About Yu Yu Hakusho's high tiers...

[Starter_Pack]

Can someone please explain to me where the heck Yu Yu Hakusho gets its High 6-A scaling from? It seems to be another problematic circular scaling chain happening here, with Yusuke Urameshi scaling to the power of Yomi, who in turn scales to Yusuke.

Where does this end? And where does it even start? I feel like this is something that should be fixed in the profiles, but first I'd just like my question answered.

 

[Chariot190]

I vaguely recall something about being able to obliterate japan from a fodder and then some ranking system fuckery upscaling for the top.
It's been like, 15 years tho.

 

[Starter_Pack]

@DarkDragonMedeus @The_real_cal_howard @Soldier_Blue @SinsofMan @The_Calaca

I apologize for mass pinging you all, but do you think you could help answer my question?

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

It starts with Sensui since he's got a 6-A calc, and I think the High 6-A's are upscaled to that tier from 6-A.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Yeah they upscaling from Sensui. Lower S and Upper S is a gigantic gap.

 

[Starter_Pack]

Yeah they upscaling from Sensui. Lower S and Upper S is a gigantic gap.

I am glad to have this straightened up. And again, I think it would help a lot to explain this in the profiles.

 

[Ovy7]

Actually, looking at Sensui's reasoning for 6-A, to me it seems very shoddy. The reasoning is that he created a highly destructive earthquake on a global scale, and that links to a blog by DMUA for Shaking the Earth Standards. The problem here is that I didn't find anything even remotely implying Sensui was shacking the entire planet, hell, at most we only see the hills above the cave shaking, and a city nearby only has a minor quake. This is a far cry from "triggering a highly destructive earthquake on a global scale", as his profile claims.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It comes from a statement that Sensui said he cannot unleash 50% of his power without causing the entire human world to collapse. It was FateAlbane that did the translations; he was collapsing the cave which is Magnitude 6 at minimum, and it's unknown how much power he was using at the time; but a lot less than 1% most likely. However, 50% of his power was considered enough to basically wipe out all life on the planet just by stressing the planet. It's over a Petaton, but 100% would make it over 2 Petatons. And characters like Hokushin were stated to be more than twice as strong as Sensui, with plenty of characters being multitudes stronger than that.

However, according to what KLOL told me on another thread, he said Magnitude 7 from a distance might actually be more reasonable to cause "And entire human world collapsation". Which would make the initial feat High 6-A outright. And yeah, while the giant ass gap stuff could lead to a a lot of stacking. It stated that gap between Sensui's power and Raizen, is even greater than the gap between Sensui's power and the strength of the tiniest parasite demon aka 10-C. But everyone being High 6-A is very believable from there.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

Can someone please explain to me where the heck Yu Yu Hakusho gets its High 6-A scaling from? It seems to be another problematic circular scaling chain happening here, with Yusuke Urameshi scaling to the power of Yomi, who in turn scales to Yusuke.

Where does this end? And where does it even start? I feel like this is something that should be fixed in the profiles, but first I'd just like my question answered.

Yeah, those reasoning statements for their profiles need to be re-written and better worded. I could take care of it tomorrow.

But to answer where the rating came from in the first place:

There was an accepted feat for Sensui (a Low S-class) in the mid-end 6-A ballpark. From their we up-scaled the Upper S-class beings to High 6-A. The gap between Low and Upper S-class is massive.

As for Yomi's scaling to begin with:
It was stated that he could have destroyed Yusuke, Kurama, and the other Upper S-class soldiers that Kurama had gathered for Yomi. But in doing so, he would have expended half or so of his total energy, which would have left him vulnerable to an approaching Mukuro and Hiei.

It comes from a statement that Sensui said he cannot unleash 50% of his power without causing the entire human world to collapse. It was FateAlbane that did the translations; he was collapsing the cave which is Magnitude 6 at minimum, and it's unknown how much power he was using at the time; but a lot less than 1% most likely. However, 50% of his power was considered enough to basically wipe out all life on the planet just by stressing the planet. It's over a Petaton, but 100% would make it over 2 Petatons. And characters like Hokushin were stated to be more than twice as strong as Sensui, with plenty of characters being multitudes stronger than that.

