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The characters scaled from Spider-Man need to have their statistics revised

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Antvasima

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Continued from here: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3122784

Hello.

Given our improved Kinetic Energy Feats rules, we need to find new calculated feats for scaling the Spider-Ma level/tier Low 7-C Marvel Comics characters, as they are based on Spider-Man pushing the Hulk at high speed.

Their durability feats tend to give far higher results than their destructive ones.

The characters scaled from Spider-Ma.

It would also be useful if we look over the scaling for the 8-A and 9-A Marvel Comics characters in conjunction, and possibly the speed ratings of the 9-A and 8-C DC Comics characters as well.

Help would be very appreciated.

(We have already finished revising the Batma level DC Comics characters due to the above-mentioned policy change.)
 
For Katana, I know her speed feat should have a recalc. Theirfir and Antoniofer did comment that ang sizing exaggerated how close Katana was to the Uzzies. Not to mention it seems iffy for reacting to bullets that are only Supersonic got a Massively Hypersonic rating. The feat looks more Hypersonic roughly at best.

I know Spider-Man has a casual High 8-C feat which should be a baseline for if we don't find any other regular feats. Captain American would definitely be somewhere in between of being well above Punisher but well below Spider-Man for certain.

@Zamasu, Batman has been downgraded to Small Building level+ based on another feat.
 
"I know Spider-Man has a casual High 8-C feat which should be a baseline for if we don't find any other regular feats. Captain American would definitely be somewhere in between of being well above Punisher but well below Spider-Man for certain."

Punisher has a few high 8-C feats and few 8-B feats, Black Widow has killed people that no sold High 8-C+ explosions.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I know Spider-Man has a casual High 8-C feat which should be a baseline for if we don't find any other regular feats. Captain American would definitely be somewhere in between of being well above Punisher but well below Spider-Man for certain.
Click to expand...
The 8-A and Low 7-C Marvel characters largely seem to have exaggerated ratings at the moment, yes.
 
Feel free to ask some calc group members to help us with this.
 
SuperKamiNappa said:
We should probably remove the bit about being comparable to Luke from Spidey's justification if that's true.
Click to expand...
Yes. Agreed.
 
I will fix it.

As for the Marvel street levels scaling, I'll look into some feats.
Thank you.
 
SuperKamiNappa

That nuke feat is taken as an extreme high end for Cage considering it ended up killing him, it was supposedly a miracle he even survived to begin with. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-O0czkkTo3Ig/VmI6IULI7QI/AAAAAAAAAYA/j1Owbn4xOQo/s1600-Ic42/RCO020.jpg His regular durability shouldn't be quite this high, and his durability is often shown to be higher than his AP. Overall I'd say he'd only qualify for Baseline Low 7-C at most.

Aside from that Cage is quite often shown to be significantly stronger than Spidey, I don't think the two should be scaled

EDIT: Dang, Ant beat me to the punch
 
The Axiom of Virgo said:
Minor nickpick but why doesn't the new 9-A Batman profile have Genius Level Intellect on his powers/abilities?, it even says Extraordinary Genius on his intelligence section.

As for the Marvel street levels scaling, I'll look into some feats.
Click to expand...
To late I already have. Unless your want to go through hundreds of the same comics that I read again.
 
 
That's mostly to do with inverse law, but there a couple of times when that doesn't apply cause they're characters that tank it from the origin point of the explosion.
 
Somebody should preferably update the Luke Cage (Marvel Comics) page to state that he almost died from the Small Town level+ explosion, so he should only be regular Small Town level instead.
 
@SuperAPM You shouldn't there's nothing there that'll help in tiering (I've checked in the far far past). If you want to check stuff out you'll just have to read the comics. Which is very time consuming.
 
Oof... I see but yeah looking though hundreds comics to find feats/statements that don't contradict what a character is normally capable of doing (with the constant retcons) is tough, I don't envy you but I still want to help the best I can.
 
