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Issues with Madara's Calc

Damage3245

Damage3245

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This thread is to address the calc currently being used to supporting the rating for the top tiers; Madara's calc of creating the Shinju roots during the Infinite Tsukuyomi.

To be brief the problem is that the calc assumes the number of roots Madara creates lines up proportionally to the IRL population of Earth: 7,700,000,000.

This is a problem because it seems to come without any kind of basis or support. The Naruto Earth is not our Earth, the countries are completely different to ours and estimating population based of of technology level doesn't really work because Naruto's technology is all over the place.

The five biggest nations on the planet (that we know of) plus the Land of Iron could muster a collective military force of about 80,000 soldiers. Even if we were to be super generous and assume that 1 out of every 1000 people in those nations was a Shinobi, that would still only give those six nations collectively around 80,000,000 population. And all the other nations we know of are much smaller than them.

Options are far as I can see it is we can try estimating the actual population of the Naruto planet, or we can dismiss the calc. I'd like to know what people's thoughts are.
 
This can only end in so many ways. I will say that the lack of any large or major cities supports the idea of a sub-IRL number though.
 
Afaik one root was big enough for many people, even with the human world population, the number of roots should be different

I agree with the OP
 
As mentioned above, assuming the planet is the same size is one thing. Since by and large an author will make a Earth-Like planet Earth sized. Population however depends on a multitude of factors. Like for example I'm fine with saying OPM's Earth is the size of the IRL one, but it's population is seemingly much lower due to lack of wide spread urban areas.
 
I'm not really a calc member and don't want to give input on the logistics of what should and should not be used but I would like to make reference that there are other large continents outside of the 5 big ones canonically, they appear in the Shikamaru novel, whether you can actually extrapolate any meaningful information about the Population from it IDK.
 
By itself, that info doesn't tell us anything.

Until a suitable replacement calc can be created I believe we should remove the calc from the profile + verse page for now. It won't affect any of the tiers, so it is a minor change.
 
I believe Naruto's Earth is our Earth just with different geography Saturn is specifically mentioned in the Novelization of The Last and it's specifically referred to as Earth by the characters so assuming Earth size should be a given.

Even then assuming our population applies here isn't unreasonable this is literally what the Shinju Tree does on all planets no reason to assume it wouldn't do the same to everyone on our planet just cause theres more people.
 
And there is no reason to assume the other planets have a population as large as Naruto's. End of the day, its all assumptions which have no basis in the setting. It was even pointed out above that one root already drained far more than one person so the calc is completely wrong even if they had the same population as IRL Earth.
 
We can estimate how many people one root can affect with the visuals

Then:

1 Root - X people

Y Roots - Population of Naruto's World

So finding the number of people affected by one root and estimating Naruto's world population can give us the total number of roots
 
Visuals show more than a few dozen people being trapped even in a single root, especially because these roots are pretty darn massive. It is certainly not one for every person in the world.

However, I am neutral about the whole population density thing because honest to God no clue and I can't fathom how to calculate a number.
 
Toneri's feat, above which they scale because Naruto wasn't even using Six Paths stuff as far as I can remember and Toneri lost to Naruto, while Madara was level with, if not pushing back, Naruto and Sasuke.
 
I mean, it's really hard to say.

I personally find it completely unbelieveable that their population is less than our world population was in 1804 (1 billion), or even 1927 (2 billion).
 
Well, at worst we can use 7 Billion

However, to find the number of roots, we should follow what I showed before, using the number of what one root can take in manga, by going with the visuals, and then scale to world's population

Probably it will be 5-B, but even if it isn't, they still scale to Hagoromo who's 200 Zt, I believe
 
There's still the terrible living conditions you have to keep in mind from the time of Hashirama with a life expectancy a bit above early adulthood for fighters plus constant war. Then then warious ninja wars over the years.

I would personally settle for for something around the figures of 1 billion, but is really hard to say.
 
YungManzi said:
I mean, it's really hard to say.

I personally find it completely unbelieveable that their population is less than our world population was in 1804 (1 billion), or even 1927 (2 billion).
Click to expand...
Given the technology of the time period as well as the geography, I wouldnt put t past Naruto to take place in the 18th or 19th century.
 
LSirLancelotDuLacl said:
There's still the terrible living conditions you have to keep in mind from the time of Hashirama with a life expectancy a bit above early adulthood for fighters plus constant war. Then then warious ninja wars over the years.
I would personally settle for for something around the figures of 1 billion, but is really hard to say.
Click to expand...
The madara feat is 2-3 generations removed from that period in a time where industialization is more than likely already a thing (Given the technology).
 
