@Efi
">"Zero has the edge in almost every category otherwise except for an experience gap"
Quite false, more of that in what you claim of it."
How? He's stronger, likely more broken, more able to fight through things that would finish Yoda, tougher, has abilities to counter almost all of Yoda's with little difficulty, while Yoda's abilities to counter Zero's would greatly drain his stamina (more on that later), and has
more experience fighting people who actually are a threat to him.
"Zero's nothing next to Yoda in terms of skill."
Zero has really only lost one fight (and has otherwise had a few draws) against Vile in his 200 year life span, and while his sword is his primary weapon, he also knows how to use guns, tonfas, whips, staffs, hammers, shields, and has various abilities at his disposal. You can argue Yoda being 5x older might give him the experience edge, but then again, Yoda spent most of that time meditating on the force, while Zero was in war for basically half his life (a little under 100 was spent in stasis). Saying either is "nothing" to the other is a bit of stretch in my opinion. He would outduel the vast, vast majority of the Star Wars verse in a stats equal melee-only fight, even in Legends.
">"His telekinesis can be broken out of"
The f*ck?"
SW TK can be overpowered by people with higher AP last I checked. Shimrra was more powerful than Luke (or at least equal, but could keep up the same power for longer due to his physiology), didn't have TK, but wasn't getting ragdolled by Skywalker during their duel even though Luke was powerful enough to use force abilities against the Vong despite their supposed resistance. Luke didn't try to gain distance and then manhandle him. Therefore it follows a similar outcome would occur here. Not to mention Zero isn't just gonna stand there while Yoda does things, so much like Grievous vs Shaak Ti on Hypori, he might not even have the time to use something like TK if Zero is lashing at him because he's too focused trying to block.
">"Zero has more stamina for a sword fight than Yoda"
Of all the stuff going on SW you point out stamina as a factor? Really? Coming from the same user who just moments before said "Yoda could try to repel it by setting up a force shield" I see that you lack either knowledge or creativity here."
Yoda has stamina issues compared to other force users iirc one, and even if he didn't, he's still limited by physiology, Zero kept going without repairs for a year from Zero 3-4 after beating Copy X and the Guardians who are all not far behind him, as well as some characters who can damage him. Any long, drawn out battle between these two is going to favor Zero. X and Sigma can still funciton somewhat well without an arm. There is no reason Zero couldn't do so as well.
"I lack either knowledge or creativity here".
Okay, well, Zero (in the X Series) has a time stop that is omnidirectional and instant. What the hell else is Yoda exactly supposed to do to counter it other than build as powerful a force shield as he can to protect himself? He can't stop Zero from activating it by interrupting him since it's not something like Chaos Control, if that's what you're thinking. Zero just thinks, and time stands still. Even if Yoda is manhandling him with TK or something like that, if Zero stops time (which also counters the idea of Zero , one of the following two scenarios occur.
Scenario 1: Yoda's control is lost. Zero possibly goes flying, gets back up, runs over to Yoda, and lobs his head off. Yoda loses.
Scenario 2: Yoda is still holding Zero (and for the sake of argument, Zero can't get out of it by force). Zero pulls out a gun and shoots Yoda in, depending on where his lightsaber is, a limb, his head, his chest, or some other place that results in an injury that cripples Yoda, maybe even destroying his lightsaber as well. Yoda cannot block it because he is stopped in time, and is either killed, crippled to the point he dies in the next 5 seconds, or has lost his lightsaber, his only real means of keeping Zero at bay without drawing on his force reserves excessively, and therefore either dies or has to retreat before Zero kills him because his force powers are weakening (tutaminis is one of the more draining force abilities when used against very powerful opponents for a long stretch of time, seeing as Yoda was completely exhausted after using it to repel Palpatine's lightning).
Also, I'd appreciate if you took your accusations of wank and left them at the door. I love both franchises (although I haven't kept up with either one lately if I'm being honest).
@Caleb
Zero's time stop isn't really OoC afaik, considering one boss uses a time stop in character, but setting that aside, his time stops are different in each series. In the X series he can only stop it once before having to recharge it, but it's a universal time stop. In the Zero series, he can spam it as much as he wants but it's projectile based.
But even if it was, he doesn't need it to beat Yoda anyway.
"However, Yoda can use Telekinesis to his advantage, holding Zero in place and then cutting him up with his lightsaber."
That might work, but it wouldn't be an insta-kill the same way Zero's time stop would be, since Zero can take hits from basically the same thing. Yoda isn't gonna be able to pull a Blade Mode from Metal Gear with that. If this is MMZ Zero, he actually has a pretty solid counter to this (and another insta-kill move) with a cyber elf with omnidirectional transmutation (M-orell M-orque, M-oria, etc) that could just turn Yoda's saber into a health item. Maybe even Yoda himself. That, or he could use the phase chip and dodge it by going intangible for a brief period, which he can do indefinitely.
Additionally, it's entirely possible Zero won't just be fighting Yoda 1v1. He can create dragonflies and, briefly, an intangible doppelganger, (MMX) or bring out cyber elves (MMZ) to attack Yoda and back him up, who can damage people who can fight him, although they are rather weak compared to him.
