Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney Downgrade

[Psychomaster35]

Maybe, recreate the anime profile? The anime has way more abilities, plus a concrete 9-B and a concrete super sonic feat.

But wasnt that 9-B feat a visual effect? The stand was perfectly fine after Phoenix seemingly “destroyed” it while cross-examining “Iris”, showing its just his perspective of how he saw it.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

But wasnt that 9-B feat a visual effect? The stand was perfectly fine after Phoenix seemingly “destroyed” it while cross-examining “Iris”, showing its just his perspective of how he saw it.

Was it?

 

[Psychomaster35]

Was it?

Yes

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Hmph, you're right

 

[Antvasima]

The first post seems to make sense to me.

What are the conclusions so far here?

 

[Armorchompy]

Mostly agreement. Wright's dura will likely be 9-C/9-B though

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. This is probably fine to apply then, unless staff members disagree.

 

[Armorchompy]

Haven't seen any of them disagree. By the way, people also brought up the speed calc he scales to is likely wrong, nevermind that he probably shouldn't scale to it. Wright's profile is going to be a 10-A with 9-B dura, though it should be kept as he falls under the kind that's interesting to use in mind-game matches, similar to other characters such as those from Death Note. (He also has some fairly interesting abilities)

 

[Antvasima]

Okay then. That should be fine to apply.

 

[Armorchompy]

Bump. I don't want this to be forgotten.

 

[Antvasima]

As I mentioned above, feel free to apply what has been accepted by the consensus here.

 

[Armorchompy]

I'm afraid I might not be knowledgeable enough on the series, but I will if necessary.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks.

Which of the members that replied above do you think that I should send notifications to for help?

 

[Armorchompy]

Well, the OP, probably.

 

[Antvasima]

@Ugarik

Would you be willing to apply the accepted revisions please?

 

[Ugarik]

Have the reached the conclusion yet? I would like to know what they are

 

[Antvasima]

I do not remember. My apologies.

Is somebody else willing to provide a summary of the conclusions so far please?

 

[Armorchompy]

Alright, I'll try.

Wright's AP should be downgraded to 10-A (for busting down a reinforced door in case 2-2, calc link is in the OP)

LS should be Average Human, I believe.

Durability might stay 9-B as the calculation for him getting ran over by a car is legit (though considering that's his only real dura feat, I'd argue it's an outlier)

Speed should be downgraded to Average Human, as Ryu found a problem with the calc he scales to, and it was also brought up there isn't any actual scaling from the guy who did it to Wright. An alternate thing to calculate was brought up, though.

This not only applies to Wright but the great majority of the characters in the 'verse.

 

[Armorchompy]

None of these were opposed if I remember correctly, though perhaps the speed wasn't argued enough to consider it "concluded"

 

[Lord_JJJ]

I agree with everything but why would Wright become a stone wall? and how other characters would scale to him?

 

[Armorchompy]

He'd become a stone wall because he has durability feats, but no actual scaling from those feats to his AP. There's a couple people who do hurt him but it's not like he gets in fistfights with them.

 

[Armorchompy]

From looking at profiles:

Mia Fey "accidentally hurt phoenix wright" which doesn't link to anything, but feels like a gag feat that gave Wright no lasting damage (her speed scaling also makes no sense)

Edgeworth has "Considered stronger than Phoenix Wright" with no actual justification

Franziska knocked out Wright, which might be fairly legit though it might've also been more through the pain of repeated whippings than actual damage, and since inflicting pain but not damage to far stronger beings is the exact purpose of whips I'd argue that doesn't scale

Simon Blackquill has his own feat (and should be) which isn't calced but seems 9-B or at a superhuman level of 9-C (breaking his handcuffs)

Manfred von Karma's justification is "Should be comparable to Phoenix Wright" once again with no justification, this is despite the fact that he's an old man

Nahyuta's justification is that his necklace can harm Wright, and he can shatter that necklace. Once again, that necklace caused pain, but seemingly little physical harm to Wright.

The Judge is 10-B, 9-C with his gavel, which I find questionable in itself as gavels aren't meant to be used as weaponry, but this isn't related.

Maya Fey "(Has injured Phoenix Wright before, forced Manfred back with a gust of wind)" Forcing someone back with a gust of wind is LS, not AP, and the other one is super-vague.

