• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

What is Happening?

15,612
5,368
I’m absolutely certain I’m not the only one who doesn’t noticed this, but there is certainly a noticeable shift within the wiki.

People are leaving in droves, at least one person a week from what I’ve seen. Mods, members, no real discrimination in who. Either from lack of interest for various reasons, wiki standards, or overall just moving on from the wiki as a whole. If not, all of them. I’ve noticed this a lot, and none of them seem to break this trend.

Lots of prominent names here, or at least ones I can recall from memory. Yvel, M3X, Weeb, Dargoo, Apex, and the list goes on. I haven’t been on this wiki for much longer than 2 years, at most. But it is enough for a newbie to observe the tide in this community, and most people seem increasingly more displeased here.

Debating is something I take more seriously than I would try and deny—I’m a very argumentative person, and an expressive one. Why I say this is because I believe there’s a lot of things killing people’s overall interest in debating, en masse. I think these should seriously be addressed, because while the gap can likely always be filled with new members, that doesn’t necessarily fix the problems at hand. I would be lying to myself I said I didn’t admittedly make friends on this site, starting with being a rookie who upgraded Pit to 4-A, to an avid Tensura supporter, and now a mainline supporter of Persona / SMT, it’s certainly being an experience.

These are merely my 5 AM thoughts, so feel free to leave yours below. Try to be respectful.
 
Last edited:
Some don't like how things are being run here, others aren't as interested in debating anymore or just frankly have more important things going on in their lives.

It is true though, quite a few people are quitting recently and it's not a good sign, I personally don't see myself sticking around for much longer either, mostly for the same reasons a couple others have left.
 
Yeah, with the amount of people leaving recently, ya know something ain't right. It's likely gotta do with (From what I can tell):

  • Displeased with how the wiki functions (It's rules and regulations)
  • The staff and how it treats the wiki and it's members
  • Loss of interest or passion in the wiki
  • The state of the world and their personal life.
  • The very nature of VS debating and debating in general, and the toxicity it brings
 
Last edited:
Some don't like how things are being run here, others aren't as interested in debating anymore or just frankly have more important things going on in their lives.

It is true though, quite a few people are quitting recently and it's not a good sign, I personally don't see myself sticking around for much longer either, mostly for the same reasons a couple others have left.
I’m of this road too, because there are only really 2 verses I still stick here for. SMT (Persona), and Tensura. Afterwards, I really do not have much to stay here for.
 
I remember seeing a post here recently, but there was someone that brought up an interesting point of that the tiering system is really flawed, and that trying to fit so many different verses under one tiering system was a bad idea, due to immensely different cosmologies and that this causes several verses to never be able to get a truly accurate rating for them. I don't agree with everything that was stated in the post, but it was an interesting point they brought up.
 
I’m pretty much borderline close on the edge to not be here anymore either. The only things I’m here for is a single verse I like (What a Beautiful/Steampunk Series) and doing some rough TL’s here and there for the site seeing as no one is doing them. Were those two gone, I’d have left right now or a while ago.

That said, I have been noticing this too as well and it is in a way sad that people are leaving. But at the same time I cannot fault them for doing so either. As Emirp pointed, it’s at least one of those several reasons that have people leaving, mod or normal.
 
I personally think that the limitation in this wiki related to how our system, rules and even "culture" of VsDebating is very problematic and if someone has very different opinions from what is stated in the great rules, it's easy to someone to feel somehow oppressed by the system and this sensation might be enough to make someone quit this place.

And we could still consider the pressure of doing revisions, the toxicity among the members, the very hard work that is to work with certain franchises and so on. Isn't really something very easy to do, and although the very rules that governs this place are something that I consider that is a cause for all of this, the reaction of the users to it already turned into a whole new problem.

In such situation, I think it's easy to understand why so many people are deciding to quit the place, even if it's simply to move for another forum with rules that work better for said person.
 
I personally think that the limitation in this wiki related to how our system, rules and even "culture" of VsDebating is very problematic and if someone has very different opinions from what is stated in the great rules, it's easy to someone to feel somehow oppressed by the system and this sensation might be enough to make someone quit this place.

