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Kaguya's ETSB missed powers addition.

1,127
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ETSB should have Void Manipulation and Space-Time Manipulation addited to its powers.

First off,lets start with DB description of technique,I'll post 2 translations and a raw:

It is listed as a Kekkei Mōra, Ninjutsu. It says that she used the Divine Tree to absorb Chakra from all of the Shinobi and create a maximized (µÑÁÕñºÕîû) Truthseeker Orb. The equivalent (ÕÉîÒüÿþë®ÒüáÒüî, same/identical/similar) black orbs that appear behind Naruto's back when using Six Paths Sage Mode can't be compared to its dimensions. Comprised of all five elements and yin-yang, it had the power to obliterate the world and return it to nothing. Ôåæ Caption: Comprised of all Chakra natures, a vast, expanding mass is filled to the brim.Created to reshape the world, it was a huge mass of chaos.

The second translation.

Original raw sca .

Why Space-Time Manipulation?Thats most simple,its already a common knowleadge that ETSB can create Dimensions,Kaguya supposedly created 5 Different Dimensions which she refers to as her own Space-Times/Dimensions,it can create Space-Time as stated by Zetsu,after destroying the previous one of course.

Why Void Manipulation?First,as stated in DB it can turn the world into nothing.Second,as stated by Black Zetsu ETSB is a start of a new Space-Time,but you can't create a new Space-Time in a place that already has both Space and Time.therefore it doesn't destroy the Dimension just on Molecluar Lvl,it destroys the Space-Time then creates a new one.

Why isn't Void Manipulation controversal?Thats because its already established that ETSB can affect Space-Time,and Void Manipulation is turning Space Time and Matter into nothing,all this is listed in its page.

Some of you might bring Jinto into this conversation beacuse TSB was compared to it but keep in mind that TSB is something that is beyond the level of Jinton,even the statement that compares TSB with Jinton clearly says that its superior.First off,Jinton desintegrates on Molecular Level (Possibly Atomic) and is the combination of only three elements,Earth/Wind/Fire releases.

TSB on the other hand is the combination of All Elements including Yin-Yang Release.

Yin release uses users imaginatio to create things from nothing.Yang release uses physical energy and life energy.The combination of both elements is the basis for Creation of All Things from Hagoromo and Izanagi,both of which are Reality Warping techniques and accepted as such in this wiki.The TSB that hit Hiruzen which he compared to Jinton didn't have Yin-Yang Release infused with it,Obito used Yin-Yang only when he took control over Juubi.So,assuming that ETSB can do such things and even better isn't wrong,since we already have evidence of Space-Time Manipulation.

ETSB also falls under Pocket Reality Manipulation since Yin-Yang Shenanigans.

So,comparing Jinton to TSB let alone to ETSB which is explicitly stated to create Space-Time in sense of downplaying it is plain wrong and shouldn't even be considered valid.
 
ETSB and TSB literally are the same thing exluding size

quote from DB

  • The equivalent (ÕÉîÒüÿþë®ÒüáÒüî, same/identical/similar) black orbs that appear behind Naruto's back when using Six Paths Sage Mode can't be compared to its dimensions.
from manga
0689-ss006.png


TSB hax= ETSB hax excluding size/dimensions

e.g similar to how normal rasengan = Ultra-Big Ball Rasengan are same things excluding size/ dimensions

TSB/ ETSB has 3 statement which grant them EE & Void Manipulation

1.Tobira: If we teleport behind him carelessly, we might get erased

Sdadwdwf


2.Minato:whatever point they touch disappears
S-6841-497877-10


3. last but not least

quote from DB

  • it had the power to obliterate the world and return it to nothing
All this evidence suggest that TSB/ ETSB has EE & Void Manipulation
 
Void manipulation is just wrong, space time doesn't matter, she never demonstrate the ability to manipulate the nothingness and the no existence. Also existence erasure is wrong since the erasure is referred to the negation of the edo tensei.

At least put some context behind your images
 
Void manipulation is just wrong, space time doesn't matter, she never demonstrate the ability to manipulate the nothingness

  • wiki does accept statement
  • so she dont have to demonstrate to have Void manipulation
Also existence erasure is wrong since the erasure is referred to the negation of the edo tensei.

  • no cuz he was talking about both him and naruto would get erased
  • he and naruto was fighting him when tobirama made this statement
    Dfsdfafa
 
@Lovtop

How does Space-Time not matter,erasing Space-Time is a part of Void Manipulation.

At least put some context behind your images

I did?
 
There are no statements of her that qualify for void And naruto at that point doesn't had six path chakra so he can't resist matter manipulation while tobirama is an edo.
 
An additional point I just thought of is that TSB have Regenerationn negation or at least power nulls Regenerationn.

I say this because of what obito and Madara did to Minato's arms usjng TSB. His arms could not be regenerated at all after being "erased". And Naruto got limited Regenerationn negation for simply slowing down the Regenerationn of edo tensei, not even completely nulling it like the TSB.

So I believe there's some legitimacy to this.

And I agree with the op and Omimi.
 
@Lavtop

What are you talking about?Are you referring to the OP or things that Omimi posted?

This thread is about ETSB not TSB.
 
Slacjow said:
What are you talking about?Are you referring to the OP or things that Omimi posted?

This thread is about ETSB not TSB.
I was just saying that in addition to the abilities you posted for the ETSB, regular TSB and by extension ETSB also possess Regenerationn negation or something similar.
 
She already has Space Time Manipulation on her page so I don't know why that is being brought up. We already had a multiple threads talking about void manipulation and I don't remember the conclusion. I think possible Void Manipulation with ETSB was accepted.

