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The Ultimate Luck

BakiHanma18

BakiHanma18

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After checking in a GDT why Naegi's page describes his luck as worse than Komaeda's, it has come to my attention that there is no reason that Komaeda's luck should be described as better than Naegi's. This thread is to discuss whether or not Naegi's page (and any pages with the relevant material) should be changed to Naegi's luck being better than Komaeda's, or to treat them as separate entities.

Link to the GDT: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3587389
 
Nagito has more and better feats, both of bad and good luck.

So, no.

Check the pages, it says it all.
 
 
Now go ahead and check the Nagito feats.

Also, the one about the lottery saving his life is the biggest stretch I've ever seen.
 
The lottery feat is legit. It makes sense in context.

There's also a feat where he wins a gamble with a incredibely low chance of success in Danganronpa IF.

But i wouldn't say Naegi's luck>>>Komaeda's luck just because Komaeda said Naegi's is better. Nagito is not only self deprecating, he's also immensely biased towards Naegi.
 
CrimsonStarFallen said:
The lottery feat is legit. It makes sense in context.
There's also a feat where he wins a gamble with a incredibely low chance of success in Danganronpa IF.

But i wouldn't say Naegi's luck>>>Komaeda's luck just because Komaeda said Naegi's is better. Nagito is not only self deprecating, he's also immensely biased towards Naegi.
Click to expand...
I think that's fair. If you are confident one way or another, how would you compare their lucks? Is one better than the other, or are they similar, but with different applications?
 
The difference is that Nagito's luck is directly beneficial to the point that it makes him "invulnerable" while Naegi's luck is super momentary.
 
A poor man who survives through any danger is lucky. A rich man who gets anything he wants but dies young is also lucky. But depending on the goal changes how much. In one context the rich man is luckier based on envy and wants. In the other context the poor man is luckier based on routine and needs. If this is a fight between the two the poor man comes out on top. Personally I would prefer survivability. Unlikely events are useful but ultimate survival is constant.
 
KarmodF said:
The difference is that Nagito's luck is directly beneficial to the point that it makes him "invulnerable" while Naegi's luck is super momentary.
Click to expand...
True, but more often then not, Makoto's luck only seems to manifest in life changing situations, and it's once potent, I've even heard it compared to plot armor😂
 
Choinoi said:
A poor man who survives through any danger is lucky. A rich man who gets anything he wants but dies young is also lucky. But depending on the goal changes how much.
In one context the rich man is luckier based on envy and wants. In the other context the poor man is luckier based on routine and needs. If this is a fight between the two the poor man comes out on top. Personally I would prefer survivability. Unlikely events are useful but ultimate survival is constant.
Click to expand...
Agreed
 
I don't think there's really a way to compare Naegi's and Komaeda luck tbh. They are very different in what they do.
 
Junko. Junko is the one who can show the difference between Nagito and Makoto's luck.

Junko is the smartest person on the planet. Her main ability is to analyze and predict everything, events, people, powers, machinery. Her brain is literally OP.

However, she isn't impressed with Nagito. Nagito's luck doesn't protect Nagito from Junko.

Because Nagito's luck is actually pretty easy to analyze. The 5th trial of the 2nd game, the students used Nagito's luck as real evidence in finding the killer. If Nagito's luck was actually strong, it wouldn't have been conquered by the students.

Junko, however, is in an entirely different league of brain power than students. She analyzed and predicted Nagito's luck so she was never in any danger of losing to it. Actually, Nagito, with his luck, did set out to stop Junko, twice. First time he failed, Junko brought Hajime with her and the second time, Junko looooooowwwwww diff brainwashed Nagito. Nagito than became a servant of Junko, spreading malice and ill intent across the world, in his own way.

But... Junko could never pull off the same thing with Makoto. Makoto's luck can't be analyzed and predicted by Junko by the very nature of his luck, as told by Junko's lips here, 0:42.

Junko likes Makoto, not for anything other than Makoto's presents can disrupt any Junko's plans, as no one on earth can do the same.
 
So on one end of the argument, some people think Naegi's is better. On the other side, because the two types of luck are so fundamentally different, some people think they can't truly be compared. To clarify, as of right now, are we all in agreement that Nagito's luck is not better than Naegi's as Naegi's profile says?
 
I don't know why it's claim Nagito is better just because the audience can have an easier time analyzing it than Makoto's. Having it easier to analyze actually makes it weaker.