And we could still consider the pressure of doing revisions, the toxicity among the members, the very hard work that is to work with certain franchises and so on. Isn't really something very easy to do, and although the very rules that governs this place are something that I consider that is a cause for all of this, the reaction of the users to it already turned into a whole new problem.

In such situation, I think it's easy to understand why so many people are deciding to quit the place, even if it's simply to move for another forum with rules that work better for said person.
I definitely agree. While I didn’t like the way he went about it, Kukui expressed his vivid displeasure with the double standards of some verses needing Japanese scans to prove their point despite being decades old, and other verses getting off scot free.

I’m still of the belief that all users are not made equal, and moderators generally seem to have more weight in their opinion, even if there are disagreements, and their sense of judgment is automatically accepted before any other rebuttals. That, in particular, is what made Yvel leave.
 
That by itself is part of some of the problems that I have with the rules, along with how we deal with the very meaning of canon itself. I think that as some of these questions started with a very closed-mind approach even outside of VsDebating (Such as some works with a more defined canon as Star Wars) some people simply started to think that such approaches are the standard, or even, the only true way of analyzing a work of fiction. While in reality, fiction is much more open-minded and with various different approaches to how it could be analyzed. The reason for why there are different literary schools of though is exactly an example of that. Everything could be analyzed in multiple ways, and even if we decided that this Wiki should simply be one "literary school", it definitely shouldn't be taken as an "absolute example" or "what should be seen as a standard". And the same should go to any VsDebating forum, wiki or private group, everything is open to interpretation.

And of course, since we have such culture, it's just natural that some members (Be it staff members or not) are normally considered first before new members simply due to being an already established person. Not a thing only here, but in social medias as a whole. It's no surprised that in already well established Digimon forums, I'm the outsider that says things without any sense and should be considered a "crazy person that hurts what has been already accepted for years". Sadly I think that the problem is something from the "human heart" and society as a whole, and the way that some places are managed only makes such toxicity to develop and start to be accepted as normal, or even, as the only right thing to do.
 
While in reality, fiction is much more open-minded and with various different approaches to how it could be analyzed. The reason for why there are different literary schools of though is exactly an example of that. Everything could be analyzed in multiple ways, and even if we decided that this Wiki should simply be one "literary school", it definitely shouldn't be taken as an "absolute example" or "what should be seen as a standard".
This is partially why I’ve stopped using the word “wank”. Since there are so many users, with so many individual perceptions, with their own individual logical conclusions, it’s obvious this wiki will never reach true, objective, 100% reality on the stats of these characters. Forgive me for getting a little philosophical, but it’s just my stance on it. Now, obviously this doesn’t refer to someone thinking a verse with only mountain busters has a multiversal feat, then that’s simply just not factual, or “incorrect”.

However, imagine going under a CRT and you have their tier set in stone. At least, you believe you do. Then you go through the same game again, and you’ll find stuff that was simply right in front of your face, but never acknowledged or just completely ignored, and shaped your own conclusions and interpretations. What you believed was “objective”, was now wrong. That’s simply how I believe this wiki is, and the same for downgrades.
 
That is also, just another theme that I'm also against. Just like Canon, I'm also very against the definition of outlier that we use, that also works against multiple points of view and interpretation, as in my opinion, is jut another case of really not understanding the more open meaning of a word and its consequences.

Different opinions, ways of thinking, etc. A lot of this sadly is simply ignored and although I would be fine with just being said "we don't follow such rules" (As I can understand a certain place deciding to follow a certain school of thought instead of another one), the way that it's handled isn't exactly how I would like it to be handled. At least no one is really obligated to be here, as such if someone simply doesn't like the system, it can goes to another place or simply give up on VsDebating as a whole, that is exactly what you are mentioning in the thread.

I personally would really like a more open place that allows more of different tiers, while still having a well define, but still diverse, tiering system. Although I don't think that such place exists already, I do think that at least people are still free to try to find, or even create, such place.
 
