• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Resisting Esdeaths Timestop

No_Might

No_Might

271
27
Ok so in this thread im going to be arguing for cold resistance actually being a reason to be immune to esdeaths time stop.

Know many people belive this not being the case is because tatsumi was still affected the first time she used it even though incursio was resistant to frozen tundras but the thing is that tatsumi was knocked out the first time she used it. he wasnt consious.

also https://imgur.com/a/05NXfmv There'd be no need to mention how Incursio evolved to move in a frozen tundra other than to express how her time stop is an extension of her ice manipulation.

and as for the post scrips https://imgur.com/H8nS3Bo there are multiple translations of this and im pretty sure it isnt to be taken seriously (if the translation is right) judging from her saying its all in the pose.

and for me it would only make sense for an ice base teigu to freeze time via its ability to lower tempatures rather than just randomly stopping time some other way
 
Leaning towards disagree, Esdeath was aware of Incursio's resistance to the cold/Ice and yet she said that she developed Mahapadma so that he wouldn't be able to escape her again.
 
ViperVillian25 said:
Leaning towards disagree, Esdeath was aware of Incursio's resistance to the cold/Ice and yet she said that she developed Mahapadma so that he wouldn't be able to escape her again.
Click to expand...
i believe its mostly because she was surprised it could adapt to the level of cold that is her ts. thats why i think she brought up a frozen tundra
 
Yeah I believe resistance to ice or extreme cold is definitely enough to ignore it. Also iirc it doesn't have a trump card either meaning timestop should not be a thing. It should just be ice based.
 
Perhaps, however the last time she uses Mahapadma she states that she heard that Incursio was already resistant to the Cold and then she was surprised that It adapted to her Frozen Space, couple that with Esdeath's own description of her move to Freeze Time and Space, it would seem to me that she isn't targeting anyone specific, just the Space and Time.

Also if she was freezing the people specifically then she wouldn't need to go over and kill them afterwards as they would technically be in cased in ice, which they aren't.
 
I also said cold resistance/immune can counter it. i was about to make a thread on this today but you beat me to. A least someone noticed this to and brought it up. People take her saying she froze time to seriously and ignore context. Its just an area of cold where those who have no resistance to those temps will be frozen in stasis. 99% of esdeath of oppenent didnt have it till tatsumi.

ViperVillian25 said:
Leaning towards disagree, Esdeath was aware of Incursio's resistance to the cold/Ice and yet she said that she developed Mahapadma so that he wouldn't be able to escape her again.
Click to expand...
Esdeath was aware of full dragon incursio resistance not tatsumi. Thats why she was surprised, she didnt think tatsumi was that strong. Esdeath said so herself incursio can become strong enough to survive cold tundra even bulat said this when tatsumi got incursio. So prior to evolving Tatsumi didnt have that lvl of power and strong adaptability. Its when tatsumi takes more power from incursio does his adaptability become stronger to that of full dragon incursio like at the end when he changed in incursio
 
ViperVillian25 said:
Perhaps, however the last time she uses Mahapadma she states that she heard that Incursio was already resistant to the Cold and then she was surprised that It adapted to her Frozen Space, couple that with Esdeath's own description of her move to Freeze Time and Space, it would seem to me that she isn't targeting anyone specific, just the Space and Time.

Also if she was freezing the people specifically then she wouldn't need to go over and kill them afterwards as they would technically be in cased in ice, which they aren't.
Click to expand...
This is essentially it.

Esdeath knows Incursio is an adaptive Teigu, in the beginning of the series when Tatsumi gets Incursio Bulat tells the audience how Incursio adapted to a frozen tundra before, a story Esdeath has heard about too.

She attributes it's adaption ability she heard about as why it was possible for Incursio to adapt to the timestop.

This is a Volume addition by the author Takahiro and it says how Esdeath is freezing time and space with her power. Having a resistance to cold would not make you resistant nor immune to an ability that doesnt target you as it targets time and space directly and not people.

Saying that being cold resistant makes you immune imploes she targets people and things directly which wouldn't make sense as things freeze in air like people and Mine's laser.
 
Rocker1189 said:
Yeah I believe resistance to ice or extreme cold is definitely enough to ignore it. Also iirc it doesn't have a trump card either meaning timestop should not be a thing. It should just be ice based.
Click to expand...
Time Stop is actually a custom made trump card, not a part of its original set of moves
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
This is essentially it.

