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GT Goku vs Chou Goku

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DTG499

DTG499

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A proper re do of this discussion.

Its tournament of power saga Chou goku and he starts in Completed Super Saiyan Blue. He has access to mastered ultra instinct

It's shadow dragon saga GT goku and he starts in Super Saiyan 4. He has access into his limit broken form.

Speed is equalized.

In character but it's till the death.


GT Goku -1(SSJ10

Chou Goku-7(UchihaSlayer96, ArgosaxDespair, Omegas03,:XSOULOFCINDERX, Nitro90, Spinoirr, Wirewerewolf

Inconclusive-(
 
Following, leaning toward GT Goku for reasons on last thread, but I'll wait for arguments to be fleshed out to vote
 
I vote Chou Goku via AP advantage, Hakai, and UI. Goku was almost Universal in BoG, and he got many many times more powerful since then so he's definitely very high end 3-B. As for the 3-A key he should also be a good bit above baseline. And my understanding of GT is that Goku is only baseline or a little above it. So I think chou wins mid-high diff
 
BakiHanma18 said:
Following, leaning toward GT Goku for reasons on last thread, but I'll wait for arguments to be fleshed out to vote
Click to expand...
A few of the reasons for the last thread were flawed. They both have the same stamina level and SSB defiantly has better Ki control since it's literally a staple of it.
 
I'll refrain from counting that vote for chou until we get more arguments because I don't want another FRA train
 
DTG499 said:
I'll refrain from counting that vote for chou until we get more arguments because I don't want another FRA train
Click to expand...
But I didn't even say FRA lol... I listed the reasons why I think he'd win.
 
DTG499 said:
BakiHanma18 said:
Following, leaning toward GT Goku for reasons on last thread, but I'll wait for arguments to be fleshed out to vote
Click to expand...
A few of the reasons for the last thread were flawed. They both have the same stamina level and SSB defiantly has better Ki control since it's literally a staple of it.
Click to expand...
SSB from the manga is one form with good Ki control. GT Goku even in base has enough Ki control to make SSJ3 viable. Ki control def goes to GT Goku imo on this fact alone. GT also has considerably more experience, but like I said, waiting for other arguments
 
If you want to count 5 years of fighting Uub more experience than fighting Gods and prodigies from other universes then sure. GT Goku's experience started piling up imo after the beginning of the baby arc. Anything before that was pretty low effort imo
 
I'm voting GT Goku, Chou doesn't use hakai in character he did it against zamasu to try and bypass his Regenerationn, he'd also sense that GT is physically weaker than him and that's all the more reason to not hakai. It doesn't help that he can't reliably maintain his 3-A form due to it only lasting for a few seconds while GT's doesn't have this downside. Dragon fist should be able to pierce through Chou due to it piercing through Omega like butter and Chou can't regenerate from it if he gets hit by it.
 
CBslayeR said:
I'm voting GT Goku, Chou doesn't use hakai in character he did it against zamasu to try and bypass his Regenerationn, he'd also sense that GT is physically weaker than him and that's all the more reason to not hakai. It doesn't help that he can't reliably maintain his 3-A form due to it only lasting for a few seconds while GT's doesn't have this downside. Dragon fist should be able to pierce through Chou due to it piercing through Omega like butter and Chou can't regenerate from it if he gets hit by it.
Click to expand...
And is there a particular reason why UI Goku doesn't just one-shot with his speed and AP advantage?
 
CBslayeR said:
Speeds equalized and GT Goku should be more than capable of outlasting him
Click to expand...
Speed's equalized but Goku starts in blue, so UI still gives a boost and instinctive reaction. And you misunderstand me, outlasting won't Matter if he gets one shotted.
 
It would be impossible for GT goku to evade every single attack from instinctive reaction goku for the duration of the form even if it is just a couple seconds. One hit and GT goku is dead.
 
I slightly change my vote. Chou wins mid-diff not high. Honestly I was being generous there. But Chou has nothing holding him back from one-shotting.
 
