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Kaguya's ETSB missed powers addition.
- Thread starter Slacjow
- Start date
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The statement "return the world to nothing" is not enough to give Void manipulationSlacjow said:
I kinda agree toward space-time manipulation(limited of course) tho i am not 100% sure
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Sakura was hit by Madara's TSB which do have Yin and Yang (erased Minato's other arm).Slacjow said:
She was stabbed by it and it still didn't carve her up (she was stabbed in the air, so if the TSB had any of it's properties then Sakura should've been nearly bifurcated from her weight pulling her down on a molecular/EE blade according to you).
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@IMade
Em,what?Madara did a hole in her,she regenerated,thats it.What does Minato's arm have to do with this?
@Xehanort1307
The statement isn't enough thats why the whole OP is the support for it,read it.
Space Time Manipulation isn't limited,its normal Space-Time Manipulation for creating Space and Time,but she has it already so we'll just add description to it.
Em,what?Madara did a hole in her,she regenerated,thats it.What does Minato's arm have to do with this?
@Xehanort1307
The statement isn't enough thats why the whole OP is the support for it,read it.
Space Time Manipulation isn't limited,its normal Space-Time Manipulation for creating Space and Time,but she has it already so we'll just add description to it.
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MostPowerfull said:
I do not think there is damage
The TSO should have erased the jacket on contact since it was compared to Particle style,actually it was said to be stronger
But nothing happened
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@Xeha
I believe that the visible is the third panel.
If you approach, you will see a small cap around the sphere.
Although, I can't tell if it's a shadow (although it definitely doesn't seem to be) or real damage.
I believe that the visible is the third panel.
If you approach, you will see a small cap around the sphere.
Although, I can't tell if it's a shadow (although it definitely doesn't seem to be) or real damage.
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Then they should have completely atomize the jacketSlacjow said:
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I always thought it erases only on the point of contact, doesn't spread further than that I believe, but I could be wrong..
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@Xeha
Wait. TSB does not atomize everything in a chain reaction. The one who does this is Kaguya's Ash Bones.
It just disintegrates what it touches.
At most, he would make holes in the jacket, but it seems that he stopped moving before that.
Wait. TSB does not atomize everything in a chain reaction. The one who does this is Kaguya's Ash Bones.
It just disintegrates what it touches.
At most, he would make holes in the jacket, but it seems that he stopped moving before that.
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My opinion remains the same. Returning the world to nothing fits perfectly okay with destroying the matter and leaving just empty space.
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Xehanort1307 said:MostPowerfull said:
I do not think there is damage
The TSO should have erased the jacket on contact since it was compared to Particle style,actually it was said to be stronger
But nothing happened
u sure nothing happened
@Sigurd Snake in The Eye > Ichigo doesn't have EE Omimi
than what is this
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1720339#290
whole crt was agreed cuz it was accpeted that Mugetsu erases aizen
if u still deny than i have to creat crt or ask matt about it
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3382784#25
even Elizhaa said this
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uhmm dindt they say that if they keep the TSO from madara away he cant use their power?? so it makes sense why TSO's powers dindt workXehanort1307 said:MostPowerfull said:
I do not think there is damage
The TSO should have erased the jacket on contact since it was compared to Particle style,actually it was said to be stronger
But nothing happened
This goes for Kaguya as well.
kaguya got sealed her ETSB started to disappear. (see the black thing in the pic left)
Meaning she needs to stay control in her dimension so that ETSB can work, without escaping.
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This is literally nit picking. Returning the world to nothing. U acknowledged that. But u don't acknowledge the fact that it's stated a new space time is being created. Nani???? What? NitpickingLSirLancelotDuLacl said:
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Everything is nit picking at this point, which is bullshit. If you really think "return to nothing" has to refer to turning stuff into literal void, despite the attack doing nothing more than erasing physical matter, you can die on that nonsensical hill.
Yeh, time space is how Zetsu refers to the individual locales Kaguya has access to. I have really failed to see the point of something obvious.
Yeh, time space is how Zetsu refers to the individual locales Kaguya has access to. I have really failed to see the point of something obvious.
