Supergirl (CW) upgrade

Greenshifter · Nov 2, 2019

So we all know this calc which would make Supergirl tier 6. This was refuted in this thread based on her thinking she would die to a 400 megaton attack when trying to deceive Mr. Mxyzptlk into saying his name backwards.

Luckily this counter-statement was in S2E13, while Supergirl tanked Overgirl exploding in S3E08 (crisis on earth-X) and as noted in S4E08 Bunker Hill aliens' powers grow the more they use them:

S4E08 Bunker Hill

Nia Nal: I... I saw the moment before the gunshot.

The power's never worked like that before.

[STAMMERING] I just knew what to do.

Kara: I guess that makes sense. Our powers are like muscles.

The more we use them, the stronger they get.

This may scale to Wally West and other Flash's Supersonic Punch since Wally knocked out Music Meister with it who was absorbing both Flash and Supergirl's powers and took a hit from Martian Manhunter and while you could argue that Music Meister was faking it to teach them a lesson, no-one present thought it was weird that Wally's supersonic seemed to be as powerful as Martian Manhunter's punch.

There is also this statement in crisis on earth-X:

Supergirl: My my cousin he'll find you.

Reverse Flash: Your cousin. Really? Fun tidbit. I fought your cousin once. In the future. He is fast. I'm faster.

Indicating that it might have been a fair fight where Eobard might even will have had the advantage.

Greenshifter · Nov 2, 2019

For the specific scaling to Superman, Martian Manhunter and other people who can constantly keep up with Supergirl I'm gonna need some help tho.

Andytrenom · Nov 3, 2019

Tier 6 is just not at all consistent for Wally and other Flash characters. They have zero feats near this level on their own and are always portrayed around tier 8 to tier7 levels of power. This isn't even like Saitama where they pull every other feat casually.

The fact that the scaling isn't even solid as it should be and boils down to "there's a good chance he didn't hurt the guy scaling to 6-B, but no one commented on his seemingly hurting him so he's 6-B" makes it even more questionable to use this feat

Reverse Flash has durability negation with phasing, and he specifically attributes his ability to fight Superman to his speed advantage, there's a high possibility that this is what he meant so this too isn't very solid for scaling

Greenshifter · Nov 3, 2019

Well there are times they're portrayed as tier 9 so it's just not consistent in the general sense, however when are they shown getting hurt by something that wouldn't scale to them in the first place or something that has limited durability negation like lightning? Also this might only scale to the supersonic punch (Maybe RF took one of those tho but not sure since I still need to finish season 5).

Andytrenom · Nov 3, 2019

While I can't remember moments of them "getting hurt" per say, The 3 megaton nuke from season 4 is something Barry explicitly could not produce enough energy to stop on his own, and the satellite crash from the finale is also in the tier 7 range. It was calced to be High 7-C iirc assuming only 1/10th of the full satellite was punched, but even if we use the full weight of an average satellite, I'm certain it won't come anywhere close to tier 6.

The punch would still scale to durability due to being a physical attack that doesn't break the hand and hence to any character that can harm Wally.

ByAsura · Nov 3, 2019

Greenshifter said:
So we all know this calc which would make Supergirl tier 6. This was refuted in this thread based on her thinking she would die to a 400 megaton attack when trying to deceive Mr. Mxyzptlk into saying his name backwards.

A threat that Mxy, who fought a Kryptonian-level opponent, took very seriously.

Greenshifter · Nov 3, 2019

All right then, I was gonna bring up Nora (I think) saying that Cicada couldn't even be stopped by the Legion of Superheroes in the future, while an angry Flash using the energy of his lightning bolts in his punches almost killed him but never mind I guess.

It does seem outlierish for now, but we should at least come back to this if Crisis in Infinite earths gives us some more feats or scaling to work with or something.

@ByAsura Fair point, do you agree with the upgrade for Supergirl based on her growing stronger though? I'd give you a link to the statement but I have no idea where to watch the show online.

ByAsura · Nov 3, 2019

I'm honestly neutral on it. I disagreed in the previous thread because I didn't think such a massive jump in power was justified, but it is now.