Goku uses Instantaneous Movement to avoid UI Goku. He absorbs the 1st Ki blast he throws thus being on a greater level than UI Goku. Super Saiyan 4 Goku would launch Ki blast at the right moments to force UI Goku to dodge thus unable to attack him the way he wants too. Super Saiyan 4 Goku will keep the edge in power & stamina thus winning the battle overtime. A collision of fist will help too since it's UI Goku who will take damage in such clash do to the power difference. Goku can finish with a Warp ×10 Kamehameha to ensure death via obvious boost since obvious attacks are heavily lethal.

My vote is SUPER SAIYAN 4 GOKU
 
There would be no reason goku wouldn't be able to use instant transmission while in UI and be more effective with it. It wouldn't even get to that point because UI would speed blitz GT goku before he would even have the time to think of using instant transmission. I don't know why you think a single Ki blast would be a decisive move since we have seen instinctive reaction dodge a plethora of Ki blasts while simultaneously combating people. A collision of fists will not help, if UI goku hits GT goku once he is dead. LB GT goku is baseline 3-A UI goku is 20-40x above that.

It's also been settled by the mod that GT goku can't absorb god Ki
 
Strawman fallacy i: I said against UI Goku. Not UI Goku use Instantaneous Movement.

Nah. Goku doesn't speed blitz. He drags out fights & test the abilities of himself & well.... himself! If Goku is pushing him to UI then he must be something & wants to see more. Now once Goku sees the other is out of options then yes he will finish with an Ultra Kamehameha.

Oh hohohohoho. Goku doesn't use Perfect Ki Control in UI. So absorbing his Ki unrefutable inevitable. Also show me the thread the mods discussed the absorption ability & Perfect Ki Control.
 
What are you taking about?

GT goku would already be at full power and at this point goku would have been pushed into a corner because LBSS4 would have the edge in AP over CSSB. So after getting tossed around for a solid couple minutes by GT goku he breaks his limits goes UI and would one shot him. For goku to let GT goku to power up more(which he can't) he would have the stand there and do literary nothing the whole duration of the UI form, that's his only other alternative is to punch and kill GT goku in one hit. There has never been a scenario in dragon ball where in mid fight goku would just stop attacking, especially after achieving a power up.

In the manga he's using god Ki. Actually to my recollection I don't think they specified what type of Ki he was using. Either way you can't say he absorbs it and goku's absorption isn't limitless.

Just ask the chat mod that you are already aquatinted with.
 
While I'm unaware of the AP gap or speed gap between Super Full Power Saiyan 4 Goku and UI Goku, Goku as an adult had the Ki control to mastered SSJ3, meaning that even in his normal SSJ4 Goku, as he returns to his adult body, should have insanely better Ki control, as even as a SSJ3 child, with emotional support from Pan he was able to control Golden Ozaru. Regardless of SSJ4's likely superior Ki control, GT has Accelerated Development, Reactive Power Level, Ki absorption, Reactive Evolution, low Regen, and considerably more experience and much better techniques
 
He may have other techniques & possible higher forms thus UI Goku is ignorant to Goku 4's latent abilities. Also that limit break isn't another form. That's just Saiyans fueling Goku with more than 100% energy he normally has. Once that energy gone that's it. Also that's kinda cheating.

Goku can grab the other from behind thanks to Instantaneous Movement & dual self destruct with both their powers.

Goku can use Kaioken as well to help out. Super Saiyan Goku let's Freeza power up so I mean....

No statements directly say he was using God Ki in UI nor hint at such.
 
The gap between UI goku and FPSS4 is huge. Take a look at the chou jiren vs ss4 gogeta thread. It was originally ss4 goku but it was decided that jiren would one shot goku so they changed it to gogeta.


When was him mastering super saiyan 3 stated and how would that imply perfect Ki control? There also hasn't been any statements of 4 having "Perfect" Ki control.

Chou goku also has accelerated development and reactive power level. Chou doesn't have any techniques that he needs to evolve against. Low regen is not a factor since he would be on top when going against CSSB as LBSS4 and would get one shot when going against UI. More experience? Not really. Chou goku has gotten a new teacher, fought Beerus who is above omega Shenron, learned how to fight a guy who can stop time, received more zenkias in the goku black saga than GT goku did in the entire series, learned how to keep his Ki from leaking out of his body (which SS4 does not do, easy to tell it has an aura) and learned how to fight with multiple comparable people at once and still conserve his stamina. The only technique Chou goku doesn't have is the dragon fist and the hakia could be argued to be better.
 