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ETSB and TSB should be Erasure Existence but only Void Manipulation for ETSB.
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Okay but why, under what reasons?
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I still disagree with Existence Erasure and Void Manipulation, I don't see conclusive evidence to support the notions. It could easily be as Lancelot described:
"If you really think "return to nothing" has to refer to turning stuff into literal void, despite the attack doing nothing more than erasing physical matter, you can die on that nonsensical hill.
Yeh, time space is how Zetsu refers to the individual locales Kaguya has access to. I have really failed to see the point of something obvious."
"If you really think "return to nothing" has to refer to turning stuff into literal void, despite the attack doing nothing more than erasing physical matter, you can die on that nonsensical hill.
Yeh, time space is how Zetsu refers to the individual locales Kaguya has access to. I have really failed to see the point of something obvious."
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I going to disagree as well. I apologize if I missed something important, I am very tired.
"return it to nothing" doesn't instantly mean void manipulation. It is also called "a huge mass of chaos" in the description, and if you check our Chaos Manipulation page it says it is different from "Nothingness". Chaos is usually a reference to "destruction" and on the Chaos Manipulation page it even talks about the destruction of space and time. So the databook is calling the ETSB "a huge mass of destruction".
Without anything backing this up, the statement isn't enough given how it's worded. If a character stated "This next attack will turn you to nothing" and fired a beam that completely covered the other character and when the attack ended, nothing was left. We would not assume he erased him, just that he destroyed him do to not having any other evidence or context. When dealing with powerful abilities like Existence Erasure and Void Manipulation, solid statments are needed like "This attack erases anything it touches from existence" or "This move reduces anything it touches to pure nothingness" and then feats from the attack are needed to back it up to be absolutly sure.
I also checked the second translation you linked in the OP and it doesn't help either.
"Taking in all chakra natures and yin and yang at once, it hides within the power to let the world come to naught....!!"
"Taking in all natures of chakra, it grows into an enormous mass. A huge ball of chaos that even reshapes the world!"
This just means it has the power to end the world and make a new one. Nothing about Void Manipulation in it.
Also before anyone says "But the creator said it". Word of God doesn't mean much of anything without support given. Writers have been wrong about their own works many of times which is why I didn't bother to make a thread about Black Hole Creation for Danny Phantom ghosts.
"return it to nothing" doesn't instantly mean void manipulation. It is also called "a huge mass of chaos" in the description, and if you check our Chaos Manipulation page it says it is different from "Nothingness". Chaos is usually a reference to "destruction" and on the Chaos Manipulation page it even talks about the destruction of space and time. So the databook is calling the ETSB "a huge mass of destruction".
Without anything backing this up, the statement isn't enough given how it's worded. If a character stated "This next attack will turn you to nothing" and fired a beam that completely covered the other character and when the attack ended, nothing was left. We would not assume he erased him, just that he destroyed him do to not having any other evidence or context. When dealing with powerful abilities like Existence Erasure and Void Manipulation, solid statments are needed like "This attack erases anything it touches from existence" or "This move reduces anything it touches to pure nothingness" and then feats from the attack are needed to back it up to be absolutly sure.
I also checked the second translation you linked in the OP and it doesn't help either.
"Taking in all chakra natures and yin and yang at once, it hides within the power to let the world come to naught....!!"
"Taking in all natures of chakra, it grows into an enormous mass. A huge ball of chaos that even reshapes the world!"
This just means it has the power to end the world and make a new one. Nothing about Void Manipulation in it.
Also before anyone says "But the creator said it". Word of God doesn't mean much of anything without support given. Writers have been wrong about their own works many of times which is why I didn't bother to make a thread about Black Hole Creation for Danny Phantom ghosts.
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- Thread starter
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@LordGriffin
Chaos is usually a reference to "destruction" and on the Chaos Manipulation page it even talks about the destruction of space and time. So the databook is calling the ETSB "a huge mass of destruction".
Destruction of Space and Time is Void Manipulatoin as well.So,going by your interpretation we have two statements."Return to Nothing" and "Chaos Manipulaton" which is also destruction of space and time.
