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DBGT/DBZ anime/DBZ movies speed revision.

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SSJRyu1

SSJRyu1

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I came across a thread made by The Living Tribunal1 that discussed a DBZ anime speed feat. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:The_Living_Tribunal1/DBGT_speeds

I had looked at this feat in the past and wanted to share my findings on it to hopefully confirm a solid number for DB anime characters Post Namek saga Goku.

Speed wise we would definitely use the high end of the calc in the blog above. Since you are using the guides the Map shows that Namek and Earth are in different quadrants, and King Kai does say it's out of his jurisdiction.

http://dragonballarena.gamesurf.it/immagini/info/landmark/landmark_03.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/yDSpTuH.jpg

So high end confirmed by multiple sources for where Namek resides.

Also we see many galaxies in DBZ anime.

Here is a pic from when vegeta and Nappa are going to Earth, it shows what looks to be 5 galaxies and many more distant celestial bodies in the background behind them that would logically be galaxy sized since a star would not look that large from behind a galaxy.

http://i.imgur.com/a7nmkUa.jpg

Here we see space after Namek blows up, the larger objects that are irregular are seemingly galaxies, and more than 4, also worth noting is in the scene they do not move while the stars upfront do implying they are MUCH further away and yet larger still, hence galaxies.

http://i.imgur.com/VXd3quf.jpg

Also of course in GT we see multiple galaxies in a scene with Omega, I count more than 4 in that alone. But worth noting is they are all yellow, not blue so implied different galaxies than previously shown ones.

http://imgur.com/a/HJvUg

Also the biggest thing is Kid buu destroys a galaxy in a flashback, and Broly destroys one in the south galaxy, yet these quadrants all still exist further showing that the Universe size has always been full size in DBZ and not just 4 galaxies.

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/3/37144/4176752-6049957554-34062.gif

http://www.abload.de/img/galaxybusterelb9t.gif

In fact the guides themselves don't even prove 4 galaxies, as there is no plural in Japanese, so they can also be translated to north galaxies, and south galaxies as well, not just north or south galaxy.

So honestly there is no reasonable reason to think DB was ever 4 galaxies, it's just a translation mix up, and the DBZ anime, as well as Super now make it impossible to be 4 galaxies by showing more than 4, and by showing them being destroyed in the past.

For reference, I have done the calc before using the observable Universe.

It takes 6 days to reach Namek, and Namek is shown in the DBZ map as about 1/4 the Universe away from Earth.

http://dragonballarena.gamesurf.it/immagini/info/landmark/landmark_03.jpg

Using the length of the observable Universe as our measurement and dividing it by 4 for the calc's distance, and dividing that distance by the number of seconds in 6 days you get 1.4 trillion times ftl speed In Namek Saga since Goku can react to oncoming meteors on the Ships hull and on a cable he is holding onto, his Kamehameha seems to move faster than the ship, and King kai mentions Goku and Frieza later are faster than he can see as well further cementing this.

http://i.imgur.com/KDL7z6A.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/EQJ1eLO.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/720FeW1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/dS6tVpi.jpg

23 billion lightyears (1/4 observable Universe / 6 days (time to travel to Namek)

217000000000000000000000 km / 518400 sec = 839493827160493827 km/sec = 1.4 trillion times light speed.

So using normal Observable Universe size it makes Namek saga Goku 1.4 trillion times ftl.
 
@Cal You can't cross compare non-canon Goku with canon Goku to debunk this/

@Bruce non-canon = filler

Not gonna argue for or against the Op. Just wanted to state the above.

Although, how many feats put him at the level you're speaking of? @SSJRyu
 
In case you guys didn't see in the post this is a discussion about the cosmology and speed of DBZ anime and GT. Dragon Ball Super feats and Zen'ō's tier are completely irrelevant to this. Please stop derailing the thread with that people. Thank you.
 
Now there isn't really anything I can say about the speed as I'm not a calc member. Though I am curious of these seeming contradictions against the guidebook's model of the universe. What do other members think about this? As this would effect Omega and Gogeta's tiers.
 
Anyway, with regards to the post

Those are not galaxies. Those are nebulas.

Even with that said, these are highly contradictory so all the terrible feats they have, regardless. Such as Goku SSJ4 being hurt by a building level attack. I personally don't even think Anime applies to GT any more than the movies do, but meh.

Kid Buu destroyed a galaxy over many years. This is obviously an accelerated timeframe.
 
Well most fights are speed equalized any way so i'm indifferent to this but if any of the staff thinks it's acceptable i'm ok with this.
 
Well since I don't remember GT to well wasn't Omega Shenron going to destroy the Universe and the onlt reason hes 3-C is because of the Galaxy thing.also Goku's Spirit Bomb that had energy from the whole universe?
 
Well, we currently rate the DBGT universe as having 4 galaxies due to the official guidebooks. This was before the DBS retcon about this topic, and we cannot scale retroactively, due to GT being in a different continuity.

