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5th strongest 7-A Bracket Round 11 (Gyuliedistodies vs Mukuro Rokudo)

Does Mukuro have any way to overcome low-godly regen?
 
How does he kill someone with illusions?

I get that he can make them kinda real, but how does it kill someone with low-godly regen?


I mean, illusions get negated either way, but I'm curious.
 
Doesn't need to kill.

He could incap via it.

How are illusions negated? Mukuro has several layers of powernull resistance.

And the second someone who can't resist/see through an illusionist's powers is caught in an illusion, the fight's basically over.
 
But how would he incap through it? Illusion don't usually K.O. you.


Power is negated through dragon barriers/field. And to put it like in the last Gyurie treat: Gyuries field can negate negation skills, that can negate negation fields, which can negate negation skills, that can negate negation barriers, that are much more powerful than yet other negation skills.


Also, Gyurie could always teleport into his power negating pocket dimension to escape the illusions.
 
DontTalkDT said:
But how would he incap through it? Illusion don't usually K.O. you.
Click to expand...
Well, KHR illusions control the five senses and even supernatural senses (Via controlling the brain, so it's also mind manipulation). There was a time where Mukuro made people believe they were having an entire fight using all of their abilities (Including a power nulling field), when really they were fighting illusions the entire time while Mukuro was chilling.

There's also a question if real illusions can even be negated since, y'know, they're actual constructs.

Also, before this continue's...What is Gyu~'s win condition?
 
Is it explicitely via controlling the brain? Because Gyurie as a god is more of a sentient soul with a meat puppet than a physical being in common sense. Controlling his physical brain would have limited effect.

Physical illusions would get negated since the illusions that are made physical can not be created in the first place. They would also be rather useless as physical stuff does nothing against low-godly regen.


Since nobody may interfere in the fight I guess one win con is waiting until Mukuro's real body runs out of supplies. Waiting until he dies of age is also a possibility.

That aside Gyurie has shown the capability to search the entire planet in a reasonable amount of time, though by unknown means.

And if we assume that this isn't a planet Gyurie particularly cares about he can start draining the planets energy, slowly killing everything that lives on it and ultimately destroying the planet.

Teleportation can also be done to persons one has seen before even if one doesn't know where they are.

Last, but not least, arguably Mukoro is BFR'd / Incapped if he can't get his illusion clones to approach the battlefield due to them being negated.
 
DontTalkDT said:
Is it explicitely via controlling the brain? Because Gyurie as a god is more of a sentient soul with a meat puppet than a physical being in common sense. Controlling his physical brain would have limited effect.
Click to expand...
It is via controlling the brain as explained, but probably a more metaphysical brain as illusions also work on machines and souls.

Physical illusions would get negated since the illusions that are made physical can not be created in the first place. They would also be rather useless as physical stuff does nothing against low-godly regen.

Okay; two things. 1) What is the range of Gyu's power nulling field (I doubt it's interstellar) 2) How likely is he to use it?

Mukuro starts with an illusion in literally every single fight he's been in that wasn't in the comedic first arc/when he was first introduced.

Also I didn't bring up real illusions to say that they would negate low-godly, I brought them up to say that a possible win condition for Mukuro would be to have Gyu constantly fighting illusions. Since he should be comparable to other characters who can fight using their powers for days at a time.

They could also be made outside of Gyu's field.

Since nobody may interfere in the fight I guess one win con is waiting until Mukuro's real body runs out of supplies. Waiting until he dies of age is also a possibility.

That's not a win condition by SBA standards. That's inconclusive.

That aside Gyurie has shown the capability to search the entire planet in a reasonable amount of time, though by unknown means.

And if we assume that this isn't a planet Gyurie particularly cares about he can start draining the planets energy, slowly killing everything that lives on it and ultimately destroying the planet.

Such an ability is not mentioned on his profile.

Last, but not least, arguably Mukoro is BFR'd / Incapped if he can't get his illusion clones to approach the battlefield due to them being negated.

Very, very questionable. Both him negating illusions and Mukuro being incapped.

In KHR power null resistance is proportional to an individual's strength. (This is gonna get a bit hectic so bear with me.)