Without anything backing this up, the statement isn't enough given how it's worded
The fact that ETSB can manipulate and create Space and Time is backing it up,the fact that it can manipulate Reality is backing it up,the fact that she was going to create a Space and Time in a place with Space and Time is backing it up,because for that she would have to destroy the current Space and Time and ETSB works by destroying first and creating second,I explained in the OP.
I think we have pretty solid eveidence for Void Manipulation EE,honestly the fact that it can create Space and TIme from nothing+the Databook Statement of "Returning it to nothing" is already enough proof for Void Manipulation.
Chaos is usually a reference to "destruction" and on the Chaos Manipulation page it even talks about the destruction of space and time. So the databook is calling the ETSB "a huge mass of destruction".
Destruction of Space and Time is Void Manipulatoin as well.So,going by your interpretation we have two statements."Return to Nothing" and "Chaos Manipulaton" which is also destruction of space and time.
Without anything backing this up, the statement isn't enough given how it's worded
The fact that ETSB can manipulate and create Space and Time is backing it up,the fact that it can manipulate Reality is backing it up,the fact that she was going to create a Space and Time in a place with Space and Time is backing it up,because for that she would have to destroy the current Space and Time and ETSB works by destroying first and creating second,I explained in the OP.
I think we have pretty solid eveidence for Void Manipulation EE,honestly the fact that it can create Space and TIme from nothing+the Databook Statement of "Returning it to nothing" is already enough proof for Void Manipulation.
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You are taking those words way too literally. There are no feats on the level that warrants those powers.
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I agree with Slacjow. Even Ichigo's EE was based on statements, which was the basis for Aizen's low-Godly regen.
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Ichigo doesn't have EE nor Void Manipulation, who's is feeding y'all this information lol
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Aizen has low godly regen because it was accepted that due to Ichigo supposedly using his quincy powers in Mugetsu he completely erased aizen.Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
It's in the old thread linked above I believe
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Quincy doesn't have EE, they have soul destruction. Aizen is a spiritual being so it's kind of like that but it's not EE nor Void Manipulation.
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I'm not arguing against you I'm just saying that's what that particular thread agreed on and is the basis for low-godly regen(at least according to that particular thread)
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That part was wrong, and your reading the outdated thread. A bunch of Aizen regen threads were made and I recall Imade clearing the EE thing up. If Mugetsu could also erase along side it's soul destruction then Aizen would have Mid-Godly, not low-godly. And for the record I agree completely with the against side, I see nothing aside from statements that are iffy.
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@Slacjow
Destruction of Space and Time is Void Manipulatoin as well.So,going by your interpretation we have two statements."Return to Nothing" and "Chaos Manipulaton" which is also destruction of space and time.
No. The destruction of space and time is not void manipulation and I literally linked Chaos Manipulation which states it is different from Void Manipulation.
Destruction of Time and Space =/= Erasing Time and Space. Otherwise you are saying all Low 2-C characters have Void Manipulation because they are strong enough to destroy time and space. Hell this would give any character who destroyed a pocket dimension Void Manipulation. "Destruction" and "Erasing" are two different things and since it is call "a huge mass of chaos", that means it is a huge mass of destruction. I can easily say Kaguya has Chaos Manipulation given the ETSB description and what it does.
The fact that ETSB can manipulate and create Space and Time is backing it up,the fact that it can manipulate Reality is backing it up,the fact that she was going to create a Space and Time in a place with Space and Time is backing it up,because for that she would have to destroy the current Space and Time and ETSB works by destroying first and creating second,I explained in the OP.
I think we have pretty solid eveidence for Void Manipulation EE,honestly the fact that it can create Space and TIme from nothing+the Databook Statement of "Returning it to nothing" is already enough proof for Void Manipulation.
Again, destroying space and time does not mean erasing it. Her creating a new time and space just mean that she crated a new time and space after the other one was destroyed. I'm going to say it one more time, destroying time and space does not mean you have void manipulation unless it is stated and sorry to say but "return it to nothing" is not enough evidence for Void Manipulation.
