• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
I highly recommend looking at my feats timeline to see the consistency and sources of Superman feats.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Firestorm808/Superman_Feats_Timeline_Project

I don't have time to go over all of the feats your link has, but I'll update my post as I go along with their respective sources. There are numerous errors.

 
Last edited:
Please do consider, though, that the Hyperversal/Outerversal feats either require amps from external sources, or don't make much sense

The Universal feats, however, absolutely have weight to them
 
I'll be documenting them in my timeline with their sources and context accordingly.

I would appreciate any help on the matter.
 
> You literally can't fly from the Fourth World to Earth without a Boom Tube

Adventures of Superman vol 2 is a large set of non-canon Superman comics that can cover stuff the mainstream comics wouldn't have the chance to or just don't want to be tied down with canon. So this is just an alt-universe like with Injustice, which is why Superman would be capable of just flying to Apokolips.

As for the page the vast majority of the Tier 2 or 1 scans are either: Wrong, horribly out of context, an amped Superman, or a weakened character they're scaling from.
 
Thank you for the input. Should we close this thread then?
 
@Firestorm

Super minor nitpick: the Astro-Force is Orion's base power, he doesn't need to go into Source of the Beast mode to use it or anything. Every one of his energy blasts is Astro-Force.
 
Absaddie said:
@Qawsed "majority" you say? Which ones aren't so invalid then?
There's some arugments to be made with the Silver Age pocket dimension Kryptionians, but those are also rather inconsistent.
 
I would venture to say that Post-Crisis is at least 3-A by the end of the Final Crisis storyline. Further I think the page warrants a subnote in the Key for the amps (at least boomtube) so that visitors to the page can have a proper understanding of the context for those feats, and in that case he is 2-C.
 
I would like help examining the Red King, Cynthonna, Mordru and Time Trapper, and Blackstarr feats.
 
Apologies, I confused my Crisis storylines. Superman is 3A by the end of Infinite Crisis. At the end of Final Crisis he's at least 2B, but more probably 2A. I'm referencing his surviving inside of the multiversal black hole that was destroying the Orrey of Worlds, and then killing Godhead Darkseid with his voice.

@Firestorm808 - what help would you like? Analyzing the scans for tier level or something else?
 
He's not 2-A during or after Final Crisis. He still struggles with significantly less impressive stuff after that story arc or scales to people much lower than Tier 2.

The site isn't going to upgrade Post-Crisis Superman's base form beyond 4-B any time soon.
 
Both -- 2B/2A is as I mentioned above with his survival in the multiversal Darkseid black hole and subsequent killing of Godhead Darkseid. I just checked his page and that form of Darkseid is regarded as High 2A. It stands to reason in order to kill a being that powerful you need to at least wield a tool capable of doing so; in this case its Superman's voice and not some Supersword. I say 2B or 2A because its unclear, to me at least, if Darkseid is at full power here or a level lower (either way he's still capable of destroying the entire multiverse).

Firestorm - I'll look into some of those characters this week.

Qawsedf - I don't see why not if there is evidence to the contrary, and we properly contextualize if it was via an amp or not. As I said earlier, I think Post-Crisis needs an additional Key element to include at least his boomtube amped tier, and probably sundipped as well.
 
@TheRazama

Unknow | Godhead Darkseid loses his body to a Radion bullet and his Soul to the Black Racer. Once all of humanity is preserved, the last remnant of Darkseid's mind appears to try and claim the Miracle Machine, but Superman is aware that Darkseid's essence vibrates like the multiverse does, and shatters his vibrational frequency with a single note. | Final Crisis Vol 1 #7 March 2009
 
That shouldn't be "Unknown" though. Darkseid clearly, as his page here states, creates/becomes a black hole that is destroying the entire DC multiverse. So he's obviously still at tier 2. Superman then kills that Darkseid.

.Firestorm, I notice you tally the amount of feats at a certain tier. If tier is derived from the mean or mode, then tier 4 makes some sense. But that seems a strange way to do it.

Or is mean/mode feats simply the tier calculation used here for all characters?

EDIT: As I've also mentioned in earlier posts, I don't understand why the Post-Crisis page specifically has only a single tier associated with it. Compare this to Golden Age, Pre-Crisis and Post-Flashpoint who all have at least two tiers for various amps etc. Surely Post-Crisis should have the same?
 
We have had discussions about the Post-Crisis Superman tier plenty of times before, and are not going to upgrade him from a bunch of outliers/inconsistencies. My apologies.

See here for further information: Power-scaling Rules for Marvel and DC Comics
 
Post-Crisis has three permant amps in-universe. Or at least three stated amps.

  • After coming back from the dead he gets stronger
  • He unlocks his mental barriers after training with Mongul II
  • After the one year timeskip when he regains his powers he's stated as being stronger
The first key (Pre-DoS) varies anywhere from 8-C to High 4-C depending on the issue, Post DoS doesn't have much better feats afaik, and the last two are just 4-B.
 
Not really an AP feat. Superman just used counter-vibrations to cancel Darkseid's. Its more like Superman using the way how DC works to defeat Darkseid. He doesnt need to be as strong as him. He only need to figure out how to cancel Darkseid's vibration.

He's done some impressive stuff with vibrations like when he did to that Phantom Planet

"By matching its exact vibration pattern, then reversing it he actually exercised the phantom planet from reality" https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/72524/3342361-5741580904-26303.jpg
 
@Qawsedf & Sandman31

Thank you for helping out.
 
I understand the reasoning for not upgrading his base tier. However, my other major point is that since, for example, Post-Flashpoint has multiple tier listings, with one of them being "2-C after an unknown number of sun dips" why doesn't Post-Crisis have a similar breakdown?

Its the only major continuity variation that doesn't have multiple tiers. And things like being sun-dipped or boomtube amped happened on numerous occasions in the Post-Crisis period (assuredly more than Post-Flashpoint).

Btw thanks all for the civil discussion.
 
If you would like to propose a higher rating unders specific eras or conditions, I would recommend assisting me in documenting and analysing the various Superman feats for my timeline to see if such a consistancy shows.
 
Can you give examples of significant instances when he was specifically amplified by external sources?
 
TheRazaman said:
However, my other major point is that since, for example, Post-Flashpoint has multiple tier listings, with one of them being "2-C after an unknown number of sun dips" why doesn't Post-Crisis have a similar breakdown?
Because post-crisis doesn't have a similar feat.
 
Firestorm808 said:
We have Superman with Strange Visitor (Kistmet) breaking through Imperiex's armor.

Should base Imperiex be upgraded if he contains the energy of multiple galaxies?
I suppose that would be a valid upgrade, although I would be very surprised if the sum total energy contained within multiple galaxies exceed 4-A, or maybe even 4-B.
 
Firestorm808 said:
We have Superman with Strange Visitor (Kistmet) breaking through Imperiex's armor.

Should base Imperiex be upgraded if he contains the energy of multiple galaxies?
The issue with that was thst there was multiple other sources of damage that was targeting a specific spot on Imperiex. Not to mention that Kyle contained the energies long enough for Earth to theoretically teleport it back to Maxima's galactic space
 
Back
Top