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Caulifla v. Present Zamasu

Caulifla actually one shots, Jiren is 110x baseline, due to the size of the universe, and base Caulifla is 220x in base, 11,000x baseline as a Super Saiyan and even higher as a Super Saiyan 2.

RIP
 
Damn, so this is a stomp. I'll change it to Present Zamasu then.
 
Ok imma lowball Caulifla here. As a ssj2 she was equal to a fatigued base Goku. Base Goku went from needing ssbkkx10 to fight Hit to begin equal to him as a ssg. That would mean Goku got 500x stronger over that time. Since the BoG feat is already 220x baseline then that makes Caulifla 110,000x baseline.

Now for Zamasu, he's weaker than ssj2 Goku after the tournament of Destroyers. Goku only needed regular blue against Hit post black arc so pre black arc Goku wouldn't even be 10x stronger. So Zamasu is barely even 22,000x baseline.

Zamasu has the skill advantage but Caulifla's power growth and ability to catch on, like she did with Goku, will make her overcome his skill.
 
Zamasu Chan said:
Caulifla actually one shots, Jiren is 110x baseline, due to the size of the universe, and base Caulifla is 220x in base, 11,000x baseline as a Super Saiyan and even higher as a Super Saiyan 2.
RIP
Click to expand...
Jiren is 110x Baseline?

also Caulifla 1 shots
 
He was referring to Chou Jiren, who I had originally put Caulifla against. Also vote counted.
 
Present Zamasu was destroyed by SS2 Goku. Goku arguably grew over 100x stronger in the Black arc (Base Black could match SS2 Goku, Goku and Vegeta both grew strong enough to match and even surpass SS Rose Black who should be equal in multiplier to SS Blue). Goku then broke his limits via UI -Sign- and grew vastly stronger.

So, Caulifa scales to pressuring a heavily exhausted Base Goku that was over 100 x LB stronger than he was when he stomped Zamasu with SS2. Caulifa adapted enough to pressure Goku into going Super Saiyan 2, who was then pressured into Super Saiyan 3 by the combined power of Kale and Caulifa.

Goku was clearly heavily exhausted, but he grew hundreds, if not thousands, of times stronger since he stomped Zamasu with SS2 and Caulifa scales to forcing an exhausted Goku into using SS2.

SS2 x Over 100X stronger x Limit Break / Exhaustion

We know UI -Sign- is treated as at least 40x on the Wiki, and Goku seemed to still be weaker than UIS1 after using it, so we will say he grew 10x stronger from the first usage of -Sign-.

over 100 x 10 = over 1,000x

How much weaker is he from exhaustion? We will claim he is fighting at 1/100th of his power.

Over 1,000 / 100 = 10

10 x Over 100 (SS2 multiplier) = At least 1,000x

Say Caulifa scales to Exhausted SS Goku, due to only pushing him to use SS2 rather than pressuring SS2 Goku by herself. That means Caulifa is likely in the range of 3-5x stronger than SS2 Goku was when he stomped Zamasu.

tl;dr The math seems to show that Caulifa, lowballed, scales to being a few times stronger than the same Goku that stomped Zamasu and is likely actually dozens of times stronger or more.

My verdict: Caulifa. Arguable stomp due to huge AP difference.
 
@Cryo, just a minor nitpick I wouldn't say that Goku got 100x stronger. Base Goku Black was later god level and his rose form in the anime is just his super saiyan form.
 
Zamasu Chan said:
@Cryo, just a minor nitpick I wouldn't say that Goku got 100x stronger. Base Goku Black was later god level and his rose form in the anime is just his super saiyan form.
Click to expand...
It's a bit hard to say due to SSG returning for no reason in the ToP and the concept of Beyond God seemingly being neglected now. Do you have any sources/quotes where it's indicated that Black was using Beyond God?
 
Alright, seems legitimate (honestly forgot Base Black fought Vegeta Blue as well). So, Beyond God was definitely still around just up to before the Tournament of Power. Goku fighting Buu in Base would also indicate Beyond God existed in the ToP, which brings into question what the difference between Beyond God and Super Saiyan God would be.

Regardless, Blue is God x Super Saiyan and both Vegeta and Goku scale to surpassing Rose Black (before he adapted to them). So they both grew at least 50x stronger in the Black arc it would seem.

Caulifa probably still takes this considering Goku was still over 50x stronger since he fought Zamasu and had limit break power buffing him even further. Even if Goku was fighting at 1% of his power, due to exhaustion, he would have still been above himself against Zamasu.

Considering Zamasu was stomped by SS2 Goku and Caulifa likely scales above that, she should take this with ease either way.
 
