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Discussing the Ten Commandments and Meliodas (again).

CinCameron20

CinCameron20

5,107
1,786
  • Could this topic remain open until the arc for the Ten Commandments comes to a close?*
With the most recent chapter of Nanatsu no Taizai, I came to realize something...

Here is the chapter: http://readms.com/r/the_seven_deadly_sins/175/3420/1

First and foremost, I am going to immediately state what tiers each commandment should be listed as before going into the reasoning: Note: I know most of these are already at these tiers, but this thread is to discuss any changes that may be needed or to confirm acceptable tiers.

Likely 6-C: Zeldris (already done), Derrierie, and Estarossa.

High 7-A: Monspeit, Gloxina, Dolor.

7-A or Unknow (having primary focus on hacks or seem to be lacking heavily in the AP/Dura apartment): Merascylla, Graylord, Fraudrin/Dreyfus

I'll get the most obvious ones out of the way first:

Merascylla: scales to Base Galan and her black matter tanked the buffed Ban's (who is 7-A) attacks with little trouble despite her own physical powers being slightly drained from Hunter's Fest. she was one of the only commandments fearing death from Revenge Counter alongside Fraudrin... She primarily uses hacks, so the discussion for her ends right her at the moment.

Gloxina, Monspeit and Dolor: They have Small Island calculations backing their tiers and (excluding Monspeit for this part) could survive an assault from Demon Meliodas, tanking some of his blows with a lot of effort.

Though Gloxina's durability should probably be downgraded to Mountain since, unlike Dolor, he was incapacitated by Escanor and required immediate Regenerationn before he could fight (probably should be listed as Mountain normally, Large Mountain with armor)

Graylord: featless outside of hax, his page is perfectly fine atm.

Now for the more debatable characters.

Dreyfus (aka Fraudrin): He should be listed as being "Possibly 7-A" due to two, maybe three reasons:

1) his attack in the most recent chapter didn't seem to deal significant damage to an injured base meliodas (http://readms.com/r/the_seven_deadly_sins/175/3420/8, http://readms.com/r/the_seven_deadly_sins/175/3420/9) and he has been consistently depicted as a weakling among the Commandments

2) He seemed to be the only Commandment that was completely terrified of Meliodas' "Revenge Counter" and feared for his life while the rest were only mildly or moderately concerned: http://readms.com/r/the_seven_deadly_sins/175/3420/15, http://readms.com/r/the_seven_deadly_sins/175/3420/16

3) His power should only be scaled to the real Dreyfus, who is At least City for his feats against Diane and Gowther -- he may only be slightly superior in power to Dreyfus at this point.

Derrierie: Derrierie was capable of breaking Meliodas' arms while he was in demon form (despite being exhausted) and sent him flying as soon as he went back to his normal state (while Monspeit could hardly damage him with his attack): http://readms.com/r/the_seven_deadly_sins/174/3409/17

She also seems depicted as being one of the superior commandments as she was shown unthreatened by Meliodas' revenge counter and had Monspeit shielding her from rubble: http://readms.com/r/the_seven_deadly_sins/175/3420/11, http://readms.com/r/the_seven_deadly_sins/175/3420/16

She should probably be listed as "Likely 6-C" since she did severely injure Demon Meliodas with little difficulty and overpowered him in base.

Zeldris: We already talked about this. He tanked Meliodas' assault with no problem and removed his arm. Changes already made.

Estarossa: Currently tormenting Meliodas in base and completely canceled out his "Revenge Counter" Aizen-style: http://readms.com/r/the_seven_deadly_sins/175/3420/18

That's all, really... This post should stay up until the arc ends considering I will make another thread with the following chapters when more feats are presented.
 
A few things.

Merascylla is already rated as: "Unknow, Likely 7-A".

About Dreyfus/Fraudin...well Fraudin survived Meliodas strongest attack. (although severely weakened to verge of death).

Dierriere is fine ATM.

Monspiet is a gentleman. (He protects his girl from the rubble).

Estrarossa too OP plz nerf.
 
But this thread mainly focuses on confirming the current listings for the commandments and I hope it doesn't get closed like the others after we're done discussing it simply because this topic is going to last until the arc is concluded.

So yeah, Merascylla should be fine for now on her profile... but her profile picture should be updated to a burnt steak.

Well, Fraudin should have his own page where is his listed as: Unknown | Likely 7-A for "Original" and "as Dreyfus". Dreyfus should have his page edited to remove the Fraudin key and leave a note saying that he should not be confused for the Ten Commandments counterpart.

Is Derrierie fine as High 7-A, or do you mean you accept her potentially being 6-C?

