One Piece revision. Help needed.

KinkiestSins · Mar 30, 2017

To those who were not here for the previous post, I will give you a tl:dr from the last post

We are revisiting (I think WB calcs)

We discounted the Doflamingo Power.

Scaling for 6-B for God Tiers: Yonko,Roger, Sengoku and Garp was accept.

We are revisting Doflamingo Calc, OP World, etc.

Fujitora has 6-B in environmental destruction,not AP.

And most important of all Imo.

We disapproved the current scaling on this site with all the small country and country busters.

Check these two threads out for the history of this scenario.

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/659695

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/660068#296

So I will keep this scaling simple since most of this was already discussed in either thread.

God Tiers: Yonko, Roger, Sengoku, Garp, Mihawk get a 6-B ranking for now because of Fujitora's meteor.

Doflamingo should be comprable to Big Mom's three commanders, as they should be comparable to him. Luffy scales from Doflamingo as well as Law. Sanji and Zoro also are around the strength of Base Luffy. Sabo also goes here. The Three Calamitys, including jack should go here.

The 9 commanders for Doflamingo are in the City to Mountain Level range and their opponents go here. (that remained unchanged), as well as Brook, Robin, Franky. Pretty much everyone from dressrosa are here.

Chinjao's ice continent busting calc is being revisited, I will leave his scaling at. But he is probably at most comparable to Base Luffy as well.

When the new calcs get posted, I will edit this post properly with new scaling, but the scaling should be similar to this.

Edit: Cin told me to scale Luffy, Doflamingo and Law to Fujitora

NOTE: Only staff members, former staff members, CinCameron20, and KinkiestSins are allowed to reply to this thread.

CinCameron20 · Mar 30, 2017

No, remove the bit with anything to do with tier 5 and 4. I don't want to see that. It's giving people the wrong idea.

Doflamingo doesn't scale off of the commanders.

God tiers scale from Fujitora's meteorites, and that means the same for Fujitora himself since he can't be much weaker than Akainu.

As a result, Luffy in base scales to Fujitora, and so does Doflamingo and Law.

KinkiestSins · Mar 30, 2017

CinCameron20 said:
No, remove the bit with anything to do with tier 5 and 4. I don't want to see that. It's giving people the wrong idea.
Doflamingo doesn't scale off of the commanders.

God tiers scale from Fujitora's meteorites, and that means the same for Fujitora himself since he can't be much weaker than Akainu.

As a result, Luffy in base scales to Fujitora, and so does Doflamingo and Law.

Done

He should, Luffy beat Doflamingo and they should be in some aspect comparable to him. I will rephrase too comparable to the commanders.

Could have sworn I put the last two in.

CinCameron20 · Mar 30, 2017

The Commanders scale to Luffy, and if we're going to have Luffy scale to Fujitora, Doflamingo also scales to Luffy.

KinkiestSins · Mar 30, 2017

CinCameron20 said:
The Commanders scale to Luffy, and if we're going to have Luffy scale to Fujitora, Doflamingo also scales to Luffy.

I dont necesarilly think I agree with that when I think about it.

Luffy never did fight Fujitora for long anyway, it seemed like a quick skirmish that should probably not be considered in the scaling.

That said, agree with the other two statements to a point.

Commanders scale to Luffy, Doflamingo scales to luffy.

PaChi2 · Mar 30, 2017

No, you cant have the "Since fujitora shouldnt be much weaker, we should scale to Akainu". We already discussed that Fujitora doesnt have 6-B AP by himself (he needs the meteorites, which are an external source). You want this to go as before:

Meteorites scale to akainu, to which Fujitora scales, to which Luffy and doffy scales. You are scaling doffy and luffy again to the meteorites, which is not what was talked.

Grudgeman1706 · Mar 30, 2017

CinCameron20 said:
No, remove the bit with anything to do with tier 5 and 4. I don't want to see that. It's giving people the wrong idea.

Doflamingo doesn't scale off of the commanders.

God tiers scale from Fujitora's meteorites, and that means the same for Fujitora himself since he can't be much weaker than Akainu.

As a result, Luffy in base scales to Fujitora, and so does Doflamingo and Law.

Cin if I drew up how you scaled the characters right here it would be a literal circle. By your own words and scaling, your saying BASE luffy can contend with akainu, and somehow you scaled Fujitora to himself.

I go on vacation in two days, I'll write up my own version for how we scale everyone and than you and the others can critique.