So Yoda will be dealing with that plus Zero hacking and slashing away at him, and assuming this is MMZ Zero (where his time stop is projectile based), Zero's cyber elves do run out, but his weapon and chip energy do not, although they obvious can be broken the same applies to Yoda's lightsaber, and Yoda's force powers
do run out. Sure, Yoda could try to throw one at Zero, but that leaves him open to being attacked by Zero or his dragonflies, and Cyber Elves aren't physical (just made of energy) so could Yoda even touch them? He could use tutaminis but again, that drains him further and also, again, leaves him open to attack either from another one of Zero's items. He could also try an omnidirectional force blast, but I'm pretty sure he needs a second to charge it up.
For the sake of argument, let's go through some of Palpatine's abilities that I think most of us would agree Yoda should have most of what Palpatine may have. I'll be cutting through the ones Yoda
definitely doesn't have (like immortality type 6 obviously), dark side powers, and powers that just don't matter, like martial arts and superhuman characteristics, or powers that really wouldn't come into play, like mind manip or aura sensing.
Stealth Mastery: Zero has fought people with stealth before, like Phoenix Magnion and Phantom. Didn't stop him from winning.
Precognition: Lets him know when certain powers are coming maybe, sure. Does not let him predict exactly when a chop to the head will come though.
Telekinesis: Won't really help him in any of the ways described above since they are counterable by his opponent. As for just throwing objects at Zero, Zero can just chope them up, blast them to pieces, dodge them, etc
Forcefield Creation: Lets him possibly tank a time stop without dying, but he'd have to put a LOT of force energy into it before Zero basically just thinks.
Mind Manipulation/
Memory Manipulation: Usually a SW gamebreaker. Not gonna work here though.
Energy Manipulation (Can reflect, redirect, and absorb energy attacks Via Tutaminis): One of the best moves he has against Zero, and also one of his most draining.
Healing: Cannot heal sufficiently fatal wounds.
Matter Manipulation (Sub-Atomic, Able to create a Holocron, which requires one to make numerous
precision alterations to it on a subatomic scale, as well as create and manipulate weapons on a molecular level, though this is not combat applicable. Through Art of the Small he can directly manipulate things on a molecular level, compress things on a molecular level with Dimension Shift, and vibrate molecules to create fire with Pyrokinesis): While all of that is well and good, I don't think it's gonna net him a win, it's just not effective enough and Zero can resist things like Crystal Hunter and attacks from Cyber Elves trying to kill him.
Air Manipulation (Via Alter Environment, Adiabatic Shield, and Force Whirlwind): Might stun Zero ala KOTOR, but he could still get out of that.
Weather Manipulation (Via Alter Environment and Summon Storm)
Heat Manipulation (Via Alter Environment, Tapas, Convection, and Cryomancy): Zero is resistant to absolute zero and star-level temperatures iirc (or earth core level? I forget admittedly). Either way, it's not gonna cut it.
Non-Physical Interaction: Lets him hit Cyber Elves, but it doesn't mean they aren't a threat to him.
Light Manipulation (Via Force Blinding and Force Flash): Not sure if this would even work, honestly. Zero's optical abilities are much better than a typical organic.
Power Nullification (Via Force Light, Sever Force, and Dampen Force): Only works on other force users when sealing away force powers, like with Ulic-Qel Droma. Won't come into play here.
Paralysis Inducement (Via Force Stun): Zero isn't organic, not gonna work.
Willpower Manipulation (Via Force of Will, Battle Meditation, Crush Opposition, and Malicious Fury): This is a little tricky admitttedly, but I doubt it'd work. Zero's power doesn't come from his willpower or desire to do what he believes, just his desire to protect those he loves and believes in, and that is not gonna falter.
Sound Manipulation (Via Sound Mimicry, Force Bellow, and Force Scream): Has never come into play in any SW as far as I know.
Morality Manipulation: Zero is more or less true neutral. Maybe heroic neutral. Any circumstance that involves the two fighting is unlikely as is, and only gets more likely if Zero's morality is shifted to being evil. In character Zero wouldn't really find a reason to fight Yoda.
Time Travel (Via Time-Drifting): Palpatine and Yoda have never used this. No reason to believe Yoda is gonna go back in time and murder Wily or something like that.
Technology Manipulation (Via Technometry, Electronic Manipulation, Mechu-Deru, and Mechu-Deru Vitae): This gives Yoda superhuman engineering skills, not technopathy. Not gonna work here.
Illusion Creation (Via Alter Mind, Dreamscape, Force Illusion, Masquerade, Dark Illusion, and Mindform): Wouldn't work since Zero wouldn't even see the illusions because he's not organic.
Explosion Manipulation (Via Combustion, Force Bomb, and Force Burst): Could work, but since Zero's AP is higher, he can't just do this.
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploads/original/11120/111201000/4811594-unnamed.jpg
Attack Reflection (Via Force Deflection), energy absorption and projection: Tutaminis, very useful here, but again, highly draining on Yoda compared to many of his abilities.
There's a few more, but I'm tired for the night so I'm gonna stop here. I think anybody reading gets the picture. Sure, Yoda can counter a lot of Zero's hax too, but unlike Zero's case, most of it requires effort on Yoda's part to circumvent. The only thing he can't really counter in any way is precognition.