I mean I've gone through more than half of all Punisher's appearances. He actually has pretty good feats of lifting strength, equipment, skill, and durability. Like who would've thought this crater would yield anything. Existing in one of the more well loved and popular Punisher comics, yet no one batted a eye. I don't see anyone talking about Punisher's perfect white yellow fireball that sunk down a cargo ship probably because they were to busy thinking how awesome it is that Punisher found and became Warmachine 18 panels later.
 
Regarding "small town/street" Marvel and DC scaling, I want to bring up one issue that many people overlook:

Does attack potency always equal durability? I see a lot of statements like

"can harm those who can harm him / scales to his durability" (without proper explanation)

(I know that a melee attack character will usually have his AP equals his durability as the character must survive the reaction force from the attack according to Newton's third law of motion.)

The description should at least be

"can harm as hard as those who can seriously harm him"

Even better, one should always do a thought exercise on whether one character's durability 100% scales to the said character's AP.

This has to be raised up as we have discovered that many Marvel street characters ARE having durability significantly stronger than their AP (in the extreme case, a stone wall).
 
@Jasonsith

That is a good point.
 
Spider-Man being High 8-C seems like too much of a lowball, especially considering the 498 Ton feat with Doc Ock's tentacles. Even when they were made to be stronger during the "Ends of The Earth" arc, Spider-Man broke through them.

That, and some possible Tier 7 feats for his villains make High 8-C seem too low. Luke Cage can always just heavily upscale from Spider-Man, since he's one-shot Venom before and none of the Tier 7 feats seem like it would be near Luke surviving the Small town+ explosion. It would make sense for him to be stronger than Low 7-C characters but die from a Low 7-C explosion that's much stronger. Assuming he's only baseline Low 7-C due to having it seem like a miracle that he survived a much stronger Low 7-C explosion doesn't seem to make much sense. He's obviously weaker, but that much weaker?
 
"Assuming he's only baseline Low 7-C due to having it seem like a miracle that he survived a much stronger Low 7-C explosion doesn't seem to make much sense. He's obviously weaker, but that much weaker?"

Depends on how you look at it. Said feat was calced to be 3,235 Tons https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Darkanine/Marvel_Comics:_Ultron_Bots_Explosio Baseline Small Town Level is 1,000 Tons; That's less than a 4x difference (3.235), doesn't seem that distinct tbh
 
Spider-Man does scale to his higher end villains e.g: At Least Low 7-C Rhino, Sand-man and the symbiotes however most of these villains have ways of surviving attacks from higher tier characters via regen or their general unique biology.

That said Spider-Man has consistently take hits and can fight back against these higher end low 7-C's without getting one-shot.
 
Writers fudge thier power scaling all the time from making a gap as large as 1000x look insignificant to making characters beat those that are way above their paygrade, yes; why is that significant?

Hell, the difference between Spidey and Venom should be about 2x (in Venoms favor) and they're most often portrayed as comparable to each other, trading blows on a constant basis wth Venom taking the slight edge. The difference between Spidey and Cage is supposed to be larger than the differnce between Spidey and Daredevil or whatever; Pretty Dang Big

The point is that in that nuke feat, Cage would've died under most circumstances and only survived by the skin of his teeth, most likely left a bloody mess left crawling to his destination before dying. In almost every other fight he's in he is nowhere near this damaged. A squirt of blood, minor bruising, maybe a concussion, but nothing even close to that nuke feat. At best the difference between the two is 2x (1,617 Tons), probably a lot higher all things considered. Again, I'm fine with Cage being Baseline Low 7-C but any higher is to big all things considered.

Even if you were to assume that Spidey is only 2x weaker than Cage, that'd still put him at 808 Tons, or 8-A. Which personally I'm fine with
 
@Peter

His Mark III armor allows him to one-shot the Rhino.

Spidey within his Mark IV easily manhandled Doc Ock's tentacles, is depicted as on-par with Iron Man's modern suit, since they've fought against each other and against others together, took a hit from Regent with the strength of Hercules, and another thing or two. I was unsure as to how that'd be seen so I avoided a CRT on it.
 
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