Also, when Nagito and Junko both state that Makoto's is the better luck too.
 
Just a Random Butler said:
Hmmm, I may not need to put what I have to say.
Click to expand...
I'd still like to hear it. :3 Whether to support it, to debate it or to accept it.
 
Hmmm... I think that I agree about Naegi and Komaeda's luck are different type of luck. But about who is better, I'm not so sure. I know that Junko can't predict Naegi's luck. But the main reason she can't because his luck's nature which is not be straight line like Komaeda's luck I don't think that it is proper reason to sum up by just different nature. I think tha we should just focus on explain on their profile about how diffferent on their luck and didn't need to focus about who is beeter..
 
Xanxussama1010 said:
Hmmm... I think that I agree about Naegi and Komaeda's luck are different type of luck. But about who is better, I'm not so sure. I know that Junko can't predict Naegi's luck. But the main reason she can't because his luck's nature which is not be straight line like Komaeda's luck I don't think that it is proper reason to sum up by just different nature. I think tha we should just focus on explain on their profile about how diffferent on their luck and didn't need to focus about who is beeter..
Click to expand...
I agree. The wiki pages shouldn't state which is better, that's what we are discussing on taking off, as some people (because Nagito's luck is easier to analysis and predict) believe Nagito's is inherently stronger than Makoto's.
 
Yes, I'll clarify in the OP, because I've come around for the fact that they are just too different, and that neither should inherently be listed as better than the other
 
Nagito can use his luck as sort of offense and sort of defense while Makoto's is absolutely about defense.
 
ElixirBlue said:
Nagito can use his luck as sort of offense and sort of defense while Makoto's is absolutely about defense.
Click to expand...
I 100% agree, that's even how I explained it to a buddy of mine, @Choinoi
 
I agree that both lucks can't be compared, but the problem is: which side of the luck does Izuru/Hajime get? a mix of both?
 
I believe both. So he has Nagito's sort of offensive luck with Makoto's powerful defensive luck.
 
Agreed, as Nagito and Naegi (classes 77 and 78 respectively) were in attendance at Hope's Peak during Hajime's operations, which means he should have an amped version of both lucks
 
On previous thread, you quoted "On Makoto Naegi's page, it says his luck "isn't nearly as powerful as Komaeda's..."

But is that really about the "potency" of luck? Or is it talking about how frequent the luck affects the user and anything around it? Because if it is the latter, it might makes sense actually.

The defense and offense thing seems too specific, when observed from a wider perspective, both users can seem to do both offense and defense, intentional or not. It all just depends on the situation, I guess.

Izuru Kamukura has all talents known in Hope's Peak Academy, since they research the talents of the Ultimates that come to the school. Former or current students, no exception. This means that Izuru has combined variants of luck. But it seems that Izuru/Fused Hajimeme has great knowledge about it and can control it much better than the other two holders of the talent.
 
One or the other really isn't better. Nagito has such bad luck that it sonehow saves him from shit, while Komaeda benefits from his luck more than he survives.

But I can see it argued that Komaeda's is better - as the anime of the past events that kicked off despair show, Komaeda's luck also protects him. Hajime's luck as well, which worked like Komaeda's because barely anything bad happened to him, also protected him by ******* Komaeda's gun.
 
Just a Random Butler said:
On previous thread, you quoted "On Makoto Naegi's page, it says his luck "isn't nearly as powerful as Komaeda's..."
But is that really about the "potency" of luck? Or is it talking about how frequent the luck affects the user and anything around it? Because if it is the latter, it might makes sense actually.

The defense and offense thing seems too specific, when observed from a wider perspective, both users can seem to do both offense and defense, intentional or not. It all just depends on the situation, I guess.

Izuru Kamukura has all talents known in Hope's Peak Academy, since they research the talents of the Ultimates that come to the school. Former or current students, no exception. This means that Izuru has combined variants of luck. But it seems that Izuru/Fused Hajimeme has great knowledge about it and can control it much better than the other two holders of the talent.
Click to expand...
Powerful=potency. On one side we have luck that makes incredibly unlikely things happen, on the other side, the luck can only affect one thing (preventing death), but it's as 100% guaranteed as luck can get, technically making Naegi's luck more potent, however, it'd be like comparing apples to oranges, as they have different success rates and do entirely different things.

