-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Type 5 Acausality vs Higher-D hax
- Thread starter Yobo_Blue
- Start date
- 5,554
- 2,329
Well type 5 Acausality means being above the concept of time so higher D hax shouldn't work on it. And Concept type 2 is dodgy to work on it, but people agree that it works so oh well.
- 1,305
- 613
I don't think so. No unless said Higher-D Hax has a Reality-Fiction interaction in between, which isn't that unusual.
- 5,554
- 2,329
Being type 5 requires you to be above the Platonic Concept of time. So yes, all type 5 acausals are type 5 "on a 1-A scale".Yobo Blue said:
- 31,701
- 5,478
- Thread starter
- #8
Type 5: Causality Transcendence: Characters with this type of Acausality transcend the normal boundaries of cause and effect, existing outside of the causality of a system. Even interacting with them normally may prove virtually impossible.
Nowhere does it require it to transcend it platonically. If it did, Type 5s would be uncontested in being unaffected by Type 2 concept manipulation, which is not platonic.
Nowhere does it require it to transcend it platonically. If it did, Type 5s would be uncontested in being unaffected by Type 2 concept manipulation, which is not platonic.
- 5,554
- 2,329
Pretty sure it does, because unless you don't you would be type 4.
- 19,246
- 2,685
type 5 acausality does not require being 1-A
just being above the concept of causality is enough for it. Not the "platonic concept of causality" just "the concept of causality".
@DMB
if you can be interacted with after being stated to transcend causality, that's not suddenly an anti-feat for you, just an interaction feat for whoever did so.
just being above the concept of causality is enough for it. Not the "platonic concept of causality" just "the concept of causality".
@DMB
if you can be interacted with after being stated to transcend causality, that's not suddenly an anti-feat for you, just an interaction feat for whoever did so.
- 5,554
- 2,329
Well you can get a mod to comment, because to my knowledge it does.
- 19,246
- 2,685
The authority of the person saying something means nothing. You can look at the matches or even just the page of literally anyone who has type 5 acausality and you will see that being 1-A is not a requirement for that.
- 1,305
- 613
I think my brain just blue-screened trying to solve this.
Most serious philosophical and scientific sources don't bother to include 19012 Dimensions and 12314 Reality-Fiction Interactions on their explanation. It's only Spatial Dimensions and Time, and anything outside of that would technically be what we consider 1-A, but Fiction just doesn't work like that.
Most serious philosophical and scientific sources don't bother to include 19012 Dimensions and 12314 Reality-Fiction Interactions on their explanation. It's only Spatial Dimensions and Time, and anything outside of that would technically be what we consider 1-A, but Fiction just doesn't work like that.
- 6,014
- 2,122
Type 5 Acausality mean that you're beyond causality itself, everything that work on a causality effect no longer affect you basically, you're immunet to everything that use causality (so everything in the world).
This is not a requierment for 1-A, you could be 7-A and transcend causality, you're still 7-A and you have type 5 Acausality, it not depend on dimension but on the idea as Transcend Time doesn't mean that you're beyond all temporal dimensions, beyond causality don't mean that you're beyond this idea from all dimensions.
This is not a requierment for 1-A, you could be 7-A and transcend causality, you're still 7-A and you have type 5 Acausality, it not depend on dimension but on the idea as Transcend Time doesn't mean that you're beyond all temporal dimensions, beyond causality don't mean that you're beyond this idea from all dimensions.
Wokistan
Bioluminescent African American Working At The CIA
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
- 16,919
- 7,368
It was probably intended to be 1-A only, but it isn't.
Unsure about the higher dinensuonna stuff working, more power wouldn't just let you hit something like that. Reason type 2 concept works is because those types of concepts would be acausal on this scale themselves, thus changing them changes that which participates in it in all times, retroactive and whatnot.
Unsure about the higher dinensuonna stuff working, more power wouldn't just let you hit something like that. Reason type 2 concept works is because those types of concepts would be acausal on this scale themselves, thus changing them changes that which participates in it in all times, retroactive and whatnot.
Wokistan
Bioluminescent African American Working At The CIA
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
- 16,919
- 7,368
There's no real reason to do such though. I could occupy like 86 extra spatial dimensions and follow the same temporal axis. I could occupy several other axes of time and still follow some sort of causal system.
