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Broly V.S Jiren

Kople700

Kople700

407
26
I haven't been keeping up with a lot of the new calcs and changes to DB characters. Mostly I just want to know if this would be a stomp or not. Or if this has been discussed to death already.

Super Saiyan Broly V.S Limit Breaker Jiren Speed Equalized (Is this even necessary? It's dragonball lmao) Battle takes place in the arena that was used for the universal tournament. Except there are no restrictions on flying or such.

Who wins and why?
 
Da heck? Who is Jiren fighting Gogeta or Broly?

Anyway, Gogeta vs Jiren the fusion will stomp

LSSJ vs Jiren could go either way.
 
Oops! So sorry for the confusion. It's meant to be ssj brody v.s limit breaker jiren. I'll fix that!
 
SSJ Broly is comparable to Limit Breaker Jiren in terms of AP but Jiren has better fighting experience ( fought MUI Goku )
 
Paradisum said:
SSJ Broly is comparable to Limit Breaker Jiren in terms of AP but Jiren has better fighting experience ( fought MUI Goku )
Click to expand...
SSJ broly is NOT comparable to LB Jiren. Or are you talking about LSS Broly, who should be around that tier of power
 
I find this match to be weird. LSSJ Broly is above UBW Jiren, but UBW Jiren is above SSJ Broly by a large margin. So no matter how you look at it, this match is wrong.
 
Goku's statement vs 5 statements from other sources hinting Broly as either SSJ or LSSJ is at least somewhat on the same level as Jiren [Whether referring to Base of UBW Jiren is something to debate about though]... I don't take Goku's statement seriously at all.
 
The 2nd Existential Seed said:
Goku's statement vs 5 statements from other sources hinting Broly as either SSJ or LSSJ is at least somewhat on the same level as Jiren [Whether referring to Base of UBW Jiren is something to debate about though]... I don't take Goku's statement seriously at all.
Click to expand...
I actually have a blog about this if you wanna check it out, it mainly focuses on Goku though, however you can put two and two together.
 
ZERO7772 said:
If you ignore the promo stuff the only info we have on Jiren in the anime is that he's stronger than Belmod, a LOT stronger than Belmod who is likely inferior to Beerus who Broly is probably stronger than.
Click to expand...
I'm also sure in the Manga Toppo said that Jiren is stronger than Belmod in skill alone.
 
Actually that's true, Toppo specifically mentioned Skills alone and not power overall.

The idea of Jiren being above every GoD is absurd. That also means manga UI is still weaker than Beerus and Belmod considering Jiren BS his way through with sheer power alone
 
SSFP Broly is comparable to Beerus. Belmod is stronger than Beerus. Base Jiren is stronger than Belmod. "Might be stronger" implies that he's around the same level, but it also summons the "not sure" kind of thing. Broly is strong enough to be comparable, but not strong enough to be listed as the absolute CHAD between the two of them.

Base Jiren > Belmod > Beerus ?=? SSFP Broly.

The magazine that said "Broly is stronger than Jiren" is not reliable. First of all, it doesn't even include a person who works for TOEI (even if it did, we also have the issue below), it's just opinion-based. The magazine is from a group of magazines that only use the opinion of the people working behind the magazine. This group has also been responsible for straight up lying about Gogeta and Vegetto back in 1995.

The Saikyo Jump editorial office tells readers: "Frankly, the enemy Goku and co. are up against in this movie is the strongest. Those who trust Goku will win may lose confidence, so be careful." They also ask: "Destructive power greater than a God of Destruction?!" - Herms

>The Saikyo Jump editorial office.

The director of DBS Broly proved to be a questionable source of information too. His words "Goku is already pretty close to being a god, and Vegeta is desperately trying to catch up." Goku refuses to become a god in his first 5 minutes into the movie. Vegeta is getting stronger to fight Freeza, not desperately trying to catch up to Goku. Goku and Vegeta were also portrayed to be at the same level.

Magazines wise, even Vegetto from DBZ is stronger than SSJ4 Goku.

Anime wise, base Jiren still has a greater AP when compared to SSFP Broly.
 
"However, there is a universe where lives a mortal even a God of Destruction can't defeat. That God of Destruction happens to be stronger than Beerus"

If you're a master of English, you might be able to twist that into some shape that doesn't spell Belmod > Beerus (in terms of raw strength). It's true that hand-to-hand combat is far different than arm wrestling, but you're gonna need more stamina and strength to beat your opponent.

This is not the absolute proof to put Belmod above Beerus, or vice-versa (lack of evidence). GoD are also always portrayed to be at the same level, they are always put into the same group when it comes to power level, not as individuals stronger than one another. IIRC Belmod was the only one portrayed as stronger when compared to another GoD. That's why I think Belmod would be slightly superior to Beerus. Beerus always sleeping and doing nothing also corroborates with this, apparently Belmod isn't a useless piece of shit.

I can't remember most of the stuff; forgive me if I'm talking shit.
 
Arm wrestling isn't even 100% strength based so I don't need to twist any words. Whiss also stated that Jiren could surpasses the GoDs when Jiren was using 1% of his power despite having no way of knowing Jiren's true strength so he was just doing guess work at best.

No one is stroger than Beerus unless proven within the actual show.
 
What does that make him? Quarter angel? The term "GoD level" is being tossed around too much these for it to have much meaning.
 
GoD arm wrestling isn't human real world arm wrestling. Whis knew Jiren would be in the ToP. Whis was talking about Jiren in general, even the other gods saw that Jiren was far from full power and had feats far above other fighters. Whis simply put those pieces together.

"No one is stroger than Beerus unless proven within the actual show."

