If we are going to revise what the types are in general I would want to open another big can of worms. Because IMO that power is in need of some more practically orientated explanations and norms.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Tbh I have no idea what the currently employed standards are on the matter.
If we maintain the idea of type 2, then erasure from history or plot shouldn't be that. Type 2 is for erasure where not even nothing remains. Stuff that can only be reached via logic breaking powers. Honestly, I'm not even sure whether conceptual erasure should qualify per default.
So for the time being I would place basic plot/history erasure at Type 1.

If we are going to revise what the types are in general I would want to open another big can of worms. Because IMO that power is in need of some more practically orientated explanations and norms.
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Well, if conceptual, plot/narrative, and history erasures are all types 1, aren't all of them still eventually superior to conventional nonexistent?
 
DontTalkDT said:
Tbh I have no idea what the currently employed standards are on the matter.
If we maintain the idea of type 2, then erasure from history or plot shouldn't be that. Type 2 is for erasure where not even nothing remains. Stuff that can only be reached via logic breaking powers. Honestly, I'm not even sure whether conceptual erasure should qualify per default.
So for the time being I would place basic plot/history erasure at Type 1.

If we are going to revise what the types are in general I would want to open another big can of worms. Because IMO that power is in need of some more practically orientated explanations and norms.
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As always I strongly trust your sense of judgement in these areas. If you wish to start a staff discussion about this, feel free to do so.
 
Antoniofer said:
Personally, "erased from the plot" sounds more like en expression of acausality, like a being that was removed from the script but still remain interacting with elements from the story.
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The problem is, both plot and story can be synonymous, it works as sequence of events within a fiction through the causal principle, it's metaphysical, yeeting ones from a plot means yeeting them from the story itself. It can't be below concepts in any means, heck you can even argue that concepts are still bounded within the plot/story/narrative.
 
Don't think that plot and story being synonymous change anything. The power to "not being bounded by x" is a kin to acausality, not NEP (I see people mix these two a lot); if someone did simply get yetted from the storyline but remain "walking around" there then being removed its not something considered worse than death; although as one may expect, it can now [at least marginally] defiance the rules of the story.
 
Antoniofer said:
Don't think that plot and story being synonymous change anything. The power to "not being bounded by x" is a kin to acausality, not NEP (I see people mix these two a lot); if someone did simply get yetted from the storyline but remain "walking around" there then being removed its not something considered worse than death; although as one may expect, it can now [at least marginally] defiance the rules of the story.
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Let's say if that's just an acausality, what type would it be? And shouldn't all history erasure survival as nonexistent should grants ones acausality as well?
 
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When I say Acausality I refer to the definition in general, the ability that allows one to defiance and ignore rules and such; what type specifically? I believe 2 or perhaps 4 in extreme cases, but rather that grants it a set of abilities to a characters (not a fan of types), I rather write the applications of the character Acausality.

As for a character that is "erased from plot" and still interact with it its kind of paradoxical, at all points it does not act different than another character with Plot Manipulation.
 
megaraptor said:
I think that's Type 1
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I meant the acausality type. Alovenus, as far as I know gets type 5 via vanishing herself from all history as she never existed, after transcending herself into a godhood, if that alone is enough then a nonexistent state from all history erasure should grant ones NEP 1 and type 5 acausality, plot should be the same but is more meta.
 
Antoniofer said:
When I say Acausality I refer to the definition in general, the ability that allows one to defiance and ignore rules and such; what type specifically? I believe 2 or perhaps 4 in extreme cases, but rather that grants it a set of abilities to a characters (not a fan of types), I rather write the applications of the character Acausality.

As for a character that is "erased from plot" and still interact with it its kind of paradoxical, at all points it does not act different than another character with Plot Manipulation.
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How 2? They are neither exist in present, it would be type 4 at worst.
 
Antoniofer said:
When I say Acausality I refer to the definition in general, the ability that allows one to defiance and ignore rules and such; what type specifically? I believe 2 or perhaps 4 in extreme cases, but rather that grants it a set of abilities to a characters (not a fan of types), I rather write the applications of the character Acausality.

As for a character that is "erased from plot" and still interact with it its kind of paradoxical, at all points it does not act different than another character with Plot Manipulation.
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So why that can got Type 2?

So because he itself only exist in present. It's automatically he don't have history because don't have past or even future?
 
GreatIskandar14045 said:
I meant the acausality type. Alovenus, as far as I know gets type 5 via vanishing herself from all history as she never existed, after transcending herself into a godhood, if that alone is enough then a nonexistent state from all history erasure should grant ones NEP 1 and type 5 acausality, plot should be the same but is more meta.
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Many case like Eternals from Eien Shinken but it's only got Type 4. Eternals itself are freed from the time axis in which they were born. So all memories and histories about them is got erased but the Eternals still exist.

If im not mistakes
 
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I'm expecting more staffs here, but seems like this thread is controversial enough to make them hesitate to step in, no offense.

megaraptor said:
So because he itself only exist in present. It's automatically he don't have history because don't have past or even future?
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Being exist only in the present makes the past and future nonexistent.

megaraptor said:
Many case like Eternals from Eien Shinken but it's got Type 4. Eternals itself are freed from the time axis in which they were born. So all memories and histories about them is got erased but the Eternals still exist.
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I think we should differentiate a state where you are freed from all history, and a state where you are nonexistent in all history just like you are never existed.
 
I still think pseudo-invulnerability like type 5 acausality is warranted for an absence in all history, do tell me how can you interrract to a being that never existed in the first place, it's not like the idea of "you" is gone but your entire actions within the timeline(s) are nulled.
 
If there is the context where plot/history are fundamental to the verse, and the context that the characters were actually erased are present, I could, in theory, be okay with the changes.
Though, I am fine with waiting for DontTalk's thread on the matter first.
DontTalkDT said:
Type 2 is for erasure where not even nothing remains. Stuff that can only be reached via logic breaking powers. Honestly, I'm not even sure whether conceptual erasure should qualify per default.
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When it was being made, there was a possibility of making a new type where the current type 2 would be Type 2 around the same but a type 3 NEP would beyond all conceptual frameworks. It did get changed here.
Then, Type 2 was initially beyond all conceptual frameworks to any degree. The critical issue was that it seems like it would be applied to tier like Tier 0 and High 1-A only. Ao, the idea was scrapped for nonexistence at a conceptual level; giving that specific 1-A and up abilities are likely to remove like Conceptual Manipulation Type 1, something more encompassing of also lower tiers would be needed.
Though, if the idea is changed back, the "degree" should be limited to the characters' level of existence and what is transcend like the new proposal on a Transduality Type 2; though, I think it would be a good idea to make a new type regarding the changes.
Couple with the previous points, I guess using a similar system to what Matthew defined in the past thread could be ideal.

I guess this point is more of another thread topic.
 
DontTalk, Antoniofer, and Elizhaa:

So what should we do here?
 
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