Gokudera power nulls DWF barriers which powernull abilities<Gamma resists<<Genkishi is far superior to Gamma and is powernulled by Yamamoto<<Xanxus Powernull's Powernull<Funeral Wraiths resist<Mukuro resist funeral wraith's powernull which should be comparable to Tsuna's powernull which can null the abilities of funeral wraiths<<Byakuran easily powernulls Tsuna's most powerful attack<Tsuna resists after upgrading his ring=Mukuro is comparable to this Tsuna.
 
YungManzi said:
Okay; two things. 1) What is the range of Gyu's power nulling field (I doubt it's interstellar) 2) How likely is he to use it?

Mukuro starts with an illusion in literally every single fight he's been in that wasn't in the comedic first arc/when he was first introduced.

Also I didn't bring up real illusions to say that they would negate low-godly, I brought them up to say that a possible win condition for Mukuro would be to have Gyu constantly fighting illusions. Since he should be comparable to other characters who can fight using their powers for days at a time.

They could also be made outside of Gyu's field.
Click to expand...
1) Should be superior to Shiraori's who can at least affect anything in sight.

2) 100% his first move.

Fighting for days at a time wouldn't be enough for Gyurie, who has near inexhaustible stamina and for whom it was mentioned that a fight against Shiraori could easily take a month. Not that he could force Gyurie to constantly engage, given Gyuries space manip.

Mukuro is more likely to run into stamina problems.

Since nobody may interfere in the fight I guess one win con is waiting until Mukuro's real body runs out of supplies. Waiting until he dies of age is also a possibility. That's not a win condition by SBA standards. That's inconclusive. Typical misconception. Someone once argued something like that said:
Such an ability is not mentioned on his profile.
Click to expand...
I should probably get it added. I just didn't think of it since it's this verses equivalent of saying "can channel lots of mana". Every character can do it to some extent, gods just can do it at an extent that it can have global consequences.

YungManzi"]
Very, very questionable. Both him negating illusions and Mukuro being incapped.

In KHR power null resistance is proportional to an individual's strength. (This is gonna get a bit hectic so bear with me.)

Gokudera power nulls DWF barriers which powernull abilities<Gamma resists<<Genkishi is far superior to Gamma and is powernulled by Yamamoto<<Xanxus Powernull's Powernull<Funeral Wraiths resist<Mukuro resist funeral wraith's powernull which should be comparable to Tsuna's powernull which can null the abilities of funeral wraiths<<Byakuran easily powernulls Tsuna's most powerful attack<Tsuna resists after upgrading his ring=Mukuro is comparable to this Tsuna. [/quote]
That sounds like a chain of "resists and is overpowered by attack above resistance" more than a qualitative scaling.

I mean, the system has resistance stats from 0 to 99 999 and resistance skills from level 0 to 21, with Gyurie scaling above all of that.

So if you want to argue about chains of technique being resisted and said resistance being overcome by stronger techniques we can play that game.

I just don't think that would be a measure of the quality of power null and instead more scaling chains of being overpowered via more power.
 
@DT

Victory Conditions: Killing the opponent, removing the opponent from the battlefield for at least one week (BFR), knocking the opponent out for at least one hour, or incapacitating the opponent by putting him in a state in which he can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day, are to be assumed as victory conditions.

Nothing here says "Waiting for the opponent to die of old age". Even the condition which involves death says "Killing the opponent".

Since there's a lot to go over, I can't respond for the rest of the day and probably for the next couple of days tbh.
 
1) Well it seems like Gyu has a stamina advantage, but range is in Mukuro's favor (Despite what his profile says, he should have Thousands of Kilometers/Planetary range for being able to create illusions on the entire other side of the planet). So whether or not they would start at a range where Gyu could see him is questionable.

2) Not true, see my previous comment.

4) That sounds like a chain of "resists and is overpowered by attack above resistance" more than a qualitative scaling.

I mean...not really...KHR powernull isn't exactly traditional nullification of abilities (Aside from rain flames). Storm Flames disintegrate attacks and Sky flames turn attacks and abilities into stone.

You can't just overpower your attack being turned into stone...
 
Your attacks being petrified is not power null. Well, it can be if used well, but resisting that does not concern proper power null. Them getting "disintegrated" isn't powernull either.

You can't use either to say that he resists a scaling chain worth of powernull at all.

And you can do anything as long as fiction allows it. The idea of just overpowering hax like transmutation and things is the whole deal in things like dragon ball and most novels with heavy haxes I l've read.
 