Pearl Fey (a literal 8 years old child) also has nothing more than "Capable of damaging Phoenix Wright"

Dick Gumshoe is "Superior to Jean Armstrong, who knocked out Phoenix Wright" which sounds fair enough, If that is indeed what happened.

And finally, Shelly De Killer "Casually overpowered Maya, Fought and tied with Dogen, a professional assassin, with only one arm, should be much stronger then Phoenix Wright"

Basically all of these people except potentially Nahyuta, Franziska, Shelly, Simon and Gumshoe shouldn't have their current AP ratings, and if 9-B durability is downgraded only Simon should keep it

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks. So is somebody willing to apply this?

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

I honestly think the verse should be just removed. It's a non combat verse with non combat abilities.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

From looking at profiles:

Mia Fey "accidentally hurt phoenix wright" which doesn't link to anything, but feels like a gag feat that gave Wright no lasting damage (her speed scaling also makes no sense)

Edgeworth has "Considered stronger than Phoenix Wright" with no actual justification

Franziska knocked out Wright, which might be fairly legit though it might've also been more through the pain of repeated whippings than actual damage, and since inflicting pain but not damage to far stronger beings is the exact purpose of whips I'd argue that doesn't scale

Simon Blackquill has his own feat (and should be) which isn't calced but seems 9-B or at a superhuman level of 9-C (breaking his handcuffs)

Manfred von Karma's justification is "Should be comparable to Phoenix Wright" once again with no justification, this is despite the fact that he's an old man

Nahyuta's justification is that his necklace can harm Wright, and he can shatter that necklace. Once again, that necklace caused pain, but seemingly little physical harm to Wright.

The Judge is 10-B, 9-C with his gavel, which I find questionable in itself as gavels aren't meant to be used as weaponry, but this isn't related.

Maya Fey "(Has injured Phoenix Wright before, forced Manfred back with a gust of wind)" Forcing someone back with a gust of wind is LS, not AP, and the other one is super-vague.

Pearl Fey (a literal 8 years old child) also has nothing more than "Capable of damaging Phoenix Wright"

Dick Gumshoe is "Superior to Jean Armstrong, who knocked out Phoenix Wright" which sounds fair enough, If that is indeed what happened.

And finally, Shelly De Killer "Casually overpowered Maya, Fought and tied with Dogen, a professional assassin, with only one arm, should be much stronger then Phoenix Wright"

Basically all of these people except potentially Nahyuta, Franziska, Shelly, Simon and Gumshoe shouldn't have their current AP ratings, and if 9-B durability is downgraded only Simon should keep it

The only time I remember Mia "injuring" Wright is her stepping on his foot in the anime, which probably shouldn't count.

 

[Armorchompy]

The only time I remember Mia "injuring" Wright is her stepping on his foot in the anime, which probably shouldn't count.

I agree

I honestly think the verse should be just removed. It's a non combat verse with non combat abilities.

We have several characters who "fight" only with their intellect (some of them have guns or minor fighting skills but that's not the point of their character)

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

I agree


We have several characters who "fight" only with their intellect (some of them have guns or minor fighting skills but that's not the point of their character)

I mean, how are they fighting with intellect here?

 

[Armorchompy]

Depends on the match. I recall a match where Hannibal Lecter hunting down Light Yagami being very fun to debate, you can have Sherlock Holmes and Poirot race to find the culprit of a specific fictional murder, have a character play a game of Poker with D'Arby, all of this is perfectly allowed.

 

[Lord_JJJ]

From looking at profiles:

Mia Fey "accidentally hurt phoenix wright" which doesn't link to anything, but feels like a gag feat that gave Wright no lasting damage (her speed scaling also makes no sense)

Edgeworth has "Considered stronger than Phoenix Wright" with no actual justification

Franziska knocked out Wright, which might be fairly legit though it might've also been more through the pain of repeated whippings than actual damage, and since inflicting pain but not damage to far stronger beings is the exact purpose of whips I'd argue that doesn't scale

Simon Blackquill has his own feat (and should be) which isn't calced but seems 9-B or at a superhuman level of 9-C (breaking his handcuffs)

Manfred von Karma's justification is "Should be comparable to Phoenix Wright" once again with no justification, this is despite the fact that he's an old man

Nahyuta's justification is that his necklace can harm Wright, and he can shatter that necklace. Once again, that necklace caused pain, but seemingly little physical harm to Wright.