If you wish to re-evaluate this, you will have to ask Lord Kavpeny directly.
 
Also, this topic keeps popping up, and is starting to get tiresome.
 
even if we stay with the 4 galaxy thing, namek being on a significantly different part of the universe along with king kai saying that the namek region was not his area seem to support the high end in my blog

so shud the high end be debated now? based on these 2 things?
 
@The real cal howard Well like was said super and anime are considered different continuities here so that would not be relevant to this.

@SomebodyData Well he has 1 where he reacts to meteors oncoming to the ship, one where his Kamehameha outpaces the same ship, and later when fighting Frieza King Kai can't see them due to speed, yet can easily find, track and see the same ship, so 3 feats for the ship directly.

Also on Namek Goku increases his power, attacks Ginyu members, and returns his power to normal faster than the scouters can pick up, and they can pick up and send signals across intergalactic distances in seconds like Raditz did with Vegeta and Nappa to let them know about the dragon balls, also we know computers even today can proicess quadrillions of calculations a second, so it is implied Goku's movements are faster than the scouters can pick up or calculate things, which are super advanced mftl+ tech when he lands on namek.

This is actually in manga to believe it or not for the scouters. So imo 4 solid feats to place him at this speed.

@Antvasima Fair enough, I will ask him, but even if the guides did say that, which I believe they can be chocked up to translation error, wouldn't anime trump guides anyway? After all I showed many galaxies in several scenes, but more importantly we know in anime galaxies have been destroyed by Buu and Broly, yet the quadrants remain intact proving that there cannot be only 4 galaxies.
 
@The Living Tribunal1

For sure it is in separate quadrants, as shown by the map in the guides, and as stated by King kai.

I sent a message to Kav about making DB anime verse considered a normal universe size, so gonna have to wait for a answer, but minimum your high end should be the number even if he decided to use 4 galaxy model for whatever reason.
 
Broly is extremely arguable, given that nothing indicated that the galaxy actually was wiped out, rather than simply terrorised.

The Buu feat has recently been questioned as very inconsistent by much of the staff, although I personally don't have much of a problem with it. Whether one possible missing galaxy is enough to justify the existence of hundreds of billions is extremely questionable.

Can you repeat the image links that supposedly display multiple galaxies?
 
@TLT1 I do not know. I think that the consensus ended up at the middle end.
 
Antvasima said:
@TLT1 I do not know. I think that the consensus ended up at the middle end.
Click to expand...
yes but the high end could have been taken if someone got the scan for king kai saying it was outside his area of authority, but now we have a scan for it, and a map that shows namek is on a completely different part of the universe than earth (that is at least in a different galaxy, if we take the 4 galaxy model)
 
While I appreciate your obvious dedication and hardwork with DBZ related topics, this four galaxy argument, like Ant said is getting really, really tiresome for what is minimal gain really.
 
LordAizenSama said:
While I appreciate your obvious dedication and hardwork with DBZ related topics, this four galaxy argument, like Ant said is getting really, really tiresome for what is minimal gain really.
Click to expand...
even if we decide on the 4 galaxy thing, it can still possibly give dbgt a massive speed boost (more than its current one)
 
I suppose that you can post the scan in your blog to justify the high end.
 
Except there's no plural in Japanise so it can be galaxy or galaxies,also later was referred as AREA.

So north,soutch etc AREA of universe,what ever that is.

Man,when people are asking Toriyama in those interviews why they always ask him stupid question,ask him about something most wants to know.Is DB & DBZ universe same size as ours?

What is their speed through series and so on!
 
@Antvasima Sure no problem, here is the pics that look to have multiple galaxies imo.

Here is a pic from when vegeta and Nappa are going to Earth, it shows what looks to be 5 galaxies and many more distant celestial bodies in the background behind them that would logically be galaxy sized since a star would not look that large from behind a galaxy.

http://i.imgur.com/a7nmkUa.jpg

Here we see space after Namek blows up, the larger objects that are irregular are seemingly galaxies, and more than 4, also worth noting is in the scene they do not move while the stars upfront do implying they are MUCH further away and yet larger still, hence galaxies.

http://i.imgur.com/VXd3quf.jpg

Also of course in GT we see multiple galaxies in a scene with Omega, I count more than 4 in that alone. But worth noting is they are all yellow, not blue so implied different galaxies than previously shown ones.

http://imgur.com/a/HJvUg

As for Broly, the thing is we see the galaxy be destroyed at the start, and yet they fight in the South galaxy, so logically it would make more sense that it was one of many galaxies, as it would make the opening scene logical if it was just one of many, whereas if there was just one galaxy the scene would not make sense.

For Buu true, it may be higher end, but even the destruction of one galaxy, with all quadrants being intact still after, would indicate there are more than only 4 galaxies.