Isn’t that sorta CSAP?
I think that was the wiki that had a few interpretations per profile, I think it already exists.
 
Really, while i won't deny the possibility of people leaving due to the overall wiki atmosphere (Because that certaintly has happend) i think it just coincides with the overal age demographic of this wiki. Many people, who have joined around the same time are probably around the same age/age range. many young people who joined as teenages might be in highschool now, many highschoolers might be in college now, many college students might be job hunting now. VSB is nothing more than a hobby, a distraction from real life, and people at that point in their life shoudn't distract themselve that easily.

2020 is another major reason. Many people who might have spended their time here as a short daily hobby here were forced to spend their time at home, meaning they probably spend a bigger portion of their time on the wiki. You will only understand the problems you have with something if you spend time on it. What might have annoyed a little bit because it happend once in a while might become a fullblown issue because you're exposed longer to it. And this applied to nearly every member here, people you might consider good and people you might consider bad. You can guess how easily smaller problems can cascade into massive issues throughout the year. It propells burnout, distaste or just a general epiphany of time being wasted.

It just happend to allign that way. I can't blame people, normal users and mods alike, to behave their worst throughout this year at all. And neither can i blame people being annoyed by each other due to bad behavior, which keeps spiraling down and down. Ant might keep repeating his catchphrase at this point but he has especially a point in 2020. The only "fix" to the natural flow here is to hope that 2021 brings back normality, so everyone can pent up their stress in their preffered, normal way. And maybe then, when the atmosphere returns to its lighthearted nature back, people might come back again.
 
I also agree with that. It just so many things that happened at the same time that are giving more and more reasons for this to happen. I supposed that one day this would happen, but the surprises at 2020 simply turned everything more serious and fast.
 
Many people, who have joined around the same time are probably around the same age/age range. many young people who joined as teenages might be in highschool now, many highschoolers might be in college now, many college students might be job hunting now. VSB is nothing more than a hobby, a distraction from real life, and people at that point in their life shoudn't distract themselve that easily.
I agree, like I said I’ve only been here for two years, and I’m still a high schooler. Soon to be a graduate, but for now all I have is free time.
 
TBH, if it wasn't for quarantine, I likely wouldn't have joined the wiki, I joined here because of extreme boredom
 
Last edited:
VSB is nothing more than a hobby, a distraction from real life, and people at that point in their life shoudn't distract themselve that easily.

2020 is another major reason.
I agree, this is pretty much it. For me personally, anyways, but I'm sure it's true in general.

Regards to the 2020 thing, I only started interacting in this wiki around the middle late last year, aside from previously just lurking around. Because of the pandemic giving me a bit more time on my hands. While I'm a person that can be very easily distracted, and because of 2020 keeping me mostly indoors, doesn't mean that my obligations in real life would just stop existing. Especially in the following weeks with college.

Regarding the issues of the wiki, I can see that much of it is true. But personally, what made me invest more of my time in this wiki is because I like indexing, which is like the most prominent function this wiki and forum have. Which means that it also has the biggest problems, but I just tend to have less interactions in the forum outside of the verses that I like (mostly Tensura and MHA, and a few others). Versus Debating, I believe is also a cause of much of these problems, but again I care less and less about it and more about indexing so it hasn't affected me much at all. As human beings, our judgment always has bias in it and the environment in our wiki can affect that by a lot, but I can at least proudly say that I have stayed as objective as possible in my rather small contributions.

Lately, a lot of bad things have been happening all around me, and I've been at odds on whether or not to stay at all because of this. Ultimately, since I don't really interact with the majority of the wiki here, only staying on my favorite verses, it has worked for being not much of a source of stress but more as a distraction or hobby that keeps me sane.

Basically, I just stick to the parts of this wiki that is least toxic (I've had my small tiny of toxic encounters, gatekeeping, etc.), and more to the discussions that I actually enjoy, try to be as objective as possible, and sometimes give my input into my thoughts about how to make the wiki better overall. It may give me more longevity in this wiki and just being like this means I won't contribute to the problems this wiki have.
 