And no, we already had a discussion about normal TSB and they negated the ninjutsu (Edo Tenshi), not Regenerationn. We had a big thread on this already.
 
If it was accepted it would've been added to her page

She has Space-Time Manipulation but without any explanation,it should be noted that lts via ETSB.
 
Nothing was concluded,people were still comparing ETSB to Molecular Level Jinton which doesn't make sense as I said in the OP.
 
matter manipulation does not make things disappears,erase and return it to nothing

DB statement support void manipulation
 
I don't think Void Manipulation is something really good.

In the same Databook, it is clearly said that ETSO is just a TSO, with a giant size.
TSBs themselves are compared to Onoki's Jinton in efficiency, although they are probably better, thanks to having all the nature elements + Yin/Yang elements in their composition.

The statement also sounds like a flowery language, like when a movie villain says "it will end the world".

In general, it is at most a possibility to be considered, which also seems to me to be too doubtful.
 
@MostPowerfull

I explained why the compraison with Jinton is wrong,there are links for Yin-Yang too,check them.

Of course "Return to nothing" alone sounds like flowery language,but there is Space-Time Manipulation and Reality Warping powers involved in this and I think I brought enough evidence to assume that this exact case isn't just flowery language.

And what Astral said,if we go by this everyone should get Dimensional Creation/Space-Time Creation via normal TSB.
 
Having a skill that involves creation and so on is not enough to support a completely different kind of skill.

This is completely a fallacy of the Association.

ETSO is similar in aspects, but it also has its particularities. It is the only TSB said to create Space-Times, precisely because it has a much greater power. It's like saying that everyone who uses Raiton can use Kirin, because it is Raiton.
 
MostPowerfull said:
Having a skill that involves creation and so on is not enough to support a completely different kind of skill.

This is completely a fallacy of the Association.

ETSO is similar in aspects, but it also has its particularities. It is the only TSB said to create Space-Times, precisely because it has a much greater power. It's like saying that everyone who uses Raiton can use Kirin, because it is Raiton.
The kirin comparison doesn't really make sense because unlike Raiton in general and Kirin, ETSB and TSB are pretty much the same jutsu with the only difference between them being the scope and power of the technique. ETSB maybe a bit different but they're both fundamentally the same jutsu.
 
@MostPowerfull

Having a skill that involves creation and so on is not enough to support a completely different kind of skill.

Except in this case it is not,the combination of Yin-Yang in Naruto is literally Reality Warping and nothing else.Do you think its is coincidence that literally all techniques that operate with Yin-Yang affect Reality in one way or another?

Izanagi,jutsu that changes Reality,it is created using Yin-Yang realese only,Creation of All Things from Hagoromo that is stated to be superior to Izanagi is created with Yin-Yang only.ETSB is the technique that is stated to be able to create Space and Time and to turn Dimensions into nothing,also has Yin-Yang realease in it.

Is it really that hard to believe that the technique that can create Space and Time from nothing can also be used to destroy it,even when it is stated that it can turn the world into nothing?

I think this isn't just flowery language anymore.
 
The skills are opposite. One does not prove the other. It needs much more than that, that is what I meant.

Izanagi is a RW Limited. Banbutsu Souzo was shown only to create bodies of the Bijuus, using imagination.
Creating anything does not prove anything about the opposite extreme of that ability.

You need more evidence than saying that it creates, so you should be able to erase it.
 
@Slayer

Kirin is still a Raiton.

"ETSB maybe a bit different but they're both fundamentally the same jutsu.."

The difference is that it is declared to recreate a new space-time.
 
But don't get me wrong. As I said, I can agree on a "possible", as I said other times when it was brought up.

But the skill itself needs more than the one presented.
 
There is is even a direct comparison between it and Onoki's jutsu.

  • this TSB was without yin-yang release so they are not same
  • why are are u keep talking about TSB when OP asking to stop talking about TSB

ETSB has many ability and matter manipulation is only one of them

we are talking about DB information wich support void manipulation

just talk about ETSB
 
@Sigurd

Well,yeah,TSB isn't Void Manipulation,ETSB is.

@MostPowerfull

Creatoin of All Things is still RW since Izanagi is basically a much worse version of it,he didn't only create the bodies of Beasts,he created these too.

Creating anything does not prove anything about the opposite extreme of that ability.

Yeah,it doesn't but in this case we have other evidence.

1.It has a statememnt of turning worlds into nothing.

2.It has fundamentals of Reality Warping abilities.

3.Zetsu's statememnt about creating a whole new Space-Time,that Dimension already had both Space and Time,you shouldn't be able to create a Space-Time there logically,so given every peace of information we've already gathered we can assume that it first erases Space and Time and then creates a new ones.

Agree: MostPowerfull (Possibly), LordGriffin1000 (Possibly)?, Omimi, Rocker1189, UchihaSlayer96.

Disagree: -

I haven't counted Astral,Lavtop and Sigurd yet since they didn't make it clear what they vote for.Would've been great to have some staff input in here.
 
@Sigurd

The thread you posted doesn't even have half the information my thread provides.
 
Yeah,both threads are about ETSB,my thread has more than just the DB description of the attack.I tried to gather all info I could and summed it under one OP so everybody could read it and give opinions.

So,I would appreciate if you stop comparing the threads and give your answer.If you disagree I would appreciate reasons.
 
This thread is using the same scans and reasonings as this previous thread (not the same thread that Sigurd linked).

Void manipulation and time/space manipulation weren't accepted; however, pocket dimension manipulation was being agreed upon before it died down.
 
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