Wokistan
Bioluminescent African American Working At The CIA
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
- 16,919
- 7,368
Well in short i do not necessarily think they would just like higher dimensional attacks can't necessarily interact with concepts on lower levels. 1-A stuff would but that's 1-A stuff anyways. If one can interact with concepts of such quality I would be okay with saying their other abilities probably work fine on the type 5, unless it's soms sorta specific type 2 concept manop power
Udlmaster
They/Them- 6,925
- 2,128
Okay, to explain in a more scientific way besides an argument from power;
No, higher dimensions don't bypass type 5, think of it like this:
No matter how many dimensions I have, punching someone still hurts, this is a level of cause and effect that goes throughout all dimensions, it doesn't matter how many dimensions you have, and the same goes for everything else, this is because Spatial Dimensions are just vectors of movement, in real life, higher dimensions aren't superior to lower dimensions, just that it adds another spatial dimension to reality.
As for Type 2 (Platonic concepts) that's more so Metaphysical and philosophical, and is based on Platonism and the Form of Good (The Theory of Forms) where Plato wrote in the Timaeus that they were Aspatial and Atemporal:
That they were beyond temporal matters and they were beyond space as they where MetaMental/Metaphysical and existed on their own Transcendent plane of existence where all ideals and the Archetypes come from, these Platonic forms where beyond all change, cause and effect:
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/592374442496098315/592375183390670849/image0.jpg
As for 1-A beings, they would function beyond cause and effect by virtue of them transcending the concepts of time and space, and because of such, the laws of existence and such would be entirely unimaginable.
No, higher dimensions don't bypass type 5, think of it like this:
No matter how many dimensions I have, punching someone still hurts, this is a level of cause and effect that goes throughout all dimensions, it doesn't matter how many dimensions you have, and the same goes for everything else, this is because Spatial Dimensions are just vectors of movement, in real life, higher dimensions aren't superior to lower dimensions, just that it adds another spatial dimension to reality.
As for Type 2 (Platonic concepts) that's more so Metaphysical and philosophical, and is based on Platonism and the Form of Good (The Theory of Forms) where Plato wrote in the Timaeus that they were Aspatial and Atemporal:
That they were beyond temporal matters and they were beyond space as they where MetaMental/Metaphysical and existed on their own Transcendent plane of existence where all ideals and the Archetypes come from, these Platonic forms where beyond all change, cause and effect:
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/592374442496098315/592375183390670849/image0.jpg
As for 1-A beings, they would function beyond cause and effect by virtue of them transcending the concepts of time and space, and because of such, the laws of existence and such would be entirely unimaginable.
Udlmaster
They/Them- 6,925
- 2,128
False Platonic are Platonic in all aspects besides the fact that they're not 1-A, I'm not sure why I have to say this, this should be common knowledge by now.Yobo Blue said:
>And no Udl, we are not using Higher Dimensions the way they work in real life, but the way we treat them here based on their usage in fiction.
And all our uses of higher dimensions are predicated on Dimensions as they are in real life, which is why we don't allow for Quantum theory being reason for 10-D, as they function on a very tiny level of existence. We use real life examples of philosophy and science to lay the foundation of the very idea of vsdebating.
>Hence, punching someone a dimension above you will not hurt, because they are completely transcendent of you.
Okay? No, Matthew actually created a thread about this and how just by being Higher Dimensional doesn't mean you get the Higher-D power as the scaling system uses it, as you could be an 11-D Human, in all aspects, the only difference is that you can see/move in 11 dimensions instead of 3.
- 6,452
- 1,667
So, question someone said simplely being beyond/transcendtal to time/4th dimension on of a multiversal scale grants type 5 Acausality. is that true?
Wokistan
Bioluminescent African American Working At The CIA
VS Battles
Administrator
Calculation Group
- 16,919
- 7,368
That's actually subject to change soon, where the fiction needs to actually establish dimensions more akin to higher infinities as opposed to how they actually are. Type 2 being false platonic is false more because it's not 1-A as opposed to anything else, it'd still share platonic traits but not on that sort of scale.
- 31,701
- 5,478
- Thread starter
- #36
False Platonic are Platonic in all aspects besides the fact that they're not 1-A, I'm not sure why I have to say this, this should be common knowledge by now.
>And no Udl, we are not using Higher Dimensions the way they work in real life, but the way we treat them here based on their usage in fiction.
And all our uses of higher dimensions are predicated on Dimensions as they are in real life, which is why we don't allow for Quantum theory being reason for 10-D, as they function on a very tiny level of existence. We use real life examples of philosophy and science to lay the foundation of the very idea of vsdebating.
>Hence, punching someone a dimension above you will not hurt, because they are completely transcendent of you.