I know Monspeit is a gentleman, but Derrierie seemed so unthreatened even during Revenge Counter.
 
Fraudrin is confirmed weaker than the normal commandments.

Derri should be large mountain tbh, mel was worn out and it is a bit presumptive to do that rn

Estarossa is "at least 6-c" moreso than 6-c

...actually, considering this new information about Estarossa being >>>Meliodas, Escanor + Dolor + Gloxinia might need an upgrade.

Estarossa is now at least 6-C and Escanor matched his power when he struck Dolor + Gloxinia
 
I agree with Alakabamm. Estarossa clearly seems to be the strongest of the 10 commandments, and Escanor was not even at full daylight power when striking Dolor and Gloxinia.
 
So I guess Fraudrin might as well be Mountain level at most considering the obvious difference between him and someone like Gloxina.

It's fine to leave Derrierie at large mountain. was just wondering if it would be a reasonable upgrade. Yes, but that wouldn't scale to Gloxina and Dolor given that Escanor was not at full power when he nearly killed Gloxina and wore Dolor out. Is is confirmed that Estarossa is >>> Meliodas? He may be the strongest, but he is currently only toying with a severely wounded base Meliodas.
 
Well, he effortlessly stopped Meliodas' full counter, that assembled the sum total force of all the ten commandments' attack against him, and possibly amplified it, if I do not misremember.
 
Then yeah, it would be enough to make him at least 6-C, but the sum of all those attacks would still be comfortably on the lower end of Island even if base meliodas amplified it.

Half of the commandments were mildly concerned over the revenge-counter, but only two were completely terrified: The burnt steak (Merascylla) and Fraudrin (the obvious weakling).
 
Don't you remember the quote from Dolor and Gloxinia? They said Escanor's attack was on Estarossa's level. The weakened Escanor amped with Rhitta
 
I found the quote, but should Estarossa really be "at least 6-C" just for casually stopping Revenge Counter (the sum of all of the attacks taken are no higher than a few dozen Gigatons and being amped up by Meliodas in base wouldn't do all that much... the only commandments really life-threatened by it are the weaklings -- the rest likely only being injured by it)?

Having both Estarossa and Escanor at "At least 6-C" is okay, but I'd prefer more feats before upgrading them.

I disagree with Gloxina and Dolor being upgraded especially when the former was about to die immediately after the attack and the latter could barely move. They only have comfortable Small Island feats atm anyways. I'd like to wait for more feats from the Ten Commandments before upgrading Escanor, Glox, Dolor especially since Estarossa's only feat was stopping Revenge Counter, which might not have killed more than two of the commandments (Merascylla, Fraudrin and potentially Graylord -- aka the weaklings of the group).

I just realized that Meliodas was making quick work of an injured Dolor while in base. I believe Base Meliodas should lose the "7-A" and be "Likely High 7-A" considering he tanked an attack from Gloxina in her armor and took all of Dolor's arms. He also easily beat Base Galan (caving half of his face in) with casual effort and tanked Monspeit's fire bird while already injured, so Meliodas should be upgraded to High 7-A in base.

Another thing to support High 7-A base Meliodas is that, while injured, he tanked Gloxina's attack, which was the one calc'd to be 3+ Gigatons.
 
Gloxinia's attack was taken by a Wrath Meliodas, check the scans again.

Dolor and Gloxinia were weakened.

Firebird thing...maybe more durability, but I think I already put "likely"
 
Actually, Meliodas tanked the 3+ GT attack while in Base as i said, but in the most recent chapter: http://www.***********.net/nanatsu-no-taizai/175/9, http://www.***********.net/nanatsu-no-taizai/175/11

I know they were weakened, but doesn't removing Dolor's arms and overpowering him with little difficulty support him being Small Island?
 
Estarossa is currently rated as "At least High 7-A. Likely 6-C."

However, weakened Escanor, who is supposedly equal to Estarossa, is only rated as: "At least 7-A unarmed. At least High 7-A with Rhitta", and full power Escanor as: "Likely 6-C. Higher with Rhitta."

(By the way, aren't their names kind of similar? Perhaps there is some kind of intended connection?)
 
Hmm, Escanor's name comes from Arturian myth...unsure where Estarossa is from.

