The Big Bleach Speed CRT

[AppleLord]

@AppleLord; that hasn't been accepted. Personally I don't think it should be used because there's no telling that the two distances being used are equivalent.

We could use Ichigo's reiatsu statement from Shinji to back this low-ball. Ichigo's reiatsu was felt across all of Karakura Town (19,443.2534 km in diameter if we use the novels) while been weaker than Yamamoto. 13 miles is a low-ball as Karakura is bigger than that. The total population of Karakura exceeds one hundred thousand, but I used that number.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Ichigo's reiatsu was felt across all of Karakura Town (19,443.2534 km in diameter if we use the novels) while been weaker than Yamamoto.

I mean if Ichigo's reiatsu could adversely affect all karakura (while in shikai) i dont see why Yama's wouldn't, considering Yama >>>>>>> end of ss arc shikai Ichigo.

Alternatively you could say the deadly range of Yama's rc is whatever size chunk of Karakura they displaced for FKT.

 

[Damage3245]

We don't know to what distance Nanao wouldn't be able to breathe while in Yamaoto's presence. Just because she's struggling while around ten meters away from him doesn't mean she'd be under the same effects while a kilometer away, or five kilometers, or further.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

We don't know to what distance Nanao wouldn't be able to breathe while in Yamaoto's presence. Just because she's struggling while around ten meters away from him doesn't mean she'd be under the same effects while a kilometer away, or five kilometers, or further.

I think it'd be fair to assume Shunsui would have put nanao out of Yama's attack range, which we see is about the size of FKT.

 

[AppleLord]

We don't know to what distance Nanao wouldn't be able to breathe while in Yamaoto's presence. Just because she's struggling while around ten meters away from him doesn't mean she'd be under the same effects while a kilometer away, or five kilometers, or further.

Why would he risk her life at a closer range when 13 km was disintegrating souls in FKT?

 

[AppleLord]

Where the assumption rules removed from the calc page? Damage is deleting all calcs that had assumptions on them the moment the people that he mentioned to talk to him on private come in and agree on the content revision threat with no explanation. He flat steps to close it before any other mod has a say on it. Mmm. Suspicious. He is abusing the rules by having two of his friends agree with him before the threat is even made. This may not be true but it is how Damage is making himself look by closing threats under 24 hours as soon as the same two other guys come in and agree with him. Forgive my accusations but Damage needs to change his strategy.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

The fact that threads are made immediately, agreed to immediately and then closed up fast, yea.

 

[Damage3245]

Why would he risk her life at a closer range when 13 km was disintegrating souls in FKT?

Why are you assuming Nanao, a Vice Captain, is equivalent to a random low-level Hollow?

@AppleLord; kindly keep your accusations to yourself unless you want to back them up with something and take this further. I don't care what your opinions are about me - I call out rubbish when I see it. Focus on the revisions at hand instead of trying to attack the character of the person making the revision.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I think it'd be fair to assume Shunsui would have put nanao out of Yama's attack range, which we see is about the size of FKT.

This ^ is all you need to assume 13km range, since iirc FKT was like 13km, and Yama's attack range is the entirety of FKT at least in shikai.

 

[Zoro21043]

Why are you assuming Nanao, a Vice Captain, is equivalent to a random low-level Hollow?

the range in SS should actually be longer because yama there was getting ready to fight while in fkt he was saving up his flames to attack aizen later as we saw (logically u dont want your enemy to know that so he was suppressing himself so his plan wont be noticed based on that logic) not to mention the low level hollow who is above a whole(normal soul) got crushed while the whole didnt so they purposely were suppressing themselves at that moment and directing their reiatsu at the hollows only

 

[AppleLord]

Why are you assuming Nanao, a Vice Captain, is equivalent to a random low-level Hollow?

@AppleLord; kindly keep your accusations to yourself unless you want to back them up with something and take this further. I don't care what your opinions are about me - I call out rubbish when I see it. Focus on the revisions at hand instead of trying to attack the character of the person making the revision.

I can easily back up everything I said with screenshots, it's no surprise to anyone. I was advising you to change tactics before you accumulate a lot of heat with the same strategy.