That statement can easily mean destroying it. Writers do things like this all the time and it is known as flowery language. So no "return it to nothing" is in no way enough evidence and your entire argument is based around it and this strange notion that "destruction" of Space and Time 100% means Void Manipulation. If that is the case, countless characters need Void Manipulation.
Destruction of Space and Time is Void Manipulatoin as well.So,going by your interpretation we have two statements."Return to Nothing" and "Chaos Manipulaton" which is also destruction of space and time.
No. The destruction of space and time is not void manipulation and I literally linked Chaos Manipulation which states it is different from Void Manipulation.
Destruction of Time and Space =/= Erasing Time and Space. Otherwise you are saying all Low 2-C characters have Void Manipulation because they are strong enough to destroy time and space. Hell this would give any character who destroyed a pocket dimension Void Manipulation. "Destruction" and "Erasing" are two different things and since it is call "a huge mass of chaos", that means it is a huge mass of destruction. I can easily say Kaguya has Chaos Manipulation given the ETSB description and what it does.
The fact that ETSB can manipulate and create Space and Time is backing it up,the fact that it can manipulate Reality is backing it up,the fact that she was going to create a Space and Time in a place with Space and Time is backing it up,because for that she would have to destroy the current Space and Time and ETSB works by destroying first and creating second,I explained in the OP.
I think we have pretty solid eveidence for Void Manipulation EE,honestly the fact that it can create Space and TIme from nothing+the Databook Statement of "Returning it to nothing" is already enough proof for Void Manipulation.
Again, destroying space and time does not mean erasing it. Her creating a new time and space just mean that she crated a new time and space after the other one was destroyed. I'm going to say it one more time, destroying time and space does not mean you have void manipulation unless it is stated and sorry to say but "return it to nothing" is not enough evidence for Void Manipulation.
That statement can easily mean destroying it. Writers do things like this all the time and it is known as flowery language. So no "return it to nothing" is in no way enough evidence and your entire argument is based around it and this strange notion that "destruction" of Space and Time 100% means Void Manipulation. If that is the case, countless characters need Void Manipulation.
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Aernasilver said:
We literally got the calc and feat on bier profile.
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@Lord
I think I made it pretty clear that I meant "Erasing" it completely,I just used different word for it but the context of this conversation made it clear that I meant Erasing,because I already referenced in the OP our Void Manipulatoin page.You are just nitpicking at this point.
I mean,why did you even think I meant something different other than erasing if I am advocating for Void Manipulation,which I linked in the OP and which I have read,which states the erasure of Space and Time.I literally used the different word,thats it.From this point onwards keep in mind that I meant "Erasing" I might use the word "Destruction" again.
You whole argument was based on me using the word "Destruction".The statement says "Return the world to nothing" not "Destroy the world"
Are you proposing Chaos Manipulatoin or what?
I think I made it pretty clear that I meant "Erasing" it completely,I just used different word for it but the context of this conversation made it clear that I meant Erasing,because I already referenced in the OP our Void Manipulatoin page.You are just nitpicking at this point.
I mean,why did you even think I meant something different other than erasing if I am advocating for Void Manipulation,which I linked in the OP and which I have read,which states the erasure of Space and Time.I literally used the different word,thats it.From this point onwards keep in mind that I meant "Erasing" I might use the word "Destruction" again.
You whole argument was based on me using the word "Destruction".The statement says "Return the world to nothing" not "Destroy the world"
Are you proposing Chaos Manipulatoin or what?
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LordGriffin1000 wrote:
"return it to nothing" doesn't instantly mean void manipulation. It is also called "a huge mass of chaos" in the description, and if you check our Chaos Manipulation page it says it is different from "Nothingness". Chaos is usually a reference to "destruction" and on the Chaos Manipulation page it even talks about the destruction of space and time. So the databook is calling the ETSB "a huge mass of destruction".
"return it to nothing" doesn't instantly mean void manipulation. It is also called "a huge mass of chaos" in the description, and if you check our Chaos Manipulation page it says it is different from "Nothingness". Chaos is usually a reference to "destruction" and on the Chaos Manipulation page it even talks about the destruction of space and time. So the databook is calling the ETSB "a huge mass of destruction".