SSJ100000000000 said:
He may have other techniques & possible higher forms thus UI Goku is ignorant to Goku 4's latent abilities. Also that limit break isn't another form. That's just Saiyans fueling Goku with more than 100% energy he normally has. Once that energy gone that's it. Also that's kinda cheating.

Goku can grab the other from behind thanks to Instantaneous Movement & dual self destruct with both their powers.

Goku can use Kaioken as well to help out. Super Saiyan Goku let's Freeza power up so I mean....

No statements directly say he was using God Ki in UI nor hint at such.
Click to expand...
No, we do not use hypothetical transformations. Limit Broken Super Saiyan 4 is GT goku's final form. He let Frieza power up only after beating the shit out of him and Frieza actually a higher power GT goku at this point does not.

When you say instantaneous movement, you mean instant transmission right?

There is no proof that he is using god Ki nor is there any proof that he isn't, we can't assume either or.
 
>Teleportation as argument

Assuming Chouku doesn't use this but GTku does is as likely as happening the opposite.

GTku can't hold any edge in power here. Even CSSB is above him in the food chain, and UI is so above it hurts. Chouku would blitz GTku no matter what. The argument of Goku dragging fights out isn't existent in Chou, where Goku always tries to get rid of the opponent as soon as possible. This argument is so idiotic, outdated and wrong.

I also remember no instance where GTku absorbed Ki from an enemy rather than being helped from his friends and family to reach the peak of SSJ4 (which for starters makes no sense that 4 SSJ1 could give a significant boost to a SSJ4 >_>).

GTku let Syn become Omega, and even feeded S17 with more ki before he realized the absorption gimmick (even when he had the same experience against A19 >_>).

GTku has never used the Kaio-Ken either. Assuming he'd because of BS Ki Control gives the opportunity to Chouku to also use it because of the same reason. Especially when UI goes over the mastery of body over mind, not wasting any movement and by extension, energy.

More experience is moot. He has a few years training with Uub and most fights stomping people. Chouku, albeit younger, has better experience by dealing with different opponnts, having to learn different fghting styles and becoming more self-aware.

Low Regen is shit here. It wouldn't prevent the inevitable one-shot.
 
I'd say LBSS4 would hold a bit of an edge because at the moment he is listed as baseline 3-A while CSBB goku is 3-B that is a hair away from being 3-A. Of corse that's just going of the how they are rated currently, I am aware that Chou might be getting his 3-B stats revisited. The only way a can see GT Goku winning is if he uses his dragon fist 10x kahmehameha as soon as he goes Limit broken, but that would be out of character.
 
No, we do not use hypothetical transformations. Limit Broken Super Saiyan 4 is GT goku's final form. He let Frieza power up only after beating the shit out of him and Frieza actually a higher power GT goku at this point does not.

When you say instantaneous movement, you mean instant transmission right?

There is no proof that he is using god Ki nor is there any proof that he isn't, we can't assume either or.

That's not a form. A form requires a change. Extra stamina is not a new form. Still Goku letting another person power up either way.

That is the Japanese terminology. Instant Transmission is a dub thing iirc.

Right so there is no proof he is using God Ki as UI. He goes from Base to UI. No proof he activated Perfect Ki Control. Hell it's not even required for UI based on how the franchise describes it.
 
The Calaca said:
>Teleportation as argument

Assuming Chouku doesn't use this but GTku does is as likely as happening the opposite.

GTku can't hold any edge in power here. Even CSSB is above him in the food chain, and UI is so above it hurts. Chouku would blitz GTku no matter what. The argument of Goku dragging fights out isn't existent in Chou, where Goku always tries to get rid of the opponent as soon as possible. This argument is so idiotic, outdated and wrong.

I also remember no instance where GTku absorbed Ki from an enemy rather than being helped from his friends and family to reach the peak of SSJ4 (which for starters makes no sense that 4 SSJ1 could give a significant boost to a SSJ4 >_>).