Also worth noting is that the guide also states the galaxies exist infinitely in space, directly contradicting the notion of only 4 of them yet again, and translations for galaxy can be referred to as plural galaxies to, due to no plural in Japanese language, so most "evidence" in guides for 4 galaxies can be considered to work both ways actually.
 
@LordAizenSama Thanks, tbh I am tired of the 4 galaxy model argument to, it's been around for years, and ive had to go over the evidence dozens of times at least with different people, but I figure since it came up in a more recent topic, and I have what I believe is significant proof of there being more than 4 galaxies, I should share it at least once here.
 
The first image just seems to have a single galaxy, or possibly a nebula.

The second image requires a lot of speculation not to interpret the glowing dots as stars.

The object in the third image do not particularly look like galaxies. Or st least not according to the traditional depiction.

As for Broly, the way that this was explained to me, in the now removed comment section for his profile, his feat was left as unproven hyperbole, as all the stars were still in the sky in the falaxy that he supposedly destroyed, he was simply shown gradually terrorising planets, and was killed just by being pushed into a star. This makes such a power level highly questionable.
 
I am not a moderator anymore, but just want to leave out my thoughts here. The Daizenshuu 7 twice states that there are only four galaxies according to Herms. Also the pictures are not proof of them being galaxies, since it was not mentioned what they and it thinking so without any proof would be contradictory to the guidebooks.

I personally have attempted this exact thing back in October last year with screenshot from DBS episode 15 where Old Kai scans through galaxies, but it wasn't accepted until we had proper formal statement which retconned the story and changed our standing. I see no reason why this case should be any different.
 
Also, after this we probably have to make a rule forbidding this topic, as we cannot repeat it over and over for years.
 
First image fair enough, imo they look like galaxies but I could see calling the clear star clusters nebula, it's your call.

Second image the pictures do seem significantly different from the stars, and are presented in the far background during the scene with stars passing in front, despite being larger onscreen, so much larger than the stars, and they do have the traditional blue misty texture around the outside like a galaxy, without the actual stars in them being visible suggesting they are so many it blends together as a galaxy. But again still your call on if you wanna accept them or not as galaxies.

Well we do know that third image is in reference to the galaxy spoiling and being destroyed, so they seem to be referring to those yellow images as galaxies, and the fact we don't see individual stars in them would likely imply they are to. So I would say definitely those are galaxies.

I do agree Broly's level of power is strange for that time period, and may be an outlier or PIS, but we can't deny that the galaxy is shown to be destroyed at the start, and it would only fit if there were many in the south quadrant after all, so the logical conclusion would be that there are many, and not just one.

Also still with buu, even destroying 1, while the quadrants are still intact, would prove that there are more than 4 technically, otherwise one of the quadrants would be destroyed.

And I mean even the guides which is where the notion of 4 is coming from say that the galaxies exist infinitely, and can be translated so that north galaxy means north galaxies. So really I think the proof for 4 is paper thin and only in part of the guides, while the proof for more than 4 is present in anime multiple times, and even in the same guides to.
 
Also, "exist infinitely" is obvious hyperbole. If the galaxies were infinitely large, it would have been impossible for Goku and other characters to travel across them by spaceship.
 
Fair enough. imo they are clearly galaxies but if we don't want to accept them as such that's your choice of course.

However, anime should take precedence over daizenhuu, which itself is questionable, and in anime Buu and Broly are shown to destroy galaxies, yet the quadrants remain intact, so even if the pictures are questionable, the fact galaxies have been destroyed and yet the 4 quadrants remain intact should be sufficient proof there are more than 4 galaxies, and the pictures at least give plausible visual of more galaxies than 4.
 
Broly was clearly symbolic, given that everything else in the story contradicted the claim, and unlike with Buu, I do not think any such destruction was shown on-screen. Regardless, the movies are too hsrd to fit into the regular timeline.

Buu happened millions of years ago, and a single extra former galaxy does not prove the existence of hundreds of billions of them.
 
I would prefer if this topic was dropped, yes.

In addition, I would appreciate if Faisal, or somebody else that is well informed about this topic, could help out by wording a new discussion rule regarding it.
 
That reminds me. The list of topics set in stone was a no-go, right?

Anyway, it should probably be worded like:

"Please do not bring up the 4 galaxies argument about Dragon Ball GT. The guidebooks clearly state that there is only 4. If we disregard this, then there is no validity in Cell's statement." or something like this.
 
Well i'll drop it as far as suggesting changing it, but I don't agree that we can assume Broly was only symbolic since it is stated by King Kai he is destroying the south galaxy, and would soon destroy the North and even Piccolo and Broly's dad state he would destroy the Universe, if left to, so I'd take the opening as literal since he was able to destroy the Universe over years.

I agree that an extra galaxy does not prove the specific number, but it proves there are more than 4, so since we know 4 is not accurate, then logically the default is a normal universe size, especially given AT based his DB verse on our own.
 
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