Esdeath knows Incursio is an adaptive Teigu, in the beginning of the series when Tatsumi gets Incursio Bulat tells the audience how Incursio adapted to a frozen tundra before, a story Esdeath has heard about too.

She attributes it's adaption ability she heard about as why it was possible for Incursio to adapt to the timestop.

This is a Volume addition by the author Takahiro and it says how Esdeath is freezing time and space with her power. Having a resistance to cold would not make you resistant nor immune to an ability that doesnt target you as it targets time and space directly and not people.

Saying that being cold resistant makes you immune imploes she targets people and things directly which wouldn't make sense as things freeze in air like people and Mine's laser.
Click to expand...
That volume addition does not look entirely serious firstly it was Wave who said she froze time and space not Esdeath and then Esdeath states that feezing time and space is all in the pose? Not that it matters particularly as she should know that just resisting extreme cold should not let you be resistant to freezing time and space or wouldnt normally unless it is jus tthe weakness of her teigu which seems to be the case as her teigu is completely ice-based. It wont make sense for her Teigu to be capable of literally freezing time and space unless it was a trump card which we know it is not.

Honestly though regardless the fact that she believe resisting cold temperatures would help against it is kinda damning all together.
 
No one is saying that Mahapadma isn't produced by Esdeath's ice, more that it's targeting Space and Time freezing it to create a temporal space.

It's a form of psudeo Time Stop because she has effectively halted Time's progress with her ice.

Since she isn't targeting anyone specifically, it's doubtful to say people can resist it, unless they evolve and adapt to the Frozen Space during its use like Incursio does, as Incursio evolves and adapts to become resistant/immune to it's enviroment it would make sense that if it was already resistant to cold/ice tempertures that it wouldn't have been affected by Mahapadma in the first place.

To me that implies that Incursio needed to adapt to a different enviroment, which in this case is Time and Space.
 
that makes no sense, he is not adapting to time and space he is adapting to frozen time and space, in other words the cold, also incursio's power is based on the user. It is clear that when you use it for the first time it is not nearly as powerful until it unlocks the stages. The starting stage would not have the cold resistances of the original danger beast. which is why it had to adapt eventually to the cold and could resist her time stop.
 
Incursion itself doesn't actually adapt until after Tatsumi fused with it just before fighting Esdeath. Bilateral also notes that the Danger Beast adapted to Ice Resistance long before he gave it to a Tatsumi which is why in Zero Cold doesn't bother him
 
Schnee One said:
Incursion itself doesn't actually adapt until after Tatsumi fused with it just before fighting Esdeath. Bilateral also notes that the Danger Beast adapted to Ice Resistance long before he gave it to a Tatsumi which is why in Zero Cold doesn't bother him
Click to expand...
which is also why he was able to move for a sec in the level of cold that is her ts
 
Esdeath isn't targeting people, if she was then things would not be frozen in place, they would instead fall to the ground.

Takahiro's additional words in his volumes literally has Esdeath stating it freezes time and space.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
Esdeath isn't targeting people, if she was then things would not be frozen in place, they would instead fall to the ground.
Takahiro's additional words in his volumes literally has Esdeath stating it freezes time and space.
Click to expand...
I am sayign she is targetting everything, targetting people has nothing to do with it. And she herself talks abotu the weakness and how it could be due to the fact that it can resist extemely cold temperatures.
 
If you want to argue the cryostatsis angle you'd have to explain how Mahapadma stopped Mine's Pumpkin blast in place, as it is extension of her mental/spiritual energy it would be difficult to imply anything other than the fact that Time has been stopped.
 
ViperVillian25 said:
If you want to argue the cryostatsis angle you'd have to explain how Mahapadma stopped Mine's Pumpkin blast in place, as it is extension of her mental/spiritual energy it would be difficult to imply anything other than the fact that Time has been stopped.
Click to expand...
I dont think you are getting my point, I am not sayign that time has not been stopped that is very obvious, I am saying that an implied/stated weakness to her time stop is resistance to extreme cold as her time stop is ice-based.
 
ViperVillian25 said:
If you want to argue the cryostatsis angle you'd have to explain how Mahapadma stopped Mine's Pumpkin blast in place, as it is extension of her mental/spiritual energy it would be difficult to imply anything other than the fact that Time has been stopped.
Click to expand...
yes the time HAS been stopped via the dropped tempatures
 
Exactly time has stopped, because Esdeath froze time and space, she didn't specifically freeze Mine or Pumpkin she froze time, and to add further support to Esdeath's own description of Time and Space there doesn't seem to be an implied range for the move, meaning that at the time of Mahapadma use the whole world has stopped.
 