- than she also get Chaos Manipulation?
- Did u red my post above ? probably not otherwise u woudnt said this
- TSB/ ETSB has 3 statement including this(return it to nothing) which grant them either EE or Void Manipulation
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No, she doesn't. She showed no power over disharmony and confusion or whatever, just fused a lot of energies together. And those 3 statements are?
I am sorry SLac, but no, that's not the intent I got from your words so I would just say you wrote that confusingly. It is still no Void, there's no Void being manipulated. And there's no EE, there's nothing ever indicating anything beyond being compared to Dust Release.
I am sorry SLac, but no, that's not the intent I got from your words so I would just say you wrote that confusingly. It is still no Void, there's no Void being manipulated. And there's no EE, there's nothing ever indicating anything beyond being compared to Dust Release.
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@Omni
The ETSB can't be Void Manipulation and Chaos Manipulation at the same time. One is pure destruction/chaos, the other is eraser. That was my whole point of brigging it up. Going off flowery language can easily result in what I just did even though it doesn't have any feats of Chaos Manipulation, just being called a ball of chaos is not enough, just like return it to nothing doesn't instantly mean Void Manipulation without feats.
I read your post but all my replies were directed at Slack. "Return it to Nothing" can mean destroying it, we've been over this, that is not evidence. Minato's statement isn't much either given neither of these two actually know what the Jutsu is as far as I'm aware they are going of what it looks like it's doing. Minato says "disappear"... I can make an example as to why that word doesn't instently give Void Manip or EE but I honestly am to tired for this but I'll explain my point.
Basically, if I blasted someone with an attack that subatomically destroyed a person it touched and all you did was see them vanish. You would think they "disappeard" when the attack touched them. However Tobirama's statment actually says "erase" which can't really mean much else in context of what's happening and he doesn't sound like he's assuming anything.
I honestly don't know. I dislike using statments that could mean different things but I'm not going to stand here and say your 100% wrong, that is why I said such statements don't instently mean. My stance really hasen't changed but this thread is just gonna go back and fourth and I don't know about you guys but I don't want to keep repeating myself. I suggest you guys go ask some staff members for their input. If they agree with EE and Void Manipulation, I won't argue.
This will be my last reply, You guys don't half to respond to this post given I said my stance isn't going to changed. It's best if we just not do the back and fourth. I'll accept whatever happens, peace!.
The ETSB can't be Void Manipulation and Chaos Manipulation at the same time. One is pure destruction/chaos, the other is eraser. That was my whole point of brigging it up. Going off flowery language can easily result in what I just did even though it doesn't have any feats of Chaos Manipulation, just being called a ball of chaos is not enough, just like return it to nothing doesn't instantly mean Void Manipulation without feats.
I read your post but all my replies were directed at Slack. "Return it to Nothing" can mean destroying it, we've been over this, that is not evidence. Minato's statement isn't much either given neither of these two actually know what the Jutsu is as far as I'm aware they are going of what it looks like it's doing. Minato says "disappear"... I can make an example as to why that word doesn't instently give Void Manip or EE but I honestly am to tired for this but I'll explain my point.
Basically, if I blasted someone with an attack that subatomically destroyed a person it touched and all you did was see them vanish. You would think they "disappeard" when the attack touched them. However Tobirama's statment actually says "erase" which can't really mean much else in context of what's happening and he doesn't sound like he's assuming anything.
I honestly don't know. I dislike using statments that could mean different things but I'm not going to stand here and say your 100% wrong, that is why I said such statements don't instently mean. My stance really hasen't changed but this thread is just gonna go back and fourth and I don't know about you guys but I don't want to keep repeating myself. I suggest you guys go ask some staff members for their input. If they agree with EE and Void Manipulation, I won't argue.
This will be my last reply, You guys don't half to respond to this post given I said my stance isn't going to changed. It's best if we just not do the back and fourth. I'll accept whatever happens, peace!.