GTku let Syn become Omega, and even feeded S17 with more ki before he realized the absorption gimmick (even when he had the same experience against A19 >_>).

GTku has never used the Kaio-Ken either. Assuming he'd because of BS Ki Control gives the opportunity to Chouku to also use it because of the same reason. Especially when UI goes over the mastery of body over mind, not wasting any movement and by extension, energy.

More experience is moot. He has a few years training with Uub and most fights stomping people. Chouku, albeit younger, has better experience by dealing with different opponnts, having to learn different fghting styles and becoming more self-aware.

Low Regen is shit here. It wouldn't prevent the inevitable one-shot.
Click to expand...
If this was true then by your logic he'd blitz fodders in the T.O.P.

He was reenergized to 100% while still damaged & took even more damage afterwards. He was able to still absorb the Shoki, Yoki, & Genki of BILLIONS of people at once. That's a pretty insane absorption feat. He did this well with in normal stamina ranges.

Eh you're right but Chou still let Freeza go 100% & did not finish off Buu & let Dabura go. He's not really the kill immediately type either. Kinda dumb plot tbh.

He didn't realize he was absorbing Ki. He only realized this when he was taking his attacks on purpose & noticed a buff in his muscles. 19 was doing it by hand & had to only absorb by hand. 17 can likely do the same but he assumes the T Pose & takes in the attacks. That's why he didn't notice in time; 17 was committed to a different absorption stance.

If you're using ULTRA Full Power Super Saiyan 4 Goku then he should have no problem with slapping it on as his body has energy of 4 Saiyans to burn off for the duration. That's my reason. If Chou does it then PSSGSS would have a lot of strain on his body thus when he burns out a Warp ×100 Kamehameha Wave(×10 & kaioken ×10 together) which would obliterate Goku when powered down into Blue or Base. Hell a Kaioken ×5 is still enough to slap before he uses UI.

From Lood to the Sigma Force to Shadow Dragons & 17 he had to mostly beat them without flexing his muscles most of the time. Quality of experience > quantity of experience. Chou is finished fam.
 
What are you even talking about lmao? Have you even read the manga man? Chou Goku doesn't mess around at all actually. The TOP ended way faster in the manga. Kefla by herself eliminated like 5 Universes or something. These arguments are honestly ridiculous.

UI speed blitzes and one shots.

I definitely agree with @The Calaca and @DTG
 
UI Goku didn't fight against anyone but Jiren. What are you even trying to argue?

Still not absorbing energy not lended to him.

Sans for Freeza, te same applies for GTku since both did that lol.

"Take this energy beam"

"Lol absorbed"

"What the fu- Here I go again! Take another one"

Goku knew that an Android could absorb his energy yet he feeded S17 like a total moron until he noticed.

Still using KK with no evidence I see. Chouku is more likely to use it because of the whole Ki Control thing which we know can be applied, but he wouldn't use it. Although, GTku definitely won't.

Lmao how many fights again? Probably comparable to the amount Chouku had at the time of the TOP, and by learning different approaches in a fight istead of going 4 and spamming ki blasts/waves.

Your scaling is terribly wrong but you already know that.
 
Not to mention Chou Goku's enemies were far more Tricky and had better abilities. Beerus and all his techniques and powers, Hit and his Time Skip which Goku had to learn how to counter, Zamasu(who was basically Goku but with Kaioshin powers and Godly Regen), and Jiren(The Strongest fighter in DB History) etc etc..... He had to adapt to different fighting styles and abilities, while in GT it was more of the same really. Syn's Regenerationn isn't even better than Cell let alone Buu. So other than that it was just same old Ki blasts and basic attacks. Chou Goku is way more skilled.

And GTku's(sorry @Calaca too convenient not to steal lol) reactivate evolution won't do much of anything because the application we saw was him adapting to ice lol, so that won't help here against an opponent who's so much more powerful. And of course Chouku has Reactive Power Level as well and can adapt to Much more potent abilities such as Time Stop, and can copy much much more complex and powerful abilities such as Hakai( Possibly without seeing it lol)
 
Stolen from Calaca for future use
 
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