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Small addition for Pokémon gods

The_real_cal_howard

The_real_cal_howard

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The Lake Trio created all the souls in the multiverse. By proxy, they, the CT, and Arceus predate souls. Shouldn't they have immunity to soul manipulation?
 
I thought they just defined the characteristic of the souls (knowledge, emotions and willpower)? When was it stated that souls were absent before?
 
In a myth. It basically said that the Creation Trio created all matter while the Lake Trio created all spirit.
 
I agree with this, in addition in the description of Palkia it is stated that it is "alive, yet not alive", which indicates to us that the members of the creation trio lack of spirit and soul.
 
Now that I think about it, probably the Creation Trio should have Soul Manipulation and Empathic Manipulation as abilities because Cyrus's original plan is to eliminate all emotion and spirit of existence with the help of Dialga / Palkia and would have succeeded if it were not for the intervention of the Lake Trio (or the intervention of Giratina in platinum).

""Dialga, the mythical Pokémon, and the master of time! ...And the other. Palkia, the mythical Pokémon, and the master of space and dimensions!"
"I've waited so long for this moment, Dialga and Palkia. Shaping this world is a double spiral of time and space. Yes, the very things that you have the ability to control! You will do my bidding! I will have your abilities as mine! With the power I wield, I will create an entirely new world! The incomplete and ugly world we have now can disappear. I am resetting everything to zero. Nothing can remain. It is all for making the ultimate world. A world of complete perfection. Nothing so vague and incomplete as spirit can remain."
"...I should have expected as much. Uxie, "The Being of Knowledge." Azelf, "The Being of Willpower." And Mesprit, "The Being of Emotion"..."
"The Pokémon have come to protect Sinnoh? Pathetic and worthless. It takes the three of them, the three lake Pokémon that symbolize spirit, to balance either the Pokémon of time or space. But they can't maintain balance against the two. Not when both Dialga and Palkia are here. Their coming here is in vain. So much meaningless drama. Now, <player>. You've constantly interfered with my plans, but you will be forgiven. After all, there will remain no spirit for all time when I am done. All spirit will disappear. It will be ripped away... From you! From your Pokémon! From those precious to you...! It is time! My dream will be my reality!""
 
Oh yeah I forgot about that. They were going to be used to cleanse all Spirit from the verse that the Lake Guardians created. And seeing as how Cyrus clearly specified he was going to use them to rip away the souls from People and Pokemon, wouldnt that also be bypassing durability?
 
Wouldn't Gravity Manipulation be more appropriate? For the cascade I mean.

@Kukui

Soul Manipulation always ignore durability unless the opposite can be proven.
 
Ok. I think that only unsealed Giratina should have it though
 
I have no problem with what's been mentioned, by the way Cal you should likely remove Arceus Regen considering most people agreed that characters like him just come back through their type 9 immortality.
 
Thanks @Cal, also adds Soul Manipulation and Empathic Manipulation for Dialga, Palkia and Giratina.

Also Death manipulation via Destiny Bond for Giratina.
 
The fact that the Lake Trio embodies Willpower, Emotion, and Intelligence means that they embody consciousness, not necessarily the soul.

I think taking an extremely vague statement, "Alive, yet not alive." is a bit too speculatory to say that they don't have a soul.

Disobeying the laws of physics =/= Physics Manipulation.
 
Creating a world which disobey to them is Physics Manipulation though.
 
That, or according to Cthulhu's page, it's Higher Dimensional Manipulation. I'm fine with either, given that I didn't even bring it up.

Also, I removed the regen.
 
That's kinda different though. We are talking about a separate universe where everything that enters have to obey to different laws of physics
 
Pretty much half of the powers on the wiki can be classified as Reality Warping. Calling it Physics Manipulation is just being more specific
 
But Giratina has not only created a world that disobeys the laws of physics but also Giratina is the same world.
 
@NeoZex and Kaltias

Unless Giratina specifically uses his abilities to manipulate the laws of physics, I can't see it as a power separate from his existing reality warping abilities.
 
Well everyone else who enters the Distortion World has to obey the laws, such as the shifts in gravity, unflowing time and unstable space. Giratina on the other hand lives through that on a daily basis without being affected one bit, especially since he IS the Distortion World.
 
I see the reason and it's that the next time someone looks at Giratina's page and I tell them "Giratina can use his Reality Warping to control physical laws, such as manipulating gravity" I will be told "it's not on the profile, make a CRT".

Arceus's conceptual manipulation, existence erasure, and space-time manipulation also fall squarely under what can be classified as Reality Warping. But they are here to show that he can do those things.
 
@Kukui

That only lends further credence to the my argument.

Just because Giratina disobeys the laws of physics doesn't mean he controls physics itself. He's just not keen on things like gravity.
 
@Kaltias

That's only because he's the Creation God who is explicitly stated to have created everything. I don't want to be adding powers based on super vague statements like "Alive, but not alive."
 
That wasn't my point. My point was that even if Reality Warping technically already covers it, it should be listed for the sake of accuracy.

It isn't based on that statement. It's based on the Lake Trio creating souls. But at this point I want to go check the legend myself.
 

From itself again, three living things

the Original One did make.

The two beings wished, and from them,

matter came to be.

The three living things wished, and

from them, spirit came to be.

The world created, the Original One

took to unyielding sleep...
~ Pokemon DP​
Original One is obviously Arceus. The two are Dialga and Palkia (Giratina was purposefully forgotten). The three are Mesprit, Azelf, and Uxie.
 
In addition, the spirit is not the same as consciousness, they have always been portrayed independently.

"When that spirit came to be, there followed awareness about the world.
Within the newborn spirit, time and space were intertwined as one.
People and Pokémon, too, were but the same presence.
As I understand it, people and Pokémon shared the spirit and awareness."
Also the world where the souls go after dying is called Spirit World in Japanese.
https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Ghost_World
Also the souls in Pokemon have always been called spirits, for example the description of Dusknoir.
 
It would have been nice if you brought those up earlier.

Still not sold on Physics Manipulation. Also, predating the creation of other souls does not mean that Arceus and the Creation Trio lack a soul.
 
It pretty much refer to souls as a whole though. "And from them the spirit came to be". It doesn't say that they created more souls, it says that they created all of them.
 
"In the beginning, there was only
a churning turmoil of chaos.
At the heart of chaos, where all
things became one, appeared an Egg.
Having tumbled from the vortex, the
Egg gave rise to the Original One."
In Arceus's description it is said that he was born when there was nothing instead of when there was only chaos, which makes it obvious that the egg itself is the total realization of the primordial chaos.
 
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