Naeblis495 said:
If she freeze time and space , then you can't resist her time stop with cold resistance .
Click to expand...
Except she implies that having cold resistance does allow you to resist it. It is simply a weakness of her technique since it is ice based.
 
ViperVillian25 said:
Exactly time has stopped, because Esdeath froze time and space, she didn't specifically freeze Mine or Pumpkin she froze time, and to add further support to Esdeath's own description of Time and Space there doesn't seem to be an implied range for the move, meaning that at the time of Mahapadma use the whole world has stopped.
Click to expand...
That is just you extrapolating on absolutely nothing, she would have to state that she froze the entirety of time and space.
 
Which is what she's doing she's freezing time and space, cold resistant would only apply if she was freezing someone or something.

Dropping the temperture of Time and Space to create a frozen space in time, which is what Esdeath and the Author of the manga have stated several times.

Also it's worth noting that Esdeath said something like cold in that scan and then said that Incursio overcame frozen space, which would imply the addition of spacial resistance.
 
Esdeath herself says she's freezes time and space to stop time.

The author in his Volume extra adds that Esdeath freezes time and space to stop time.

There's no feasible way to come to the conclusion that she targets people and things, especially since we have evidence of things freezing in air and lasers being frozen.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
space to stop time.
There's no feasible way to come to the conclusion that she targets people and things, especially since we have evidence of things freezing in air and lasers being frozen.
Click to expand...
I dont know why you keep bringing up this up, I know she does not target people she herself states that he resisted due to his resistance to cold. It is you guys implying that it is a normal time stop when it explicitly is not.
 
ViperVillian25 said:
Also it's worth noting that Esdeath said something like cold in that scan and then said that Incursio overcame frozen space, which would imply the addition of spacial resistance.
Click to expand...
No it implies he resisted freezing, which is exactly what he did.
 
I understand where alot of the debate is coming from, when in relation to Esdeath's power, but how the move is described up to all way up to how it acts and it's purpose show's that Esdeath's objective when she created Mahapadma was to Freeze Time within her surroundings so that she can capture Tatsumi and easily kill her enemies, which if Mahapadma froze them she wouldn't have to do.

As for resisting Mahapadma the fact that she says that Incursio for a brief instant overcome frozen space implies more than just cold resistance, but also resistance to the space that she created in of which time has stopped.
 
ViperVillian25 said:
I understand where alot of the debate is coming from, when in relation to Esdeath's power, but how the move is described up to all way up to how it acts and it's purpose show's that Esdeath's objective when she created Mahapadma was to Freeze Time within her surroundings so that she can capture Tatsumi and easily kill her enemies, which if Mahapadma froze them she wouldn't have to do.
As for resisting Mahapadma the fact that she says that Incursio for a brief instant overcome frozen space implies more than just cold resistance, but also resistance to the space that she created in of which time has stopped.
Click to expand...
You ignore the context of the fact that incursio resist cold temperatures which is entirely the point of her theory.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
Esdeath herself says she's freezes time and space to stop time.
The author in his Volume extra adds that Esdeath freezes time and space to stop time.

There's no feasible way to come to the conclusion that she targets people and things, especially since we have evidence of things freezing in air and lasers being frozen.
Click to expand...
the extra volume as plenty of diffrent translations and ist to be taken seriously.


yes she could freeze time the question is HOW
 
What I'm saying that Incursio adapted to both the Cold temperature created by Mahapadma, but also it's affect which is used to freeze time, One doesn't work without the other, especially since Incursio was already stated to be resistant to the cold from the beginning.

If time frozen you can not progress because it has stopped, so you must first adapt to the fact time has been frozen as well as the temperature of which is keeping it frozen. Just being resistant to the cold doesn't fit with the move's description or purpose.
 
Incursio resists more than just cold temperatures.

A resistance to cold temperature would not make you resistant to an ability that freezes time through freezing time and space.

The reason Esdeath brings up Incursio's cold resistance is because it is known through the empire that Incursio has an adaptive ability that enabled him to become resistant to the temperatures of a frozen tundra. This is literally shown in the start of the series when Bulat ponders on Incursio's adaptive ability when he gave Incursio to Tatsumi.
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
Incursio resists more than just cold temperatures.
A resistance to cold temperature would not make you resistant to an ability that freezes time through freezing time and space.