Yeah, with the amount of people leaving recently, ya know something ain't right. It's likely gotta do with (From what I can tell):

  • Displeased with how the wiki functions (It's rules and regulations)
  • The staff and how it treats the wiki and it's members
  • Loss of interest or passion in the wiki
  • The state of the world and their personal life.
  • The very nature of VS debating and debating in general, and the toxicity it brings
You almost got it. You missed the fact that some people support only verses that get no attention when it comes to CRT's and matches, so the wiki is pretty much useless for them and then they leave. Even some more known verses are like that. Mainly light novel, HST and ultra hax verses get the spotlight.
 
I've seen some of the members who left claim that they're leaving the wiki because they just don't find powerscaling a fun hobby anymore, which is what lead to me making a joke about battleboards being the opposite of golfing.

You like golfing the older you are, and you like battleboards the younger you are. It's a silly comparison, I know.
 
Personally, with all these departures I've started growing worried of what the future of the wiki will be, in a way or another.
As long as key members stay and users don't have massive exodus, the wiki won't die. But the problems we currently have will still exist, and may or may not get worse especially with an influx of new users that are new to the rules, that entire combo.

I believe there is already a post by a certain mod here that addresses a lot of the problems and it has caused many users to quit as well.

One of the ways to improve the wiki is just to nurture a positive and objective community, and step-by-step improve the rules and standards. Constant adaptation. For the users' part, also a lot of introspection would also help.

Easier said than done though. It all begins with individually being objective and not being a toxic user.
 
The problem I see is that key members are necessary, and a lot of people leaving may cause a decrease of their morale and an increase of the workload.
Some users, staff and non, are simply necessary to keep the whole thing from crumbling.

I also feel a sort of sadness towards unfinished works, revision, verses etc..., like looking at an old and forgotten structure.
 
You almost got it. You missed the fact that some people support only verses that get no attention when it comes to CRT's and matches, so the wiki is pretty much useless for them and then they leave. Even some more known verses are like that. Mainly light novel, HST and ultra hax verses get the spotlight.
Remembered Nurarihyon no Mago and Silverio was exist in this wiki yet they're barely touched

Ah fudge
 
You almost got it. You missed the fact that some people support only verses that get no attention when it comes to CRT's and matches, so the wiki is pretty much useless for them and then they leave. Even some more known verses are like that. Mainly light novel, HST and ultra hax verses get the spotlight.
Me looking at my obscure VN and LN verses.

I understand that sentiment, after i create a new verse, i generally don't feel like doing CRTS, especially since it's hard to get calcs done, and even if i somehow figure out how to make the calc myself, i have to hunt down the calc members.
 
It also doesn't help that there was a 'migration' that went for over 6 months which kinda didn't help with the lost activity on wiki then having the forum and the profiles on 2 separate platforms is another point that make harder for users to come and go, which mean less activity.
 
It also doesn't help that there was a 'migration' that went for over 6 months which kinda didn't help with the lost activity on wiki then having the forum and the profiles on 2 separate platforms is another point that make harder for users to come and go, which mean less activity.

I can see this being as another factor for leaving as well. I literally had my activity cut quite a bit and by that time I really didn't have much else to do around VSB. Even now it's the same, and I find it a miracle I'm even around for something I like here to keep me around...
 
Yeah, I guess the forum move probably wasn't the best time to join the wiki, with the lack of things such as big CRTs
 
Something that frustrates me on the wiki is the how some abilities are so confusing like Type 2 Conceptual manipulation and transduality. ticks me off, and i try to understand them. And when i finally think i do. A verse comes along and contradicts what i thought was acceptable with it. Won't name any verses here.

Anyways, i don't plan on leaving any time soon, but due to economic times working 6 days a week 12 hour shifts to get buy at a hard labor hands on factory... really takes a lot out of you.. and demotivates you from doing anything..
 
Agreed I got my account approved 2 days ago and 2 staff members left within that time, it's pretty upsetting.

I first started noticing people leaving in November - December.
 
Back
Top