 

[Tyri456]

Even do I think the calc of Shunsui make sense plot wise, Damage is right about the fact that we actually do not know the exact distance because too much variables.

so that calc can be too uncertain given what we know.

(I still agree that he is too severe against other calc that has assumption like the one with Ulquiorra that was fine, but I agree with him this time)

if you guys can’t really achieve a conclusion, I would suggest using as low-end compromise 70% of the distance shown of 22km.
because nanao is > hollow, but Yamamoto was serious in the SS, and nanao was in point of dying. So we know that Shunsui somehow should have covered a distance of similar range.

Please, do not start attack personally each other, one thing is debating the other start this type of pointless discussion.

 

[Damage3245]

Before we move onto the next thing, I'll make sure that the blog post is updated with the Bankai Ichigo calc taken into account so we can see the updated ratings. A lot of characters will be bumped up to MHS, and some might reach MHS+.

 

[Damage3245]

Can somebody double-check the sandbox to see who else should be affected by the Ichigo calc?

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Did the 2nd VOL. Came out or is it tomorrow?

 

[Damage3245]

No idea when others will get it, but my copy isn't arriving until the 26th.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Did the 2nd VOL. Came out or is it tomorrow?

No idea when others will get it, but my copy isn't arriving until the 26th.

I get mine tomorrow night, I plan on dropping the relevant speed quote of discussion in here probably in like the next 30 hours.

 

[AppleLord]

Can somebody double-check the sandbox to see who else should be affected by the Ichigo calc?

[73261e1f7190cc33] 2020-11-03 15:32:32: Fatal exception of type "InvalidArgumentException"

 

[Damage3245]

[73261e1f7190cc33] 2020-11-03 15:32:32: Fatal exception of type "InvalidArgumentException"

Fandom seems to be down.

 

[Hasch]

Why are pre TS calcs needed if we can infer their speeds from the characters that didn't get faster even in the last arc?

Senior captains are stable powerlevels and lieutenants at the end aren't on any pre TS captain's level but they are still able to somewhat react to all the MHS+/Relativistic Qiuincy running around.

 

[Damage3245]

@Hasch; for all of the current Pre-Timeskip keys and profiles.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Why are pre TS calcs needed if we can infer their speeds from the characters that didn't get faster even in the last arc?

Senior captains are stable powerlevels and lieutenants at the end aren't on any pre TS captain's level but they are still able to somewhat react to all the MHS+/Relativistic Qiuincy running around.

I'm pretty sure it's stated that in between SS and Arrancar arc everyone trained their asses off, and I want to say we had some statements that in between the end of the war and the start of the Quincy Invasion people were training because they felt they weren't prepared enough for Aizen level threats. So I don't think we can backscale like that, except for a few exceptions (Yama is stagnant in his ways so he likely kept a constant power throughout the series, outside the fact that he lost an arm he may have weakened).

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

Yes, they trained for 17 months as stated on the manga that they where training like crazy in an even of a aizen level threat

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Welcome back to the fun people, having just got CFYOW II in the mail here are the golden quotes:

"Tokinada laughed loudly as he, of course, bounced back a lightning strike dealt by an enemy with a swing of his sword." pg305

"He was either moving fast enough to react to lightning or he was predicting his enemy's behavior--either way, it was evidence Tokinada possessed abilities in battle that were not to be disregarded." pg306

These quotes are taken from when Tokinada was fighting the assassins.

First, regarding this "or he was predicting his enemy's behavior", no Tokinada is not slower than lightning he already scales to FTL via scaling to Yoruichi. This isn't a speed feat for Tokinada, this is just him casually dicking around.

Now to the meat of this. The author calls the assassin's attack "a lightning strike" and then later goes on to say to be able to dodge it you have to be able "to react to lightning" meaning that in this instance "lightning strike" is not flowery language, but it is literal. So there you have it folks, lightning speed fodder assassins.

The calc in question that this matters for is this: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:USklaverei/Yoruichi_oppressing_Onmitsukidō

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi; it sounds like he deflecting the lightning with his sword, not that he is reacting to the speed of the assassins themselves. It isn't stated that the assassins are moving as fast as lightning.

The fact that he "bounced it back", like he earlier bounced fireballs seems to make it certain.