KinkiestSins · Mar 30, 2017

Cin if I drew up how you scaled the characters right here it would be a literal circle. By your own words and scaling, your saying BASE luffy can contend with akainu, and somehow you scaled Fujitora to himself.

I go on vacation in two days, I'll write up my own version for how we scale everyone and than you and the others can critique.

Isn't there a word for that? Circular reasoning, correct?

I think this is correct myself, but I am interested in hearing your thoughts.

But can you give me a tl:dr on what you disagree/agree with?

KinkiestSins · Mar 30, 2017

PaChi2 said:
No, you cant have the "Since fujitora shouldnt be much weaker, we should scale to Akainu". We already discussed that Fujitora doesnt have 6-B AP by himself (he needs the meteorites, which are an external source). You want this to go as before:

Are you talking to me or Cin?

KuuIchigo · Mar 30, 2017

Really. Are you using that "shouldn't be much weaker" to scale again? Didn't we literally go over this in the other thread?

KinkiestSins · Mar 30, 2017

KuuIchigo said:
Really. Are you using that "shouldn't be much weaker" to scale again? Didn't we literally go over this in the other thread?

If you are talking to me, please point out what is wrong and I will agree/disagree and change appropriately.

KuuIchigo · Mar 30, 2017

My bad. I was directing it at Cin.

PaChi2 · Mar 30, 2017

Sorry, it was directed at Cin.

CinCameron20 · Mar 30, 2017

I'm just going to unfollow the thread.

KinkiestSins · Mar 30, 2017

@KuulIchigo, Pa and Grudge

I use circular reasoning alot,so please point out where it applies and does not apply.

Antvasima · Mar 30, 2017

Hmm. There are a lot of replies here already. Perhaps I should move this thread to the staff board, and only make it available to staff members, former staff members, CinCameron20, and KinkiestSins?

KinkiestSins · Mar 30, 2017

Antvasima said:
Hmm. There are a lot of replies here already. Perhaps I should move this thread to the staff board, and only make it available to staff members, former staff members, CinCameron20, and KinkiestSins?

I agree,

Only because this is such a...divisive topic.

Hell, It is hard to nerf my 'favorite' anime series.

Antvasima · Mar 30, 2017

I have done so.

KinkiestSins · Mar 31, 2017

Joseph619 · Mar 31, 2017

Can somebody add me to the list? I would like to participate thoroughly after an assignment tomorrow. There aren't many staff member who read One Piece and I should be able to contribute

Antvasima · Mar 31, 2017

Okay. You can also help out.

Grudgeman1706 · Mar 31, 2017

You may critique my points on my wall if you wish, I don't want normal users to get the right idea that if they are knowledgeable about one piece they can join in on this thread.

We made some exceptions with cin and kinkiest sins because they contributed greatly to the last one but that's it.

We already have at least 4-5 members on the staff who read one piece so their is no need for more voices Joseph.

I understand your goal and once again old like to remind you, you may speak with me on my wall and give your opinion there.

KinkiestSins · Mar 31, 2017

Yeah, Ant gave you the thumbs up. Honestly you didnt say anything super radical compared to most of the comments. The only reason why is it is restricted is because the last one got super big @Joseph.

KinkiestSins · Mar 31, 2017

@Grudge Cin unfollowed this thread though. Not sure if he is willing to contribute this time. I value his opinion. Not sure though if he is willing to debate anymore

Antvasima · Mar 31, 2017

Hmm. We do need his input to get anywhere.

KuuIchigo · Mar 31, 2017

@Ant: Why? You do know the reason why this has happened was because of Cin's really bad scaling, right?

Grudgeman1706 · Mar 31, 2017

Antvasima said:
Hmm. We do need his input to get anywhere.

That isn't true ant, we have 5 staff members who have all read one piece(including you and me) working on this revison.

it doesn't really help his case that the reason we are fixing the scaling in the first place is becasue of him(no offense.)

We don't need the green light from cin everytime we make a decision on one piece, he doesn't have a monopoly on the verse, despite his extensive knowledge of said verse.

It's not fair to the other memebers here ant if you continue to give cin power over one piece.

I very much respect his opinion, and when I'm done writing up the revisions I made, I'm more than open to receive opinions or criticism from him.

Antvasima · Mar 31, 2017

Well, he has been very helpful regarding One Piece in the past, but okay, I suppose that we will have to try to make do without him.

