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John Egbert vs Sonic (Grace)

The_Wright_Way

The_Wright_Way

VS Battles
Retired
15,436
7,857
I'm not sorry.

Archie Pre-Genesis Wave

Both at strongest 2-A. (Tier 1 AP restricted)

Speed Equalized just in case.

Sonic Says Fate Hax GG
vs.
John Egbert god tier
 
Er, if I limited John to 2-A (which I probably should), would he still be allowed to retcon? Because that's kinda his biggest wincon given the AP gap. I'd imagine so sense it's hax and not AP.
 
Just dropping by to say that Sonic's Fatehax bypasses Type 4 Acausality (AKA Fate Manip Resistance). With how much of a meme that is on this site, I figured everybody would know that lol.

Also can you restrict attacks like that? I heard somewhere that those matches can't be added to the profiles iirc
 
John has no sold tier 1 fate hax so I don't know if that'll be enough.

If they're a higher tier, then yes.
 
Yikes, that's impressive.

Gotcha.

How does John's Plot Manip work, and how in-character is his Fate Manip for combat? Because just a regular blast of Chaos Energy is gonna kill John due to having Conceptual Manip. excuse my ignorance. I need to get into the series some time
 
IIRC, John's plot hax works by

A: He can rewrite the plot IIRC

B: Wiping away glitches that where messing with narrative and shit

His fate manip is combined with his plot hax IIRC

Also, gonna point this out

"Resistance to Plot Manipulation, Reality Warping, Space-Time Manipulation, Void Manipulation, Memory Manipulation (Due to becoming "unstuck" from Paradox Space and the very canon of Homestuck, John was unaffected by the Stardust Glitches created by Calibor messing with the Homestuck Game Cartridge, which were erasing large parts of Paradox Space and affecting the fabric of the story itself, as well as making people forget certain events), Precognition, Fate Manipulation, and Law Manipulation (His existence is unbounded by the laws/rules of Homestuck)"
 
I'm not sure what you're pointing out. All of the stuff that he resists are things that aren't even that important in Sonic's arsenal bar Law Manipulation (and of course Fate Manip), and the most important thing (Conceptual Manip) is the one thing that John doesn't resist.

Unless John starts with Plot/Fatehax from the get-go or quick enough that he can screw things up for him. Sonic shoots a standard blast of Chaos Energy and that's the end of that.
 
K

So if I understand, Sonic can conceptually destroy John, but John can retcon him outta existence. I'd say the latter should take it, as John can "zap" his way out of projectiles (which is him teleporting to a different point in space-time)
 
Sonic has his own fatehax that would make John be PIS making it easier for him to hit him or Sonic do his attacks, and even if he resist the fatehax Sonic's fatehax affects more than just the opponent, it is the universe that makes him win, he resisting would mean that he wouldn't be affected by PIS and shit, but anything else like how likely Sonic is too use a attack, what would a attack do to Sonic, etc would still be affected by the fatehax

But I really don't know much of Homestuck to really argue right now, so I am just going to post this
 
Sonic has his own fatehax that would make John be PIS making it easier for him to hit him or Sonic do his attacks, and even if he resist the fatehax Sonic's fatehax affects more than just the opponent, it is the universe that makes him win, he resisting would mean that he wouldn't be affected by PIS and shit, but anything else like how likely Sonic is too use a attack, what would a attack do to Sonic, etc would still be affected by the fatehax

But I really don't know much of Homestuck to really argue right now, so I am just going to post this
 
Theuser789 said:
Sonic has his own fatehax that would make John be PIS making it easier for him to hit him or Sonic do his attacks, and even if he resist the fatehax Sonic's fatehax affects more than just the opponent, it is the universe that makes him win, he resisting would mean that he wouldn't be affected by PIS and shit, but anything else like how likely Sonic is too use a attack, what would a attack do to Sonic, etc would still be affected by the fatehax

But I really don't know much of Homestuck to really argue right now, so I am just going to post this
Click to expand...
Dude, I already said John resists Tier 1 fatehax.
 
You should read the second part of my comment again, especialy the part where I even explain the "he resists" part
 
That still requires Sonic to affect a guy with tier 1 resistance, which isn't happening. You can't change the effects of someone's attack without bypassing his resistance.

Hell, Lord English's fate hax works pretty much the same way and it still didn't do anything to John.
 
Yes, don't strawman me pls, I was merely saying that, Sonic's fatehax affects more than just the opponent, not a tier 1 cosmology, of course not, but the battle arena and any other things like It that affects the battle, so the opponent resisting the fatehax wouldn't make it useless, it would be a nerf tho
 
So, quick rundown on how John's retcons work.

1. It bypasses Type 1 Acausality, so that's a no go right off the bat.

2. It works by John willing himself to a specific spot in Paradox Space (a tier 1 structure, so John has tier 1 range with it).

For example:

John thinks: Hey, it'd be easier to fight this guy at his weakest.

ZAP!

Appears to Sonic before he picked up The One-Billonth Ring.

Kills past Sonic, so Hyper Sonic ceases to exist.

Stuff like that. Wether or not Sonic can hit him before that happens is a different matter.
 
Sadistic Sleuth said:
As wright pointed out, John resisted similar fatehax
Click to expand...
If so Sonic's fatehax won't help him then, not that it changes Sonic's ic moves tho since Sonic himself probaly doesn't know of his own fatehax
 
Sonic's wincon seems more reliable due to it really just being any attack that could kill John, which can home in on him or through AOE blasts or through Sonic getting the jump on him through invisibility and teleportation, but I'm not ignorant to the fact that it's game over for Sonic if John moves towards Plot/Fate Manip fast enough.

I think I vote Inconclusive. Both have wincons but I think it's a guessing game as to who can successfully get their stuff off first.
 
Yeah, Ultra Sonic's 1st move in character is Atomic rewriting then he moves on the Chaos Control as his 2nd move if his 1st move doesn't do the job...

Icon FRA
 
Quick question, would Ultra Sonic's Acausality Type 1 protect him from the changes to the past done by John?
 
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