This lines up with one of the earlier fan translations of the books too.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

We really going to argue it's not lightning speed when the author says to be able to dodge the attack you have to either A. "react to lightning" aka lightning speed or faster or B. "predicting his enemy's behavior" aka aim dodge.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

This says assassins have mhs attacks at least.

What Tokinada says about it or does didn't really matter.

 

[Damage3245]

We really going to argue it's not lightning speed when the author says to be able to dodge the attack you have to either A. "react to lightning" aka lightning speed or faster or B. "predicting his enemy's behavior" aka aim dodge.

Reread my post, I never said it wasn't lightning speed.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

This says assassins have mhs attacks at least.

Reread my post, I never said it wasn't lightning speed.

There's evidence in the series that characters are relative to their attack speed. Ichigo outruns his own attacks all the time.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just saying they at least have mhs attack speed which cant really be disputed.

 

[Damage3245]

There's evidence in the series that characters are relative to their attack speed. Ichigo outruns his own attacks all the time.

Okay.... Ichigo outrunning his own attack =/= Everyone in the series can outrun their own attacks.

I think we ought to drop that calc now.

@Sigurd; to be clear, at least one of the assassins has an MHS attack. That's all we can really get out of that.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

All the assassins would be capable of it, they're no names so I don't see the point of distinguishing this detail.

 

[Damage3245]

All the assassins would be capable of it, they're no names so I don't see the point of distinguishing this detail.

Why would they be?

One of the assassins used his Zanpakuto to shoot fireballs at Tokinada. Should we assume every assassin can create fireballs?

We don't have any reason to assume every assassin can shoot lightning.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

Because they're fodder without even a shikai. They just like the other trash with a simple zanpakuto but they specialize in assassinations and espionage.

Idk why you're trying to make this one seem unique when nothing points to it.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Okay.... Ichigo outrunning his own attack =/= Everyone in the series can outrun their own attacks.

I think we ought to drop that calc now.

There's a difference in describing an attack as shooting fireballs from one's sword and describing an attack as a lightning strike.

I don't agree with dismissing the attack as having inherently fired off some kind of lightning similar to firing off a fireball. The attack doesn't have to shoot lightning like the fireballs to be a lightning strike, and the lightning can still be bounced off even if it was per se coating the attacker's blade.

We don't have any reason to assume every assassin can shoot lightning.

Nothing said the assassin couldn't have coated the blade in lightning, never is it mentioned that the assassin shot lightning.

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi; even if you were right, that passage from the novel isn't enough to make me content with assuming that every single assassin in the assassin corps has lightning-speed reaction times.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

@Arc7Kuroi; even if you were right, that passage from the novel isn't enough to make me content with assuming that every single assassin in the assassin corps has lightning-speed reaction times.

Is it not logical to assume that the Onmitsukido corps who have went through actual training with zanpakuto and whatnot to be faster than a no name assassin who picked up a zanpakuto willy-nilly off the battlefield?

A level 4 kido, one so easy practically anyone can learn it, we have kido idiots like Renji capable of performing level 30s, is a lightning attack. Lightning speeds aren't anything special in Bleach. Byakuya literally had to pike Ichigo to the ground so he couldn't move to ensure that he'd hit him with a point blank lightning attack. Mans literally thought that unless this nerfed, injured, slower Ichigo was held in place he wouldn't be able to tag him with lightning.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

This particular group the punishment force which Soi Fon leads specialize in combat and Hakudo. The group that attacked Yourichi is the same group so no it doesn't have to be every single assassin since some don't specialize in open combat.

 

[Damage3245]

@Arc7Kuroi; I think we'd be reaching a bit too far with these assumptions, just to try and justify a Sub-Rel calc for Yoruichi.

Do the rest of the ratings I've posted in the blog post for Pre-Timeskip Bleach speeds make sense?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I think we'd be reaching a bit too far with these assumptions, just to try and justify a Sub-Rel calc for Yoruichi.

Ah yes, calling an attack lightning speed and assuming it is as such is quite the reach. Can't forget either that assuming trained assassins are faster than nobody assassins is also quite the reach, mmmm yes.

I think we'd be reaching a bit too far assuming that the attack shot out lightning, just to make it so Yoruichi can't be that fast.