Okay? No, Matthew actually created a thread about this and how just by being Higher Dimensional doesn't mean you get the Higher-D power as the scaling system uses it, as you could be an 11-D Human, in all aspects, the only difference is that you can see/move in 11 dimensions instead of 3.
This is true, but the fact that's it's not 1-A makes a huge difference when quantifying dimensions and power
That's actually a counterpoint, as Quantum Theory not being treated on that level here is a good example of us not using real life dimensions as something that would actually count,
Yes, but if you are provably transcendent that doesn't matter.
>And no Udl, we are not using Higher Dimensions the way they work in real life, but the way we treat them here based on their usage in fiction.
And all our uses of higher dimensions are predicated on Dimensions as they are in real life, which is why we don't allow for Quantum theory being reason for 10-D, as they function on a very tiny level of existence. We use real life examples of philosophy and science to lay the foundation of the very idea of vsdebating.
>Hence, punching someone a dimension above you will not hurt, because they are completely transcendent of you.
Okay? No, Matthew actually created a thread about this and how just by being Higher Dimensional doesn't mean you get the Higher-D power as the scaling system uses it, as you could be an 11-D Human, in all aspects, the only difference is that you can see/move in 11 dimensions instead of 3.
This is true, but the fact that's it's not 1-A makes a huge difference when quantifying dimensions and power
That's actually a counterpoint, as Quantum Theory not being treated on that level here is a good example of us not using real life dimensions as something that would actually count,
Yes, but if you are provably transcendent that doesn't matter.
- 6,198
- 16,506
"Higher-Dimensional Hax" is an ultra vague label that doesn't even make sense realistically, but since we are basically using "lol dimenshuns" as a label for literally anything above Tier 3/2 even if it has jackshit to do with actual Dimensions at this point, then I'd say it depends.
Someone who can control and affect say, the universe/multiverse from the perspective of a higher plane from which it is fiction would certainly be able able to affect a Low 2-C or 2-A Type 5 Acausal. I don't think the same can be said for someone who can mindhax a higher-order entity of a much lower scale than said Type 5 Acausal.
Someone who can control and affect say, the universe/multiverse from the perspective of a higher plane from which it is fiction would certainly be able able to affect a Low 2-C or 2-A Type 5 Acausal. I don't think the same can be said for someone who can mindhax a higher-order entity of a much lower scale than said Type 5 Acausal.
Udlmaster
They/Them- 6,925
- 2,128
This is gonna be the last time I respond tonight, as I'm going to sleep, it's 5 AM;
>This is true, but the fact that's it's not 1-A makes a huge difference when quantifying dimensions and power
It only diminishes it's power, all it's traits are independent of each other, they all can stand alone, so the aspatial and temporal doesn't change any of their traits.
>That's actually a counterpoint,
It's really not.
>as Quantum Theory not being treated on that level here is a good example of us not using real life dimensions as something that would actually count,
I'm not sure if you understood what was actually said, in quantum physics, they don't treat dimensions are infinitely superior, this is a case where real world examples over rules any changes the fiction makes, as it's predicated on The Quantum interpretation which just treats it as a vector of movement, not as a Transcendent reality.
This is a case of it working only for me.
>Yes, but if you are provably transcendent that doesn't matter.
What do you mean? Provably Transcendent doesn't equate to dimensions, if the verse treats higher dimensions as higher realities, that's fine, but as it is predicated on the same thing, the same basis, as it would require or it isn't dimensions, it would follow the same logic. If the same logic didn't apply then they wouldn't be Dimensions they would be something else like Transcendent plane or reality.
>This is true, but the fact that's it's not 1-A makes a huge difference when quantifying dimensions and power
It only diminishes it's power, all it's traits are independent of each other, they all can stand alone, so the aspatial and temporal doesn't change any of their traits.
>That's actually a counterpoint,
It's really not.
>as Quantum Theory not being treated on that level here is a good example of us not using real life dimensions as something that would actually count,
I'm not sure if you understood what was actually said, in quantum physics, they don't treat dimensions are infinitely superior, this is a case where real world examples over rules any changes the fiction makes, as it's predicated on The Quantum interpretation which just treats it as a vector of movement, not as a Transcendent reality.
This is a case of it working only for me.
>Yes, but if you are provably transcendent that doesn't matter.
What do you mean? Provably Transcendent doesn't equate to dimensions, if the verse treats higher dimensions as higher realities, that's fine, but as it is predicated on the same thing, the same basis, as it would require or it isn't dimensions, it would follow the same logic. If the same logic didn't apply then they wouldn't be Dimensions they would be something else like Transcendent plane or reality.
Similar threads