However, according to what KLOL told me on another thread, he said Magnitude 7 from a distance might actually be more reasonable to cause "And entire human world collapsation". Which would make the initial feat High 6-A outright. And yeah, while the giant ass gap stuff could lead to a a lot of stacking. It stated that gap between Sensui's power and Raizen, is even greater than the gap between Sensui's power and the strength of the tiniest parasite demon aka 10-C. But everyone being High 6-A is very believable from there.

^ Yeah. This.

Yusuke even goaded Sensui about using his entire S-class power. Sensui replied that doing so would wreck the Earth; and he wouldn't do so because he hates only humans while loving the rest of Earth's natural wonder and creatures.

 

[ATARi.HMB]

Sensui replied that doing so would wreck the Earth; and he wouldn't do so because he hates only humans while loving the rest of Earth's natural wonder and creatures.

Indeed, this is true. We also have the term of Genkai saying that Yusuke could destroy the world if he hated it all and was sick of it.
仮にお前がこの世の全て嫌になってぶっ壊そうと思ってもはをあたしに止める力はないしな

"Even if you disliked/hated everything in this world and wanted to destroy it, I no longer have the power to stop you."

I suppose to sheer magnitude of Yomi's power difference also makes me wonder why he did not hit 5-C at least. I mean Yusuke was stated to be 500,000 Youki; along with his Mazoku form being an order of magnitude greater, including the anime version of Sacred Energy. Meh, but that's unrelated. Good points

 

[Soldier_Blue]

This thread reminds me:
I have issues with the 6-A ratings for Upper A-class Kuwabara, Kurama, and Hiei. The reasoning is that they managed to fight against defensive armour Sensui. The problem with this is that: Well, they were getting the shit kicked out of them easily. They absolutely shouldn't scale to 6-A.

Seeing as how:
1. The Spirit World Special Forces consider Upper A-class beings to be a country busting threat, but still consider such beings threats that they themselves can handle quickly.
2. The monsters and gods of various myths are stated by Sensui to be Upper A-class (this would include King Enma).
3. King Enma caused the Great Kanto Earthquake.

I suppose a case could be made for downgrading the Upper A-class characters from 6-A to just "Likely 6-B".

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, there are general problems with downscaling; back then, it was because they didn't instantly die from touching Sensui's Sacred energy, and they were able to tank hits from Sensui's casual attacks. Which even his Tier 6 feat is extremely casual. Great Kanto Earthquake is a 7-B feat iirc. But the country busting statements for A Class demons seem reasonable to scale the Upper A class heroes from.

 

[ATARi.HMB]

This thread reminds me:
I have issues with the 6-A ratings for Upper A-class Kuwabara, Kurama, and Hiei. The reasoning is that they managed to fight against defensive armour Sensui. The problem with this is that: Well, they were getting the shit kicked out of them easily. They absolutely shouldn't scale to 6-A.

Seeing as how:
1. The Spirit World Special Forces consider Upper A-class beings to be a country busting threat, but still consider such beings threats that they themselves can handle quickly.
2. The monsters and gods of various myths are stated by Sensui to be Upper A-class (this would include King Enma).
3. King Enma caused the Great Kanto Earthquake.

I suppose a case could be made for downgrading the Upper A-class characters from 6-A to just "Likely 6-B".

If we high ball the original text implies A-class are threat to more than 1 national unit, so it may be multi-country for higher end interpretation (makes sense as A-class are threat to human world...)
As for Sensui he kinda just sand bag I guess...
Later on at full power; Sensui vs Yusuke is state by Koenma (in the Japanese original that is); to be instantly wiped out upon contact with their demonic aura... so
If sensui was even remotely serious, I bet just like 80% Toguro did; he'd just flex his aura and disintegrate them, but he did purposely hold back. ...least that's my guess.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

Yeah, there are general problems with downscaling; back then, it was because they didn't instantly die from touching Sensui's Sacred energy, and they were able to tank hits from Sensui's casual attacks. Which even his Tier 6 feat is extremely casual. Great Kanto Earthquake is a 7-B feat iirc. But the country busting statements for A Class demons seem reasonable to scale the Upper A class heroes from.

Spirit/Demon/Sacred energy aura can kill seemingly when exerted at full power (or close to it). As @ATARi.HMB stated, Koenma even says that Sensui could have killed Team Urameshi just by flexing his Sacred energy at full (or close to full) power. This is why I have doubts about scaling Team Urameshi (Upper A-class keys only) to 6-A.

Great Kanto Quake was natural, and would be in the High 6-C to 6-B ballpark, correct? King Enma is also stated to be responsible for some of the most severe natural disasters in human history. And those were just him throwing hissy fits.