The reason Esdeath brings up Incursio's cold resistance is because it is known through the empire that Incursio has an adaptive ability that enabled him to become resistant to the temperatures of a frozen tundra. This is literally shown in the start of the series when Bulat ponders on Incursio's adaptive ability when he gave Incursio to Tatsumi.
Click to expand...
There'd be no need to mention how Incursio evolved to move in a frozen tundra other than to express how her time stop is an extension of her ice manipulation. the author is literally having esdeath compare a frozen tundra to her time freeze.


again yes it freezes time and space but the question is HOW it freezes time and space. im saying she lowers tempatures of atoms molecules in the area
 
IMadeThisOn8-1-2017 said:
Incursio resists more than just cold temperatures.
A resistance to cold temperature would not make you resistant to an ability that freezes time through freezing time and space.

The reason Esdeath brings up Incursio's cold resistance is because it is known through the empire that Incursio has an adaptive ability that enabled him to become resistant to the temperatures of a frozen tundra. This is literally shown in the start of the series when Bulat ponders on Incursio's adaptive ability when he gave Incursio to Tatsumi.
Click to expand...
the reason incursio was resistant to the time freeze for a second was because of the resistance of the tundra
 
There isn't sufficient evidence for that.

It seems she is saying: "I heard that Incurso can evolve and adapt to the frozen tundra. So it can even try adapting to frozen time/space." instead "I heard that Incurso can evolve and has already adapted to the frozen, so this gave it the ability to move for a second in this frozen time/space."

Also, how do you define resistance to the frozen tundra? Are you saying that any person in a harsh-weather exosuit with a heating unit is capable of moving for exactly one second in Esdeath's timestop?
 
Lowering the temperature atoms molecules wouldn't achieve frozen space as that would be closer to cryostasis, with cryostasis they'd be no reason for Esdeath and the Author to say that Esdeath Froze Time and Space because time still flows for ice and frozen objects.

The objective and description of Mahapadma is that it freezes Time and Space, she is using her ice as a medium to achieve a different result all together, which is to create a Space where Time has been frozen.

That fact that she mentions Incursio's resistant at the time is to show that Esdeath is aware of Incursio's ability to evolve and adapt, but that fact that she surprised that Incursio was able to move after stating that implies that she doesn't think that would be enough, which is why it makes sense to say that Incursio adapted to the fact that time was frozen in order to move, that is why she said he overcame frozen space.
 
ViperVillian25 said:
Lowering the temperature atoms molecules wouldn't achieve frozen space as that would be closer to cryostasis, with cryostasis they'd be no reason for Esdeath and the Author to say that Esdeath Froze Time and Space because time still flows for ice and frozen objects.
The objective and description of Mahapadma is that it freezes Time and Space, she is using her ice as a medium to achieve a different result all together, which is to create a Space where Time has been frozen.

That fact that she mentions Incursio's resistant at the time is to show that Esdeath is aware of Incursio's ability to evolve and adapt, but that fact that she surprised that Incursio was able to move after stating that implies that she doesn't think that would be enough, which is why it makes sense to say that Incursio adapted to the fact that time was frozen in order to move, that is why she said he overcame frozen space.
Click to expand...
your clearly not dont watch the cartoon. esdeath only is a cold powers and not time. she isnt even does taht on the telly and only when she does doesnt do obviously. if you re-members korrecly she doesnt even use time attall during the fight with the people in the show she alway only alway uses only the always cold power. ur looking into this a lit ttwo much i think. sorry my engrish isnot isnt very bad
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Arkenis
JJK - Downgrade Kashimo
Replies
21
Views
1K
ReaperAndBlues
ReaperAndBlues
Mongus_Congus
  • Locked
Genshin impact: Nahida upgrade
2
Replies
42
Views
2K
Puppet43
Puppet43
McFriesGuy075
Pepsiman (PS1): General CRT (Upgrades, Hax & Scaling Chain)
Replies
15
Views
790
McFriesGuy075
McFriesGuy075
DimeUhDozen
LET IT GO, LET IT GO, CAN'T HOLD IT BACK ANYMORE - An Elsa Revamp
Replies
34
Views
2K
Dalesean027
Dalesean027
DimeUhDozen
Beetlejuice Beetlejuice Upgrades
Replies
7
Views
469
DimeUhDozen
DimeUhDozen
Back
Top