The new stats should be:

Estarossa: At least 6-C (stopped Meliodas' revenge counter with one hand)

Escanor:

Weakened: At least 7-A unarmed (said to have an equal power level to Gala), at least 6-C with Rhitta (said to have an equal power level to Estarossa)

Early Morning: At least High 7-A (easily beat the vampire king, stomped CO Gala), higher with Rhitta

Noon: At least 6-C (said to be more powerful than Meliodas), higher with Rhitta
 
Well, demon Meliodas was calculated as 6-C. Estarossa is considerably more powerful, and even weakened Escanor (with Rhitta) is equal to Estarossa, so I suppose that your new statistics are better than the old ones.
 
"at least" implies they are vastly stronger and almost reaching into the next tier. thats way too much. the tc in all are just double digit GT which is still a long way to go to even triple digit, let alone reaching a new tier

also derriere should be placed as 6c since she overpowered a demon meliodas and made his transformation undone with her powers, as well as looking not too shocked from the revenge counter. she looks like a higher tier for the TC

galan as well in CO needs the 6c scaling since he actually damaged escanor

also: we never saw escanor at noon as well
 
OK, I made some changes, keeping this thread open if CinCameron wants to propose anything else
 
alright, then take out "at least." It holds a different implication to me personally, since our tiering system doesn't rely on any assumptions

Derr was pretty much fighting an exhausted Mel though...Island level may be too much

I don't know if a tiny scratch that wasn't even blocked and at full power counts though

We currently lack an Escanor noon key, yes
 
you should also change dreyfus / fraudrin to dreyfus / fraudrin possesed

since its clear he just abuses this body
 
derriere still had the most impressive feats from all the TC outside zeldris and estarossa

to put in in perspective, gloxinia and dolors attacks on wrath meliodas accomplished close to nothing. derriere on the other hand caused lasting damage on both the physical (his crippled arms) and the mental level (undone his transformation)

while she may not be on par with meliodas in a clean fresh out of the room mode, she achieved a similar feat like zeldris - just that the former did it first. a difference in power is not only just displayed with different tiers.
 
gloxinias attack ripped his arm of AFTER his transformation was undone.

gloxinias attack did nothing when he was in wrath mode.

whereas derrieres affected him when he was in demon

he also was not "sort of damaged" - the only damage he got was zeldris cutting off and he re-attaching his arm at that point. grayroad only kept him from fleeing
 
He still got damaged by Gloxinia's attack...he was scratched up when he came flying back. Dolor also hurt him too. I'm not saying they took him out but they did enough to the point where another demon should be capable of hurting him like that.
 
well if you take a look at the beginning of the chapter 174 he was perfectly fine shape wise. his body was not roughed up in the slightiest. all the damage he received during the fight with dolor and gloxinia by no means were depicted to be on a level that it would actually threaten him.

but when he clashed with derrier this is where he started to get actual significant bruises. a few scratches from a full frontal non-blocked hit from gloxina can not be compared to an actively blocking meliodas whose defense got crushed by derriere alongside with the physical effects, the mental damage and the hype surrounding the whole "second to withstand 50 hits" which i think means only estarossa took 50 hits as well..

thats more than enough on panel feats, statements and implications to give derriere a standing above the likes of dolor and glox.
 
So, can anyone summarize up the proposed changes in mind? I'll edit those in once I get back I suppose.

@Alakabamm: That seems reasonable. What's Estarossa Raven rated at here?
 
I already made most of the edits beside from what Raven mentioned

I think Escanor is more powerful than Estarossa Raven, or should at least beat him
 
I support Derrierie's upgrade to Island, but we should leave it as "Likely" for now since, as Alaka said earlier, Meliodas was worn out and, as shown in the chapter, he lost his demon mode immediately after the assault. It isn't a guarenteed Island level feat, but I say it's enough to consider it.

I'm still trying to shed some light on High 7-A Base Meliodas especially since he survived Gloxina's 3.5GT attack while already severely injured. He only lost an arm and could still move afterwards. He has plenty of support to give him that tier and here is a list of reasons I have:

1) He easily outmatched Base Galan, caving in half of his face while in base.

2) He easily outmatched an injured Dolor, and even removed two of his arms with each swing of his sword.

3) He tanked Gloxina's Form Five armor while in base while receiving very little damage, and he also survived her 3.5 GT attack whilst already injured from fighting the TC beforehand

4) He also tanked Monspeit's firebird (which a different form of that attack yielded a Small Island amount of energy) and proceeded to nearly decapitate Monspeit immediately afterwards.

5 (this one doesn't matter cus trash TC member)) He tanked Fraudrin's blast while already injured.