Saitama ok
 
Whiss statement is just too vague and goes against everything the arc establish later. ep 110 Jiren can't be GoD level or Blue Goku and Vegeat would be stomping all GoDs asses to double sunday by now. Maybe Whiss we just estimating his "Full Power", but then again, Whiss has no way of knowing Jiren's true strength so his words are not trust worthy.
 
Not only Whis but Angels in general already showed to be very smart, when Goku was fighting Jiren for the first time, where Jiren wasn't using his full power, Whis already noted that he was at least as strong as a GoD, I'll go with his words

MUI Goku and Shirtless Jiren should be already stronger than them, at the very least
 
It's super rare to see you in DB disscusions Dante. How are you doing btw?

I never said Jiren is not GoD level, just the assumption of Jiren being THAT far above GoDs is absurd. He's only Beerus tier at Full Power. He have that PTSD form going on but meh. I would assume it has as much effect on the narrtive as SSBKK.
 
Ki control is a thing on DB's universe, my guy.

GoD are always put into the same group when it comes to power level. They never mention a specific GoD, because they're all probably at the same level. It was said that Beerus was stronger than Champa, and if Beerus was indeed stronger, it wasn't by a big margin since they were evenly matched.

"Toppo is no different than a GoD"

"Vegeta surpassing the gods"

"He reached that level. Perhaps even surpassed it"

Examples of they never mentioning a single GoD's name when comparing an warrior to a GoD.
 
So Vegeat is stronger than Beerus by your logic? Good to know.

>Ki control is a thing on DB's universe, my guy.

No Shit. Whiss still have no way of knowing Jiren's FP.
 
Yeah right ? I think i'm too much on DMC so I'm starting to post for other verses, DB is one of my favorites by far lol, I'm doing great, and you ?

I agree that Jiren don't stomp GoDs, I guess we can say (at least I say) that he's is above them, but it's not that big gap, while Broly, as Goku said, it's only on "possibly"

Going by that, I guess Jiren would win for a little ap advantage, but most importanly, he have a skill, experience and ability advantage
 
What happens is that DB appears to use "lol he's on GoD level" but then this is retconned, Vegeta surpassing Beerus with SSEvolution is meh, but they stated that Toppo was at GoD level and Vegeta slapped him

And wasn't Broly stated to be the strongest foe ever ? If he was and he's only "possibly" stronger than Beerus, then Jiren should be weaker or comparable at best
 
So Vegeat is stronger than Beerus by your logic? Good to know.

Temporarily? Yes. All times? No.

No Shit. Whiss still have no way of knowing Jiren's FP.

I said the same thing before but i'll say it again. Whis knew about Jiren and that he would be at the ToP before the ToP. Whis saw Jiren overwhelmingly win against SSJB KKx20 Goku, while Jiren was far from full power. Beerus also freaking out by feeling Jiren's ki. If you put these two pieces together, you'll know how Whis came to the same conclusion.

Jiren simply has the AP advantage, I'm not saying that he stomps GoD. But he'll win a fight against Beerus without needing his UBW form.

And wasn't Broly stated to be the strongest foe ever ? If he was and he's only "possibly" stronger than Beerus, then Jiren should be weaker or comparable at best

We have no actual reliable source for that. Only a Saikyo Jump editorial office's statement, which is far from canon.
 
Scaling Jiren and Broly is as bad as scaling Nero and Dante lol.

Goku and his goal of surpassing Beerus has been an imprtant plot point for the majorty of DBS. I just don't buy that the show would just gloss over that without even mentioning Beerus and now of all sudden he's a fodder to Goku? DBS scaling seems to be going by narrtive wise than actual powers ups and in-universe scaling.

Jiren's power being retconned is also an option like you said Dante.
 
We have no actual reliable source for that. Only a Saikyo Jump editorial office's statement, which is far from canon.

That's some good news meu chapa

Goku and his goal of surpassing Beerus has been an imprtant plot point for the majorty of DBS. I just don't buy that the show would just gloss over that without even mentioning Beerus and now of all sudden he's a fodder to Goku? DBS scaling seems to be going by narrtive wise than actual powers ups and in-universe scaling.

I believe that they kinda removed Ultra Instinct from Goku to avoid this, since he have no feats no GoD only going with SSBKK, so Beerus can remain as the strongest. If Broly becomes an ally in the future, they will probably do something similar

About Vegeta, well, it could be a power peak (or something related to that technique, which was able to destroy Boo even when Vegeta was weaker than him), something that he can't do all the times but only under heavy pressure, Vegeta used that moment when he was talking with Belmod about how Saiyans can surpass their limits and etc

If you guys don't agree with this, maybe a CRT would be good, because their profiles state that Toppo = GoD and Vegeta is listed as > Toppo
 
Toppo = GoD, which are portrayed as equals. Stated by Belmod to be no different than a GoD.

Vegeta defeats Toppo. Increased his power by emotions and gained a temporary boost.

Title of the episode: Surpass Even a God! Vegeta's Desperate Blow!!

"Are you being serious? No point of arguing with you then."

I'm always serious.
 
So would that mean Toppo is to be portrayed as being capable of the same level as a GoD because Whis treated the clash as if any two of GoD level can accomplish this... And would also hint Beerus and Champa weren't using full power when doing said feat... which makes sense.
 
Well, going by Toppo's profile

As a God of Destruction Candidate, Toppo was stated to have become equal in power to a God of Destruction by the Supreme Kai, which was confirmed by Belmod in that only a GoD can access that level of power, with the narrator outright calling Toppo a GoD
 
I don't really know what to say now lol+

What do you think? Should it be changed with the argument that they were talking about destructive abilities and not power level?
 
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