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A DBZ vs MLP match.

First of all, AP:

Baseline < Celestia < Chrysalis

Super Vegeta (Baseline) < 18 < Piccolo and 17 < Cell

Cell has an advantage on that.
 
Chrysalis has the bigger scaling chain here. A fraction of Celestia's power is already enough to move the Sun. Chrysalis on the other hand can one-shot her with difficulty showing superiority to an unknown extent..

Curb stomping a baseline on the other hand doesn't exactly mean a lot when small power differences can cause curb stomps in Dragonball. Hell, it wouldn't even mean a lot even if that weren't the case since it at most makes you unquantifiably stronger.
 
Baseline < Celestia <(with difficulty) Chrysalis

Baseline <(curbstomp) 18 < Piccolo and 17 <(casually) Cell

She doesn't have the bigger scaling chain, at all.
 
Beating Celestia with difficulties is not higher than being casually above Piccolo and 17, not when Celestia only has a vague "fraction" statement while 18 curbs Super Vegeta.
 
It absolutely is considering a fraction would at the very least make her double baseline. And considering she refers top it as a "small part" of her power as opposed to something as massive as half, and isn't even weakened by it in the slightest, it's probably greater than that.

Considering that said fragment has enough energy to not only ragdoll the Sun (a feat which we were already considering giving Celestia an "at least" for before the statement) but continually do so after having gone haywire, it only makes Celestia that much more powerful. Then Chrysalis goes and one-shots her, with the only drawback being that she struggled to do so; though still strong enough to one-shot regardless..
 
I can see Celestia potentially stomping a baseline, due to the fraction statement, but that's it, there is no indication she is anything above that.
 
You do realize "curbstomps baseline" and "fraction of their power is baseline" are both unknown, right? Celestia and 18 are around the same level or so, with maybe 18 being higher, since we know she can crush baseline, while "fraction" is pretty vague.

Also, curbstomping is not "not even double baseline", it's unknown, same thing with Celestia's statement, they're pretty much on the same boat, it just happens that Cell's scaling goes longer after that.
 
Basically:

Chrysalis beats someone who is above baseline by an unknown amount with difficulties.

Cell casually beats characters who are above someone who is above baseline by an unknown amount.
 
Yet again, you refuse to address how

A. Said fraction was passively ragdolling the Sun on it's own when Twilight broke the amulet and the magic went haywire.

B: It had enough energy to continue doing this long enough for Celestia and Luna to travel back to Canterlot and stop it. This part is especially important since if the fraction were baseline, it wouldn't be able to control the Sun for more than a few seconds as it would run out of power, yet Twilight had to wait until the sisters came and stopped it. This means that even a fraction of Celestia's power is unquantifiably above baseline.

C: Said fraction was so small that Celestia was not bothered at all by it's loss and was able to function completely normally. This means the fraction she used had to have been absolutely tiny for it's loss to have not to affected her.

Celestia may be unquantifiably baseline like Android 18, but it's pretty clear she is higher into "unquantifiable" than she is. What's 18s best feat? Curbstomping a baseline? Cute, call me when hilariously tiny fractions of her power can perform baseline feats and sustain them for periods of time. (which again requires > Baseline power becoause otherwise it would run out of energy to sustain the feat)
 
"Fractions of her power can perform baseline feats" is around the same level as stomping baseline (above it to an unknown amount), maybe a little lower, due to how vague "fraction" is.

Also, mainteining it for long is mostly a stamina feat. proving the character can remain using their energy for a long time without running out of stamina. Doesn't affect AP the much.

It's also worth mentioning that "fraction was so small that Celestia was not bothered at all by it's loss and was able to function completely normally" doesn't say much when 18 was not bothered at all in the fight against Vegeta and was able to function completely normally after the fight was over. Curbstomps are usually extremely casual like that, Celestia's casuality wasn't anything special.
 
Paulo.junior.969 said:
"Fractions of her power can perform baseline feats" is around the same level as stomping baseline (above it to an unknown amount), maybe a little lower, due to how vague "fraction" is.
Also, mainteining it for long is mostly a stamina feat. proving the character can remain using their energy for a long time without running out of stamina. Doesn't affect AP the much.
Click to expand...
In order for said fraction to have no affect on Celestia's strength and health, it would have to be bare minimum half her power. Likely much smaller since half your strength gone is a pretty notable loss.

Um no thats not how magic works or energy in general. The amulet is not a character, it's an item powered by magic. You cannot cast a spell if you don't have enough magic to cast it. If you cast a spell then you use your magic to power it. If you want to cast that spell twice you need to use magic again to cast it, which drains the reserves.

The amulet can only control the Sun and Moon so long as it has enough magic to do so, otherwise it's a hunk of metal. It's ability to control the Celestial bodies is limited to the amount of energy it has. Once it runs out, thats it. In this context, their magic is their stamina; at least as far as spell casting is concerned.
 
Lightbuster30 said:
In order for said fraction to have no affect on Celestia's strength and health, it would have to be bare minimum half her power. Likely much smaller since half your strength gone is a pretty notable loss.
Click to expand...
And? It being an incredible small fraction is also around the same level as curbstomping, since it only takes a small fraction of the character's power to beat the other character when its a curbstomp.

Lightbuster30 said:
Um no thats not how magic works or energy in general. The amulet is not a character, it's an item powered by magic. You cannot cast a spell if you don't have enough magic to cast it. If you cast a spell then you use your magic to power it. If you want to cast that spell twice you need to use magic again to cast it, which drains the reserves.