ScarletFirefly · Mar 31, 2017

Cin is saying Fujitora's meteors scale to Akainu, Fujitora scales to his meteors since he "can't be much weaker than Akainu" and Base Luffy scales to Fujitora. From this line of reasoning, Base Luffy is on par with Akainu and that is not true at all.

KinkiestSins · Mar 31, 2017

^I do agree Fujitora and Akainu cant be too far apart. But Base Luffy is not equal to Fujitora.

The only character who might scale to Fujitora from Dressrosa is Sabo

What I am concerned with is personally where to put dragon. Imo, he cant just stay as Unknown.

Antvasima · Mar 31, 2017

Okay. So, do you all have suggestions for how we should rescale One Piece?

KinkiestSins · Mar 31, 2017

Are we going to add God Tiers ant because if so, that will make my scaling different?

Grudgeman1706 · Mar 31, 2017

Antvasima said:
Okay. So, do you all have suggestions for how we should rescale One Piece?

As I've stated before, I've written down my own proper one Piece scaling list, but it won't be ready until tomorrow(due to schooling and exta curricular activities.

I'd appreciate if we can't hold off any discussions until tomorrow so that we can get this done properly and quickly

Joseph619 · Mar 31, 2017

ScarletFirefly said:
Cin is saying Fujitora's meteors scale to Akainu, Fujitora scales to his meteors since he "can't be much weaker than Akainu" and Base Luffy scales to Fujitora. From this line of reasoning, Base Luffy is on par with Akainu and that is not true at all.

Not just that, it would also imply Gear 4 Luffy is capable of beating an admiral when he had a very hard time beating Cracker despite having enough food source to replinish his energy.

Antvasima · Mar 31, 2017

Okay. Our contributors must be willing to adjust all of the profiles as well, however.

KinkiestSins · Mar 31, 2017

To get a discussion going, I have some questions to ask everyone I guess we should think about. Who should we include in god tiers that have not been listed with before?

Who scales from Doflamingo, luffy etc.

What defines low, mid and upper mid tiers (some characters are in low or mid tiers but are actually powerful in context of whole world. Nami and Ussop come to mind. Weak in the new world, but they are probably stronger then all east blue pirates and maybe first half of the grand line pirates if you wanna be real mean)

Since Crocodile has unknown in his profile, should be provide the same courtesy for characters we havent seen fight yet? Boa Hancock and Weevil come to mind?

Where should we place dragon?

Stuff like that.

Antvasima · Mar 31, 2017

Dragon is most likely comparable to Whitebeard, but we do not know yet, so it is probably best to wait with placing statistics on his profile.

KinkiestSins · Mar 31, 2017

Antvasima said:
Dragon is most likely comparable to Whitebeard, but we do not know yet, so it is probably best to wait.

I am more passionate about the second to last question. Some warlords we dont know their upper limit, Hancock and Weevil come to mind. And the question regarding low tiers.

Brook as low tier? Really? He fought somewhat okay with Ryuma and a samurai complimented his sword play. Does he really deserve to be a low tier considering he can probably one shot most east blue pirates and maybe some of the numbered pairs from baroque works? Just spitballing here. I proposed Dragon to be Possibly 6-B, but I dropped it considering people wanted him left at unknown. Which i think is better then selling him too high or too low

Edit: I used the brook example as more of an example of how the tiers up to mid tiers make no sense.

KinkiestSins · Mar 31, 2017

Joseph619 said:
Prime Garp, Prime Sengoku, Gold Roger, Whitebeard, Prime Shiki should be God Tiers I guess

Blackbeard, Shanks, Akainu, Fujitora, Aokiji, Kizaru, Mihawk, Big Mom, Kaido, Rayleigh would be top tier

@Kinkiest

Other then Film Z, which isnt canon, we dont know anything about Shiki's power And all the yonko are at least comparable to whitebeard, they probably best fit under god tier.

If you want to be stingy about some of the yonko being stronger then others, maybe Blackbeard can be scaled similarily to prime whitebeard and thus would put him in god tier.

Admirals though, I kinda am not sure if they should be put in top or god tier. Maybe Akainu and Aokiji is best in god tier, but not Fujitora.

There is more nuance with the admirals.

Edit: Noticed you edited your comment, mostly agree But Shiki needs to stay out of god tier imo.

KinkiestSins · Mar 31, 2017

We tend to forget him, but Commander in Chief Kong used to be a fleet admiral during Rogers time

He might also be put in at least top tier, maybe god tier.

One Piece revision. Help needed.

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