As far as the feats I'm currently aware of, Naegi has no offensive luck feats, and Nagito's defensive luck feats pale in comparison to Naegi's by a long-shot


The only two lucks we currently know about are Naegi and Nagito, so as far we know, those are the only two lucks he has, despite any former students with Ultimate Luck
 
Naegi can have an offensive luck as long as it defends him in a way. And Nagito just avoided certain death by having his student handbook in his shirt pocket.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
One or the other really isn't better. Nagito has such bad luck that it sonehow saves him from shit, while Komaeda benefits from his luck more than he survives.
But I can see it argued that Komaeda's is better - as the anime of the past events that kicked off despair show, Komaeda's luck also protects him. Hajime's luck as well, which worked like Komaeda's because barely anything bad happened to him, also protected him by ******* Komaeda's gun.
Click to expand...
Nagito is Komaeda. Did you mean Naegi?

Komaeda's luck is good, but when compared to life saving, Naegi's luck consistently saves him in much more unlikely ways from much more certain deaths. Nagito has a gunshot here, an airplane crash there, SN luck for sure, but not "win the Ultimate Luck lottery, which causes you to get recruited by Hope's Peak, which saves you from almost certain death at the hands of the apocalypse" lucky.
 
Just a Random Butler said:
Naegi can have an offensive luck as long as it defends him in a way. And Nagito just avoided certain death by having his student handbook in his shirt pocket.
Click to expand...
Again, I don't recall any instance of that happening. It seems 100% of the time, his defense doesn't directly harm anyone, it only saves him

Nagito does have defensive luck, but Naegi's defensive luck stomps it. It's like Nagito has a 50 in offense and 50 in defense, whereas Naegi just dumped 100 points into defense
 
Komaeda has a twisted mind, so his luck is also twisted as ****. But it is easy to understand because it always affects things according to Komaeda's needs. So, I think, to some extent, Komaeda knows how to make use of his own talent. Which also makes it easier for Enoshima to predict, since all you have to understand is Komaeda's way of thinking.

I don't know about you guys talking about which luck is shit, but both luck can be shit at times. Komaeda's luck is too extreme that it affected his way of living, his luck just comes here and there, almost 100% of the time.

Naegi's luck only affects him at major times, and most of the time, he gets good luck disguised as a bad luck (At least, if we look at it from his perspective). And it will definitely act on the offense as long as his own luck gets what it wants to happen, he just straight up unintentionally ruined someone's chances of getting into Hope's Peak, did some collateral damage on the streets and probably got someone arrested too.

It will act defensive or offensive, either one or both, depending on the situation, it will always happen at the major times of his life. This could count as near-death (Which of course, will always act on defensive on near-death to save him, which happens all of the time because this is a story in which a lot of people die. Which is not surprising as to why you think that it's always on defensive) or entirely something else, for example wanting to get into Hope's Peak academy.

I don't know, at least for me, it doesn't really matter with this offense or defense. It's just defense happens most of the time because of course defense is the most logical act to do if someone's about to die. Which is what his luck would do.

Whether which luck is shit, or not, I think is up to the person's standards, for me or for you, it could be different. And this is all about the viewpoint of the luck users and their perspective of which thing benefits them.
 
Not only in the "major moments". I personally wouldn't call the scene from DR3:DA where Makoto slipped up, avoiding a wrench attack from Junko as a "major moment". Neither would be Junko's attempt in the first game to kill Naegi where she was stopped by Kirigiri (it was luck that Junko actually retreated since she'd easily be able to deal with both of them in terms of CQC).

In regards to offensive luck, I'd count Junko's insanity turning on herself and actually accepting her loss rather than "haha, despair you fools! You won the game, but it's just a game, so I'll watch you wallow in despair as you realize that the whole game was just a meaningless game and that you are still my hostages!" or something like that.
 
That doesn't look major, but I mean for the user's luck. If he had died there with the wrench moment, there would be no Danganronpa: Trigger Happy Havoc in the first place.

By major, I just meant important moments of Makoto Naegi, including death situations or his inspirations and etc that can be included in his everyday life.
 
Oh right, Naegi survived a fall of tens of meters without even any noteworthy bruises while falling head-first.
 
I would call every instance of Naegi's luck major, because the simple fact of the matter is, if his luck didn't intervene, he would've died. I again point to these instances


 
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