In this case, their magic is their stamina; at least as far as spell casting is concerned. The amulet can only control the Sun and Moon so long as it has enough magic to do so, otherwise it's a hunk of metal. It's ability to control the Celestial bodies is limited to the amount of energy it has. Once it runs out, thats it.
Click to expand...
Casting the spell again requires the exact same amount of energy as it took the first time, and the feats don't stack on top of each other, they simply become two separate 4-C feats, each of them being baseline.

It is also worth mentioning that all of that would still place her at around 18's level, since all of that only proves Celestia is somehow above baseline by an unknown amount.
 
1. I have two arguments on this point, but since I'd rather not make the argument bigger I think I'll only use the first. Basically: Ragdolling the Sun is already above baseline unquantifiably. Watching the episode, it was controlling the Sun and Moon as easily as Discord and the Storm King, both of whom were zipping them around the sky like a toy. It's not even an attack.

Don't get misinterpret that. I'm not saying the amulet is the same level of power as Discord or the Storm King, but moving the Sun around the way it was is usually portrayed as something casual and effortless. It shows that even for fractions of her power, moving the Sun isn't difficult in the slightest.

2. True, but yet again, it drains your total energy. You have less to cast the spell with. If you repeatedly cast the spell, you will eventually run out of energy to cast it. It's a testament to the total magic the fragment has.

3. Really all of that would only place her around 18s level? Let's get something straight: Not every "unquantifiable" feat is going to be the same. Unquantifiably above baseline means we know the character is above baseline to an unknown degree and thats is. Oneshotting a 5-C is unquantifiable. Another character performing a tier 5-C feat with their presence is also unquantifiable, but ask just about anyone and they'd argue that that the latter character is far more powerful than the former. The former still has to perform an action to oneshot the 5-C. The latter can do it by standing there.

The main point of the above? Not every unquantifiable is going to be the same. Meaning no, Celestia is not in the same level as 18 just because both are unquantifiable.
 
1 - Moving stars at FTL speed is baseline.

2 - Again, that's stamina, doesn't affect AP. Doesn't matter how many times you do a baseline feat, its still a baseline feat.

3 - Yes, around 18's level. Your main argument is that she used "fraction was so small that Celestia was not bothered at all by it's loss and was able to function completely normally", meanwhile, while fighting Vegeta, 18 used such a small fraction of her power that she was not bothered at all during the fight and was able to function completely normally after the fight was over.

Nobody is saying all unquantifiable is the same, its just that all the feats you mentioned do not place her anywhere above 18, they at most make her equal to her, both at the same level of unquantifiable, because literally nothing you've said was all that impressive.
 
1. I didn't say that moving the Sun or other objects at FTL was above baseline by itself. I said that MLP usually portrays zipping the Sun all over the screen at FTL as effortless and easy.

2. Ok, if the fragment has that much total magic, then Celestia using that magic as an attack should use far more magic than the fragment has access to seeing as it's....well a fragment. I said it once and I'll say it again: Their magic stamina is directly linked to how much magic they have.

3. It was not my only argument. You said that she would still be at 18s level even taking into account all the other feats I brought up, like arguments for fragment by itself being unquantifiably above baseline.
 
1 - Yes, you did. Your last comment said "Ragdolling the Sun is already above baseline unquantifiably."

2 - Yes, Celestia is far above the fragment, but I'll say it again: so what? All this proves is that she is unquantifiably above baseline, and once again, this at most places her round 18's level.

3 - The only feats you brought up was "it was a small fraction" (which is 18's level) and "it maintained it for a long time" (which isn't related to AP). So, yeah, that was your only argument, you really didn't bring up anything else.
 
Just for the record, young Celestia and Luna were so powerful that in the The Journal of the Two Sisters, Celestia and Luna were so powerful when they got their cutie marks that they were able to share their magic with everyone who had lost it from moving the Sun. A process that required the magic of 10 ponies per day for years and they weren't tired at all. They basically restored the magic of thousands of low 4-Cs effortlessly.

And before anyone goes: "Oh, but they lost their magic in the process, they aren't low 4-C." Yeah they are, Starswirl is just higher into Low 4-C than they are. In order fot their magic to make any difference and help Starswirl, they'd have to be in the same general tier (but not in the same level of low 4-C). Otherwise, you're basically arguing that Starswirl is a percentage away from complete 4-C.
 
Paulo.junior.969 said:
1 - Yes, you did. Your last comment said "Ragdolling the Sun is already above baseline unquantifiably."

2 - The only feats you brought up was "it was a small fraction" (which is 18's level) and "it maintained it for a long time" (which isn't related to AP). So, yeah, that was your only argument, you really didn't bring up anything else.

3 - We're not talking about Low 4-C, we're talking about 4-C.
Click to expand...
1.) I meant in the context MLP provided. I even followed up "Ragdolling the Sun is already above baseline unquantifiably." with arguing that it was portrayed as casual. My argument was: "Because MLP portrays ragdolling the sun across the screen is portrayed as something casual, then the magic powering the amulet must be doing it casually because it is doing exactly that." I didn't mean to say that moving the Sun FTL alone was unquantifiable.

2.) That wasn't my only argument. I argued that the amulet could passively control the Sun and Moon by itself when it goes haywire (which it did), and argument number 1 in this comment.

3.) Don't play coy. You know damn well the implications of restoring that many Low 4-Cs.
 
Yo guys, please take it easy.

There's no need to get sngry at one another. If you gotta vent your anger, just take a step away from this and cool your nerves. The debate isn't going anywhere.
 
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