Greenshifter · Nov 3, 2019

All right then, can someone tell me when Superman stated Martian Manhunter is the strongest being on earth-38? As for Superman himself, he should probably have only one key and be tier 6 as he was constantly treated to be above Kara until the season 2 finale where she beat him while he was going full power and he does still seem comparable to her when restraining A.M.A.Z.O. (CW) which is a year after her tanking the tier 6 explosion.

Which end of the calc should be used?

I'm wondering if we could also calc the visual explosio since that would probably lead to less guesswork.

Andytrenom · Nov 3, 2019

Fairly certain the statement is season 1, I don't know if it got repeated later though

Greenshifter · Nov 3, 2019

Did he even have lines in season 1 lol?

Andytrenom · Nov 4, 2019

Hank Henshaw had the line, but he was repeating what Superman said

Greenshifter · Nov 4, 2019

Ah ok, well Supes should probably be tier 6 for the entirety of the show and thus Martian Manhunter as well, not sure about Cyborg Superman tho.

Andytrenom · Nov 10, 2019

Bump?

Greenshifter · Nov 10, 2019

You ok with tier 6 Superman and Martian Manhunter and do I request a calc of the visual feat or do you think it's not worth it?

Also I'd say season 1 to mid-season 2 low-7B Supergirl, end of season 2 and onwards would be [insert accepted value for calc here] based on her beating Superman at the end of season 2.

Andytrenom · Nov 10, 2019

Actually I see problems with MM being tier 6 since the beginning. He was threatened and about to be killed by Astra, whom Supergirl can fight. I think he can also be hurt by Indigo. The gap between S1 supergirl and S1 MM shouldn't be this big, which by proxy means Superman shouldn't have always been tier 6 either

I think the statement is more reliable for a calc

Greenshifter · Nov 10, 2019

Hmm that does complicate stuff, everyone gets pre- and post-Crisis on Earth X keys then?

Andytrenom · Nov 10, 2019

It would be kinda weird for Superman who didn't participate in Crisis but that's really just a naming issue

Greenshifter · Nov 10, 2019

Manhunter didn't participate either IIRC but yeah those are details, he is still treated as superior or comparable to Supergirl right?

Hellbeast1 · Dec 16, 2019

I'm personally unsure of what we do with Routh Superman

We know this is early Reeves canon who should be Country Level but does anyone actually fight on par with him (he seemed to beat CW Supes fairly easily)

Granted Reeves Supes needs revisions in general

ComicBookMyths · Dec 16, 2019

Hellbeast1 said:
I'm personally unsure of what we do with Routh Superman
We know this is early Reeves canon who should be Country Level but does anyone actually fight on par with him (he seemed to beat CW Supes fairly easily)

Granted Reeves Supes needs revisions in general

It was stated to be a continent by Lex in Superman: Returns, it was made of kryptonite and growing and raising a continent to the height that he did would require lunar levels of energy. Originally, only Superman I and II were canon to Superman: Returns but Clark canonised Superman III by saying he's fought himself before after fighting Earth-38 Superman in Crisis on Infinite Earths. That would also mean Superman IV: Quest for Peace is also canon, in other words all of Reeves's movies and therefore feats are now canon to Routh's version. That includes, throwing every nuke into the sun in around a minute, pushing the moon at hypersonic speeds to cause a lunar eclipse (large planetary), reversing time etc. And most of his feats were casual, now take this Superman and age him by decades of being exposed to more sunlight and comparing Kingdom Come Superman to either Superman: Returns or any of Reeves's movies should be like comparing Kingdom Come Superman in the comics to Post-Crisis Superman.

Greenshifter · Dec 16, 2019

This was more a thread to upgrade the Arrowverse supers without taking into account other canons. I am currently not caught up with Supergirl, however I have seen some stuff about Red daughter being more powerful than country level I assume so depending on how powerful and the gaps in between fights. Arrowverse supers might actually scale to Routh's best feats due to them increasing in power over time. Heck maybe even Smallville's High 4-C feat if a fight between them happens/happened (also didn't watch Crisis yet).

Ionliosite · Dec 16, 2019

No one can possibly scale to Smallville Clark's High 4-C, given he gave up his powers before the Crisis started.