The Judge is 10-B, 9-C with his gavel, which I find questionable in itself as gavels aren't meant to be used as weaponry, but this isn't related.

Maya Fey "(Has injured Phoenix Wright before, forced Manfred back with a gust of wind)" Forcing someone back with a gust of wind is LS, not AP, and the other one is super-vague.

Pearl Fey (a literal 8 years old child) also has nothing more than "Capable of damaging Phoenix Wright"

Dick Gumshoe is "Superior to Jean Armstrong, who knocked out Phoenix Wright" which sounds fair enough, If that is indeed what happened.

And finally, Shelly De Killer "Casually overpowered Maya, Fought and tied with Dogen, a professional assassin, with only one arm, should be much stronger then Phoenix Wright"

Basically all of these people except potentially Nahyuta, Franziska, Shelly, Simon and Gumshoe shouldn't have their current AP ratings, and if 9-B durability is downgraded only Simon should keep it

Wait Shelly De Killer have a profile? That the fisrt time I know about that.

Anyway I feel that you right about most of those characters. But there is a saimilir case with a Dangonranba CRT which Makoto survive a 9B feat and it will be scale to his AP due to it make no sense for a mystery series character be a stone wall. So I feel that Phoenix should also scale to his durability

For Maya, she damage Wright with a broom in the fisrt game third case which is obviously just a gag, Wright is obvoisly stronger then Maya

For Mia, I do not recall her damaging Wright at all, but she have that weird feat of making that Prosecutor with glasses that I forget his name lose all his hair with... air manipulation? I guess? I do not see her have any other fear

I guess Edworth, Maya and the Judge may get 9B dura via tanking hits from Franziska whip

For Manfred, I guess he do not have anything make her scale

Now for Pearl, I really think weirdly that Pearl should be scale for 9B, and I have a reason for this. First, Pearl has shown several times that it is capable of harming Wright, and if I remember it correctly, she even once make him fell unconscious, Wright also mentioned that she is too strong for her age so I don't see the fact her be 8 years old as a enough conter argument, especially since we have in this verse a little monkey that is able to do a feat in lifting strength most of human are unable to do. Finally, she does not have any anti-feats other than being a child, which, as I said earlier, is not enough conter argument to this.

I do not know about the other characters since I only play the original trilogy

 

[Armorchompy]

Anyway I feel that you right about most of those characters. But there is a saimilir case with a Dangonranba CRT which Makoto survive a 9B feat and it will be scale to his AP due to it make no sense for a mystery series character be a stone wall. So I feel that Phoenix should also scale to his durability

The AP is scaling to him because more characters on his level are able to harm him, and there are more 9-B/9-C feats. Personally, I still don't agree with that.

I guess Edworth, Maya and the Judge may get 9B dura via tanking hits from Franziska whip

I've explained why I don't think the whip would necessarily be 9-B, that being that IRL whips were often used on large, 9-B animals such as horses and cows to inflict them pain without serious damage, which I believe is the case here too.

Now for Pearl, I really think weirdly that Pearl should be scale for 9B, and I have a reason for this. First, Pearl has shown several times that it is capable of harming Wright, and if I remember it correctly, she even once make him fell unconscious, Wright also mentioned that she is too strong for her age so I don't see the fact her be 8 years old as a enough conter argument, especially since we have in this verse a little monkey that is able to do a feat in lifting strength most of human are unable to do. Finally, she does not have any anti-feats other than being a child, which, as I said earlier, is not enough conter argument to this.

I suppose that makes sense.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

The AP is scaling to him because more characters on his level are able to harm him, and there are more 9-B/9-C feats. Personally, I still don't agree with that.

I've explained why I don't think the whip would necessarily be 9-B, that being that IRL whips were often used on large, 9-B animals such as horses and cows to inflict them pain without serious damage, which I believe is the case here too.

I suppose that makes sense.