I mean

We have far away people talking in TV like applicances, we have seen Guy once use something like a small Spec Ops communication device, we have seen complex computers, electricity poles, radios... 19th century at the very very least. Kishimoto just honestly didn't gave much thought or care to the technology level and made it an odd mingle.
 
Okay so

Naruto Planet is literally stated to be earth IIRC, and Shinobi are pretty explicitly far removed from regular society a lot of the time, living in hidden villages and shit. Naruto also has modern tech like TV and Cities with world leaders shown to be different from the Shinobi. I'm not arguing complete 7 billion population, but all things considered it should still be in the billions range considering that ONLY Shinobi showed up to the fight
 
Literally none of that could exist in affordable capacity without industialization.

And with industrialization comes rapid population increase.
 
Not sure as to the legitimacy of this, but this is from the wiki:

"When commenting on Naruto, Masashi Kishimoto said that he designed Konohagakure without specifying an era or location in the real world, noting that the village is "just a place in his head". Without a specific time period, Kishimoto included modern elements in the series such as convenience stores and movies, but specifically excluded projectile weapons and vehicles from the storyline. Regarding technology itself, Kishimoto said that "Naruto" would not have any firearms, yet one appeared behind a shopkeeper's desk on a page in Chapter 19. He said he may include automobiles, aircraft, and "low-processing" computers; Kishimoto specified the computers would "maybe" be eight-bit and that they would "definitely not" be sixteen-bit."

Maybe we can use this to gain an estimate? Google tells me that the first 8-bit computer was released in 1972, and the population at that time was around 3.8 Billion. That would actually put it in the 200-300 zettaton range, comparable to Hagoromo's own feat.
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
the census from when the computer came out for us doesn't have anything to do with population, there is no use trying to slap a random number on it.
Click to expand...
It's not a direct causation. The popualtion at the time this technology was a thing was this high. That is the best number we can possibly get.
 
As much as this leaves a big question to be answered, the planet is stated to be Earth. The size of the planet is safely assumed to be Earth, and without forcing too much guesswork the assumption that the population is also similar to Earth's is a fair note. From end of Shippuden to Boruto they already have more computers, high speed trains and just a few technological advances from 15 years back. There is no distinct time period we can pin point the verse to be in, the assumption that there just are billions would be the safest bet than lowballing it based on how many ninja there are.

And with that are two things:

There was ALWAYS a shortage of ninja

and every living thing on the planet has chakra anyways

So regardless if the people of the planet are combat ready or not, they will still be attacked by the Shinju.
 
Based on what we've seen of the planet at least according to my memory, it's not really that populated. The only places we know of are the villages and other special areas from like movies and stuff.

The continent is different as well, the war's they wage is for sure much more devestating i'd imagine, you even got creatures walking around that can level mountains. The population thing should just be dropped honestly.
 
People are all around the world.

The new light novels even prove this with countries that lay outside of The land of Fire which takes weeks to reach.

It doesn't make any sense to assume the planet doesn't have a average amount of human life on it
 
Also damage...didn't any tell u ablut making so many Naruto crts. U literally just made one the other day and it's a staff only crt while the other isn't even finished
 
Sigurd Snake in The Eye said:
Based on what we've seen of the planet at least according to my memory, it's not really that populated. The only places we know of are the villages and other special areas from like movies and stuff.
The continent is different as well, the war's they wage is for sure much more devestating i'd imagine, you even got creatures walking around that can level mountains. The population thing should just be dropped honestly.
Click to expand...
You can fit all of Earth's human in a city like LA shoulder to shoulder-- the most dense place recorded was some hell hole in China w/ 50k+ people in under 2.7 hectarces :

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/kowloon-walled-city/

and districts with 3400,000 people per square mile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mong_Kok

There could be less than 200 people per square mile: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_City,_Montana

The verdict is: Just because it LOOKS empty in the general area doesn't mean that it isn't packed somewhere else: Planet are pretty ******* huge. We could scatter on Pluto, which has the width of Australia and we'd still have living room for 7 billion people.
 
AstralKing7 said:
Also damage...didn't any tell u ablut making so many Naruto crts. U literally just made one the other day and it's a staff only crt while the other isn't even finished
Click to expand...
Two is not a huge number.
 
AstralKing7 said:
I feel like this thread wasn't really solid with enough evidence besides jsut personal belief^
Click to expand...
The same applies to assuming that there are 7 billion people in the world of Naruto though.
 
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