Greenshifter · Dec 16, 2019

Ouhn sad, Flash throws an IMP and everyone becomes 4-B OvO ƒñú

Greenshifter · Dec 17, 2019

Martian Manhunter should probably still scale post-Crisis on Earth-X for hurting Reign. Martian Manhunter, Miss Martian and Supergirl are also superior to White Martians in season 3 although they can still get hurt by them, while it took the 3 of them teaming up to defeat one of them in season 2.

Superman should still scale to tier 6 from Elseworlds onwards (not sure if he fought on-screen in between Crisis on Earth-X and Elseworlds) for being able to restrai A.M.A.Z.O. (CW) who has all of their powers and took a punch from Supergirl.

Which end of the calc do I use?

Matthew_Schroeder · Dec 18, 2019

The Tier 6 feat is inconsistent.

Greenshifter · Dec 19, 2019

@Matt read the OP, Andy and ByAsura agreed and pretty sure she has even more powerful feats after this. I also provided evidence of her actually growing in power with the White Martian example and it's also clear from Mon-El that he also grew in power in his 7 years in the future.

Greenshifter · Jan 2, 2020

Bump, can I apply this?

Hellbeast1 · Jan 2, 2020

Ionliosite said:
No one can possibly scale to Smallville Clark's High 4-C, given he gave up his powers before the Crisis started.

Also the High 4-C feat is a highball rather then a fair low end for reasons I've mentioned before

Greenshifter · Jan 2, 2020

ArkhamDC06 · Jan 2, 2020

Just to know, what do you think about Rama Khan and Bloowork ? Khan especially has good feats as he is stated to have caused Mount Vesivius eruption, this could be a good upgrade for Kara and stuff since she is able to fight him

Note : i don't watch Supergirl, i only watch some scenes and i check on the Arrowverse wiki but i still know enough things to work on it.

Hellbeast1 · Jan 2, 2020

While I'm here I have a question to ask?

Why do we deem scaling Ollie and co to early Flash even remotely consistent?

It's only in one episode he gets this showing which is inconsistent with him being incapped by shit way weaker then Barry on several occassions

Instead I recommend we scale him and co to their own feats (Which looking here seems pretty damn 9-B)

Greenshifter · Jan 2, 2020

Didn't watch that far yet, don't think it's gonna get past 6-B but it could be a good supporting feat.

Also didn't Reign have some impressive feats of trying to destroy the earth?

ArkhamDC06 · Jan 2, 2020

Not really sure though he is still able to block him and harm him to some extent....maybe we should indeed not really count this. But i don't think this prevents him from staying 9-A. He still has some feats that correspond to the tier from what i can tell.

ByAsura · Jan 2, 2020

Greenshifter said:
@Matt read the OP, Andy and ByAsura agreed and pretty sure she has even more powerful feats after this. I also provided evidence of her actually growing in power with the White Martian example and it's also clear from Mon-El that he also grew in power in his 7 years in the future.

I didn't agree, I said I was neutral on it.

Hellbeast1 · Jan 2, 2020

@Green it depends on the context

If she means wipe it out over time it's possible for her to be 6-B (Also what version of Supes is KC, that could help us scale if he's just Returns Supes/Superman IV)

ArkhamDC06 · Jan 2, 2020

Can't remember about this0 Though Reign was clearly stated to be superior to Supergirl and also had magic enhancement due to her nature as a Wordkiller.

Greenshifter · Jan 2, 2020

@Hellbeast wrong thread but pretty sure Ollie scales to his explosives which I checked the math behind and they are 9-A, Flash is just a supporting feat and heck I'd say with the crazy stuff Oliver does during crossovers he should probably get an upgrade, if not AP then certainly speed.

Greenshifter · Jan 2, 2020

Yeah Reign pretty much stomped Supergirl in the beginning of the season and later on sort of got amped I think so Supergirl probably scales at the end of the season, enough time for her to grow stronger.

@ByAsura Ah sorry my bad then.

Matthew_Schroeder · Jan 4, 2020

Tier 6 is not consistent with any other feat in CW.

Supergirl (CW) upgrade

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