If we high ball the original text implies A-class are threat to more than 1 national unit, so it may be multi-country for higher end interpretation (makes sense as A-class are threat to human world...)
As for Sensui he kinda just sand bag I guess...
Later on at full power; Sensui vs Yusuke is state by Koenma (in the Japanese original that is); to be instantly wiped out upon contact with their demonic aura... so
If sensui was even remotely serious, I bet just like 80% Toguro did; he'd just flex his aura and disintegrate them, but he did purposely hold back. ...least that's my guess.

As Yusuke was reviving, it was announced to Spirit World Special Forces that "destruction of a country is imminent" (at least in the viz translation; don't know what the original Japanese says). The Spirit World Special Forces believe themselves to be capable of handling any Demon World threat, including seemingly the strongest A-class beings (which would also put them on Upper A-class). But they don't know about the S-class beings' true power and shit themselves just on sensing the power of a relatively weak Low S-class; and Kurama later on states that S-class applies to any demon/threat that Spirit World's people can't handle. All of this points to Upper A-class being at least country level threats.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree they shouldn't be downscaled, and DT says we typically avoid using Total Seismic Energy unless explicitly stated characters manipulated the entire Tectonic plates to cause the Earthquake. But there are plenty of events on Earth to scale King Enma and then Team Urameshi from.

 

[ATARi.HMB]

Spirit/Demon/Sacred energy aura can kill seemingly when exerted at full power (or close to it). As @ATARi.HMB stated, Koenma even says that Sensui could have killed Team Urameshi just by flexing his Sacred energy at full (or close to full) power. This is why I have doubts about scaling Team Urameshi (Upper A-class keys only) to 6-A.

Great Kanto Quake was natural, and would be in the High 6-C to 6-B ballpark, correct? King Enma is also stated to be responsible for some of the most severe natural disasters in human history. And those were just him throwing hissy fits.


As Yusuke was reviving, it was announced to Spirit World Special Forces that "destruction of a country is imminent" (at least in the viz translation; don't know what the original Japanese says). The Spirit World Special Forces believe themselves to be capable of handling any Demon World threat, including seemingly the strongest A-class beings (which would also put them on Upper A-class). But they don't know about the S-class beings' true power and shit themselves just on sensing the power of a relatively weak Low S-class; and Kurama later on states that S-class applies to any demon/threat that Spirit World's people can't handle. All of this points to Upper A-class being at least country level threats.

This is amazing points! And I say Kudos; however, I'd like to believe Hiei and Kurama were at least in the upper mid portion of A-class; as it seems an A-class in general is a country/multi-country level threat per SDF's alert notification.
I use to think the SDF came due to the spike of demon energy from Hiei and Kurama; but now thinking about it they did attack Yusuke at first and Hiei + Kurama were long gone. Moreover, Shunjun 1 shot a early A-class Kurama lore wise, and confirmed by Togashi.
I think they'd still be country tier, but I can see why you don't think they should be that high either. Sensui CLEARLY held back. Though I personally have them higher just because the anime scales completely differently, I agree that manga placement wise country at best is good.

 

[Nierre]

There was an accepted feat for Sensui (a Low S-class) in the mid-end 6-A ballpark. From their we up-scaled the Upper S-class beings to High 6-A. The gap between Low and Upper S-class is massive.

Could we put this on the Yu Yu Hakusho page? maybe for notes or something, because it's super confusing not knowing where multi continental yyh is coming from. If not on the yyh page itself, then maybe put it for each Multi-Continental character in the verse, so that it can be easy to access? Because I've been searching for months trying to find justification on Multi-Continental yyh, and was going to make a discussion post about it until I saw this.

As for Yomi's scaling to begin with:
It was stated that he could have destroyed Yusuke, Kurama, and the other Upper S-class soldiers that Kurama had gathered for Yomi. But in doing so, he would have expended half or so of his total energy, which would have left him vulnerable to an approaching Mukuro and Hiei.

Could we also add this to Yomi's profile (and anyone who may scale to him), as well as scans for this statement?

 

[ATARi.HMB]

Oh, I just realized. It was stated that Hiei and Kurama were A-class and got even stronger when Yusuke showed up.
If I recall Hiei stacking on the Entatsu Dragon within his body is a major increase of power. We also know heavy emotions can amp individuals up by many-fold using Yusuke as an example, or Hiei vs Seiryu. This might be why they placed Kurama Yoko and Hiei at max power around those tiers.
Especially since a base form Kurama defeated a Mid-B Class Elder Toguro who was confirmed stronger than Kurasu and Bui.