I say that Dreyfus has the Fraudrin key completely removed and we have a page for Fraudrin made for: "Likely 7-A | Unknow" for "Key: Possessing Dreyfus | Original body"

@Raven --

I do not support the 6-C upgrade for CO Galan given that I see him in the same light as Gloxina and Dolor. and besides, his strongest attack only broke Escanor's skin: http://www.***********.net/nanatsu-no-taizai/149/17 and he had 0 confidence when it came to surviving Escanor's attack. Can we really suggest that he is in the same tier as Escanor in the morning?

A High 7-A character can damage a 6-C character, but Galan came short of doing some actual damage. He only got through Escanor's skin.

So for right now, here is what I'm assuming to be the tiers for the ten commandments at this point:

6-C: Estarossa, Zeldris

Likely 6-C: Derrierie

High 7-A: Monspeit, CO Galan, Dolor, Gloxina

7-A OR Unknow: Fraudrin, Merascylla, and Graylord.

And for Meliodas: Base = High 7-A for the reasons above, and his Demon Form obviously being 6-C
 
i agree on the galan part. unless we get a new calc on his shockwave he likely stays at 7a.

however merascylla is "at least 7a with her dark matter", since she tanked amped bans strikes and galans CO shockwave without any form of damage

however physically she stated she is no fighter. meaning its both. unknown physically and at least 7a with dark matter

fraudrin and grayloard both unknown. way to much in the dark for them atm

leading us to:

6c: estarossa, zeldris

likely 6c: derrier (we dont have to kid ourselves tho - everyone will treat it as guaranteed 6c, meaning in terms of vsbattles it makes no difference)

"at least high 7a" monspiet, dolor, glox, co galan, merascylla with her dark matter manipulation

unknown: fraud, gray
 
Why "at least high 7-a"?

Co Galan and Monspeit both have feats that, iirc, are around 2 GT and Gloxina is the highest among the listed, but her calc is a 3.5 GT blast, which still isn't quite at the high end of high 7-A.

... I forgot Merascylla was present during the CO slash from Galan. I guess she should be listed as Unknown physically, High 7-A with Black Matter given she did tank the shockwave from CO Galan.

I'd like for Dolor's durability to include his heavy metal and list it as "likely Island" since he completely blocked out one of Demon Meliodas' enchanted blade attacks. http://www.***********.net/nanatsu-no-taizai/173/4

By the way, another topic on Escanor. When he attacked Dolor and Gloxina, his power level (before wielding Rhitta) was 28,800, and Glox said he was stronger than Galan (at least his base form), who was 40,000 in CO. I just thought I'd point that out o_O
 
the 3.5 GT came from the very first form of glox spirit spear, she has not exerted herself when she did it. talking while firing it. if you can pump out 3.5 while looking down at your opponent with a finger how likely is it you can do another 0.7GT when pushing in a little more effort?

in fact, it is actually even pushing "likely island" level territory which starts at 4.3 GT

so "at least" is a fair bet

galans base form is 26k but only when he is completely emptied.
 
What does "first form" have to do with its power? If anything, her spear form is the highest attack potent of the shown forms. The power doesn't increase from Form one to five. It's a matter of versatility. Her first form is the spear while the fifth is armor:

Form one = her happy nuke toy

Form four = flower -- Drop of life -- used for Regenerationn

Form five = her armor which is shown enhancing her physical defense and offense

Well, if you insist on it being his casual effort (which I only find being the case for her 2nd blast with it), then I guess her being "At least High 7-A" is fine, but the durability should not scale up especially given that one punch from Meliodas temporarily crippled him and a couple blows after being healed was enough to leave him wounded.

Which reminds me... can a calc be done on the 2nd blast? we have a clear shot of it, but I don't know how do-able it is: http://www.***********.net/nanatsu-no-taizai/175/10
 
i may have wordet it not appropriat. the first form was meant as the very first form used for actual combat with an actual feat. according to every shonen rule he doesnt spam its best attack all the way as opener, inbetween, finisher etc. its just a generic energy blast he can rely on with a rather impressive but not too great amount of AP

i understand that the word "form" may have been misleading in terms of a fighter who actually uses different "forms" when he fights tho...

since she is a fairy her durability should be significantly lower than her AP - just like king who physically once lost to a cat who stole his food..

the second blast looks way more impressive and i might calc it. or not. i get overrun with calc request atm, whereas NNT finally is pretty set in terms of tiering
 
I see the blast is pretty much just outside of the maze area, but it looks pretty hard to scale and might yield a lower force because it just looks like a giant flash of light with small debris being brought up.
 
@Raven -- what would you propose for Gloxina's durability? I would suggest him being at the very least Mountain durability, and at least Small Island with the form five armor.
 
wait. where do you guys got the idea they are outside of the maze? they are still inside and around the center. only the earth around them got ravaged
 
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