Also, waiting until someone's stamina runs out always was a fair way to win. It's the whole reason why removing stamina limitations from transformations was noped.

Even without Dark's crt, Gulle running out of stamina is perfectly fine reasoning.
 
Well, both are called power null in the story. And treated as such despite their mechanics. They can petrify/disintegrate black holes and energy beams the same way a rain flame user can nullify them. And people who resist one, automatically resist the other based on how the verse works.

I see it more-so as power nullification which is also hax which would be superior to regular power null; and they have feats of resisting and overcoming resistance of all forms of powernull in the verse.

Honestly, I'm quite confused on what you're arguing here Ricsi...Is your point that because it also involves a differing mechanic that makes it more than regular power nullification, it can't be considered in the powernull scaling?
 
Their mechanics take precedence over their name. And petrifying and disintegrating an enemy's attack is nullifying it by definition, that doesn't mean a power that removes the ability to use them at all is equatable.

That makes no sense. It's not superior, it's another thing completely. That's like saying.

And "feats of resisting and overcoming resistance of all forms of powernull in the verse" only applies to power null feats actually shown.


Yes, I am. Same effect, different means. Burning and freezing someone will kill them, and both could be heat manipulation. A guy resisting one will not resist the other. What you said has nothing to do with how Gulle powernulls, regardless of them being possibly to categorize in the same power. Unless there are feats of plain resisting your abilities being just removed from your physical capability, this isn't working out.


Regardless, the God's scaling chain is better, because "the stronger you are the better you resist" isn't much of a scaling chain compared to his. And your only argument for his resistance being superior is that resisting your power being removed doesn't mean you can resist your attacks being petrified... which works the other way, too.
 
Uh...powernull via removal of powers? How is that on the same level as what I mentioned? You still should have to be physically/magically comparable to the power/ability in order to interact with it (Or else it's NLF), unlike what I mentioned which doesn't have to be physically comparable to an opponent to null abilities....Which is my entire point.

My point was never an equalization issue, that's what you're discussing.

What you're arguing; Sky flame's harmony element isn't comparable to Gull's powernull because it doesn't follow the same mechanics.

What I'm arguing; It's called power nullification in the story and comparable and treated similarly to power null which is similar to Gull's.

If there's this much discussion about this, this might deserve it's own thread tbh.
 
Can you rephrase that..? There is no "levels" here, what you described is a completely different thing than this.

What it's called in the story means jack shit. I know stories where an attack that kicks someone in the ball is called soul crush, it does not mean that if one resist it in-verse then they suddenly resist soul manipulation.

Again, resisting cold and hot are two unrelated things, regardless of both being under Heat Manipulation.


And agai, the god has a better scaling chain so he would bypass regardless.
 
Well, don't know what to tell you.

Mukuro's resistance is completely unrelated to what Gulle does. The two are different things, and without in-verse powernull that works like Gulle's he can't resist it.

He also lacks the stamina to keep the fight up, so eventually Gulle wins regardless.
 
You're argument doesn't make sense to me,

"Mukuro's resistance is completely unrelated to what Gulle does. The two are different things, and without in-verse powernull that works like Gulle's he can't resist it."

I mean, how can you still even argue this?

What it's called in the story means jack shit. I know stories where an attack that kicks someone in the ball is called soul crush, it does not mean that if one resist it in-verse then they suddenly resist soul manipulation.

You ignored half of what I said. Which is why your comment confused me.

Code: 
 It's called power nullification in the story comparable and treated similarly to power null which is similar to Gull's.
If power null which is similar to Gull's exists in the KHR verse and sky flame's harmony is compared to that power null, why can't I use that in the power nullification scaling?

And don't say Gull's powernull is incomparable, because all evidence provided so far suggests that that is not the case.
 
What do you mean all proof suggest the opposite? Gulie removes your "skill", removing your ability to use powers even if they are innate like spiders weaving a web.

Mukuro only resisted abilities that disintegrate and petrify attacks.


The two are immensely different in every way. Gulie makes you unable to physically perform an ability, removing your capability to do it. Mukuro's resistance is his attacks, thing that are already fired, can't be just undone.

One affects your ability to perform an action. The other undoes the effects of you actions. They aren't the same at all.
 
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