Well, Phoenix was out cold by Francisca. I doubt you can knock animals out with whip

 

[Armorchompy]

I think it was more that he was overwhelmed by the pain than knocked out through sheer AP. It's more consistent with Franz' use of her whip, and the IRL usage of whips.

 

[Antvasima]

So is somebody willing to apply this?

 

[Armorchompy]

We're still discussing the scaling it seems

 

[Lord_JJJ]

The AP is scaling to him because more characters on his level are able to harm him, and there are more 9-B/9-C feats. Personally, I still don't agree with that.

Like he? the only that I can remember harm Makoto was Mondo. There is more tier 9 feats in Ace Attorney. Pheonix already have two (survive the car and surviving the fall from the burning bridge). there also the feat you mention from Simon, Dahila had also survive that same fall that Pheonix survive, Kity Bride also mention her surviving some superhuman stuff like falling from 5 storey bulding and tanking all types of vehicles and there is the feat of Mia making that person that I still have hard time remembring his name lose all his hair w s1hich may or may not give superhuman results. There is also that radio used by De Killer, Pheonix can make it explode by just yelling? (That may sound weird but in the same case Pheonix can do the same to shatter Adrian Andrews glasses. And for how the radio come back after explode, I will say that it come back via toon force since that radio had done many "cantoony" weird stuff like moving in his own, shown emotions and sweating, so coming back after get explode somehow isn't that weird, Anyway I can see why that feat may not seen as valid feat)

Ace Attorney have more tier 9 feats than Dangonranba and there is more characters can damage Wright. I personally really feel that someone like pheonix be a stone wall is kinda weird

I think it was more that he was overwhelmed by the pain than knocked out through sheer AP. It's more consistent with Franz' use of her whip, and the IRL usage of whips.

Is it possible to make a animal lose consciousness by attacking him with a whip 11 to 16 time IRL?

 

[Armorchompy]

Like he? the only that I can remember harm Makoto was Mondo. There is more tier 9 feats in Ace Attorney. Pheonix already have two (survive the car and surviving the fall from the burning bridge). there also the feat you mention from Simon, Dahila had also survive that same fall that Pheonix survive, Kity Bride also mention her surviving some superhuman stuff like falling from 5 storey bulding and tanking all types of vehicles and there is the feat of Mia making that person that I still have hard time remembring his name lose all his hair w s1hich may or may not give superhuman results. There is also that radio used by De Killer, Pheonix can make it explode by just yelling? (That may sound weird but in the same case Pheonix can do the same to shatter Adrian Andrews glasses. And for how the radio come back after explode, I will say that it come back via toon force since that radio had done many "cantoony" weird stuff like moving in his own, shown emotions and sweating, so coming back after get explode somehow isn't that weird, Anyway I can see why that feat may not seen as valid feat)

Ace Attorney have more tier 9 feats than Dangonranba and there is more characters can damage Wright. I personally really feel that someone like pheonix be a stone wall is kinda weird

Chiaki hurts Teruteru I believe (which is what the scaling comes from), and of course every single murderer kills their victims. I am not seeing the same here.

Making someone lose their hair is likely incalculable, making a radio explode is likely unusable and just a gag, and looking up "kity bride" gives me no results, which suggests to me you have messed up her name. I am not too knowledgeable on these games, but if the feats are done by people who're clearly more powerful than Wright then they wouldn't scale to him

Is it possible to make a animal lose consciousness by attacking him with a whip 11 to 16 time IRL?

Are you seriously going to start arguing about how often she hit him? I could go and argue that with the kind of damage a whip inflicts Wright would clearly be cut and not knocked out, as knocking out with AP happens via blunt force, which is not what whips use. Yet not even a scratch.

 

[Lord_JJJ]

Are you seriously going to start arguing about how often she hit him? I could go and argue that with the kind of damage a whip inflicts Wright would clearly be cut and not knocked out, as knocking out with AP happens via blunt force, which is not what whips use. Yet not even a scratch.

Yeh, I feel that it was a dump argument now, anyway I had nothing to add more here for now

 

[Armorchompy]

Fair enough lol

 

[Antvasima]

So have you reached a conclusion here?

 

[Armorchompy]

I dunno, Ace Attorney isn't a hotly battleboarded verse but it's fairly popular in general so I'd like to give it one or two days of bumping first.