I took a look on the Dragon Ball wiki for sources. It says here that Goku and Vegeta need to use Beyond God to even use Blue (which confirms that Base Frieza scales to SSG-level) and in this interview with Toriyama, he states that he didn't want Super Saiyan God to change Goku's appearance in the first place and went with a very minimal change so that viewers could discern the difference between Base and God. He also states in the interview that there is absolutely zero difference between Super Saiyan God and Beyond God.

I'm pretty sure the anime only brought back Super Saiyan God due to people being confused over when Goku and Vegeta were using their God powers and for rule of cool.
 
The SSJ2 Goku who fought Present Zamasu was tens of times weaker than the SSJ2 Goku who was not that much stronger than Caulifla.

So I vote Caulifla if this is not a stomp.
 
Okay, that's five for Caulifla. Two more until grace.
 
I changed my mind in regards to my previous reply. I believe this fight is a massive stomp in Caulifla's favor and shouldn't be added. just my thoughts
 
Caulifla has a really big advantage in AP.

SSJ2 Caulifla is at least comparable to ToP SSJ2 Goku (pre UIS at minimum) and Zamasu is comparable to SSJ2 Goku (Beginning of Black arc).

To show how big of a gap that is, the scaling goes like this: SSJB Goku (ToP) >(40x) SSJG Goku (ToP) > SSJB Goku (Post Black arc) > (likely tens of times) SSJB Goku (Beginning of Black arc), this alone suggest at least a 40x gap if not more. I believe Caulifla is more comparable to Future Zamasu than the Present one.
 
Post UIO1 Goku isn't actually stronger than pre UIO1 though so she would scale to base Goku at the beginning of the tournament. Even Vegeta one shot that girl Cabba needed ssj2 to fight.
 
1- I think post UIO1 Goku is at least somewhat stronger provided he fought Mastered Berserker Kale with only SSJG, and a weaker form of that Kale was really complimented by some strong ToP fighters and Jiren of all people stopped her so I believe she should compare to Pre UI SSJG at least.

2- Vegeta caught Monna off guard though so that shouldn't count. even Monna says that Vegeta attacked her by behind, and even then I don't think it would matter because we are talking about Caulifla's strength here, not Cabba's.

3- So I go by SSJ2 Caulifla being comparable to SSJ2 Goku ToP (by being 70 to 80% of him) as she can hold her own against him and actually makes him use SSJ2. if Caulifla was only comparable to Base Goku then Goku would have just used Base (or SSJ) against her and Kale.
 
Omegas03 said:
Caulifla has a really big advantage in AP.

SSJ2 Caulifla is at least comparable to ToP SSJ2 Goku (pre UIS at minimum) and Zamasu is comparable to SSJ2 Goku (Beginning of Black arc).

To show how big of a gap that is, the scaling goes like this: SSJB Goku (ToP) >(40x) SSJG Goku (ToP) > SSJB Goku (Post Black arc) > (likely tens of times) SSJB Goku (Beginning of Black arc), this alone suggest at least a 40x gap if not more. I believe Caulifla is more comparable to Future Zamasu than the Present one.
Click to expand...
Damn, you're right. Future Zamasu would be a bigger stomp though, since he was comparable to Goku Blue. Ugh, why is it so difficult to find someone Caulifla can fight?

Zamasu Chan said:
Post UIO1 Goku isn't actually stronger than pre UIO1 though so she would scale to base Goku at the beginning of the tournament. Even Vegeta one shot that girl Cabba needed ssj2 to fight.
Click to expand...
How is Post-UIO1 Goku not stronger than Pre-UIO1 Goku? Vegeta only sent Monna flying when he caught her off-guard (also Vegeta > Goku and Caulifla > Cabba, so that comparison doesn't really work). Also Caulifla would scale to SSJ2 Goku, she was actually holding her own against Post-UIO1 SSJ2 Goku, even clashing with him a few times.
 
would SSJ2 Caulifla vs Base Black (after replicating Goku style) be a good fight?

I also believe Omega Shenron or SSJ4 Gogeta could be a good opponent.
 
Post-Goku's Style Black was toying with Vegeta Blue, so I don't think so.
 
Post UIO1 Goku isn't simply because a spirit bomb level attack still made him go UIO. He was repeatedly stated over and over to be fatigued. Kefla as a ssj rivaled the spirit bomb. Ssj2 Kefla only surpassed UIO1 initially. Goku getting stronger would actually make the UIO2 amp smaller than the UIO1 amp. E. T. C!

All of these complications literally could be avoided if we just accepted that Kale and Caulifla, at the time, weren't that strong compared to Goku.
 
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