I had forgotten to mention these variables. Carry on

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

A Class demons including Kuwabara, Kurama, and Hiei at the time should be on par with King Enma yes.

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

I suppose to sheer magnitude of Yomi's power difference also makes me wonder why he did not hit 5-C at least. I mean Yusuke was stated to be 500,000 Youki; along with his Mazoku form being an order of magnitude greater, including the anime version of Sacred Energy. Meh, but that's unrelated. Good points

I've also wondered this. Granted, I've only watched the anime, and I heard the scaling in the manga isn't as large, but the manga still has Genkai stating that S-class demons can wipe out the surface just by entering out world, right?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The Anime version had a statement about a single blast from his Spirit Gun could blow up the planet, but not in the Manga. But Genkai does state that a single low level S Class could obliterate entire countries just by simple punching; and Sensui has his own Earth shaking feat that could wipe out all life on the planet just my stressing the surface.

 

[Starter_Pack]

So...have there been any conclusions from this? What's gonna be updated and changed here, if anything?

 

[ATARi.HMB]

I've also wondered this. Granted, I've only watched the anime, and I heard the scaling in the manga isn't as large, but the manga still has Genkai stating that S-class demons can wipe out the surface just by entering out world, right?

Sorry for the late reply. The original statement in the anime and manga are congruently.

仮にお前がこの世の全て嫌になってぶっ壊そうと思ってもはをあたしに止める力はないしな

"Even if you disliked/hated everything in this world and wanted to blow it all away/ destroy it, I no longer have the power to stop you."
You could argue this, given the magnitude that even approaching an S-class demon at full power would evaporate you alone. Let alone taking a Rei-gan or Attack which is easily many-fold above a normal punch. [scans are below]

Moreover, Hiei's absorbed Dragon is stated to be:
"It's a nutrient that explosively enhances its master's demon power." The term "爆発的に" is explosively, tremendously (術師の妖力を爆発的に高める栄養剤なのよ)
Raw scan [here].
It's implied to be greater than his Jaganshi form; which was confirmed many-fold per the YYH databook of 2004-2005 ; usually a bare minimum of 5x; since Several is 4, few is 3, a couple is 2.

Though the anime claims it doubled his power [here]~
The anime also confirms A-classes are multi-country tier; rather than singular. [here]
So if you want to argue the Attack Potency output for this claim, multiplied by the numeric values of Hiei's Jaganshi form which is less than his absorbed Dragon variant, you can.

Regardless, all things considered I'd say Continental + is very appropriate for the utmost power output of an A-class demon.

Manga here:

Anime here:

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I do not think it has been updated yet, but as brought up by others, Sensui's feat may be High 6-A outright given KLOL mentioning Magnitude 7 from a distance sounds more appropriate for statements like the one he made. But Blue makes a good point that the A classes shouldn't be downscaled from Sensui and instead finding their own feats and/or scaled from King Enma's feats.

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

Sorry for the late reply. The original statement in the anime and manga are congruently.

That wasn't the scene I was talking about, but it doesn't matter. Went back and rewatched the scene and it turns out I remembered it wrong; in fact it was Koenma, not Genkai, that was talking.

 

[Nierre]

Bump

 

[Starter_Pack]

Right. Let me ask again. Are there any conclusions that have been reached here, or are there things left to discuss?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think a Content Revision should be made later, but it appears some general upgrades for the S Class heroes might be in order; since Magnitude 7 from a distance might be more accurate the Magnitude 6 for Sensui's feat. And then a downgrade for the A Class Team Urameshi; since Sensui was merely toying with Kuwabara, Hiei, and Kurama and could have finished them all off with a simple muscle flexing. I recall Blue mentioned multiple feats King Enma had that the A Class cast should scale from, but at least we know they're overwhelmingly stronger than Dark Tournament saga Yusuke and Younger Toguro.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

YYH needs to have their pages organized in general. I looked for Yusuke's large town rating for a long ass time to finally realize it comes from karasu's https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:The_Calaca/Karasu_does_something_Redux feat that I found by accident and is on no one's profile but his and Kurama'a

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

So there's gonna be a CRT made in the future to revise the A class and S class?