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So yesterday I made a thread detailing an upgrade for Kakuzu's AP although the debate ended short as the thread was closed due to supposed sock puppets, so today I've decided to make a much larger scale and comprehensive upgrade thread pertaining to multiple characters in Naruto who have direct scaling to the tailed beasts and should be upgraded. The characters we will be focusing on are the 4th Raikage, Tsunade, Kakuzu, Deidara, Gaara, Kisame, Rasa, Sasori, and Might guy. Most of these characters have direct scaling or feats that would put them above the tailed beasts although some of them will scale above each other and will indirectly put them above the tailed beasts as well. So starting off we will be taking a look at Both A (Fourth Raikage) and Tsunade. The reason I am putting these two together is because they are both comparable in AP and because the scaling for the Raikage is one of the most blatant in the series.
So during the 4th Raikage's fight with Sasuke and team Taka it is stated by Karin that the Raikage's chakra had reached that of a biju. Now this is specifically impressive because the only biju Karin had sensed at this point was Killer B who had entered his Biju state against team Taka. It is also worthy to note that Suigetsu who had fought against Killer B had specifically noted that the raikage had monstrous power. The raikage's are also statedto be the strongest in the village, which would include both the 2 tails and 8 tails. This is supported by a statement in the 4th data-book that claims the 4th raikage has the highest combat power in his village. The last thing we have is a direct feat for the 4th Raikage where he has the ability to harm the 8 tails, who is capable of tanking his own biju bombs.
Now that the Raikage has been displayed as comparable to a biju, the Tsunade scaling should be fairly straightforward. It is stated during the fight between Madara and the kage that Tsunade has greater power than the 4th Raikage. This is also displayed through feats asthe raikage was unable to affect The susanoo rib cage in base and was only able to crack it when he was being amped by onoki, but it isthen shattered by Tsunade. Tsunade also has a superior feat to this as she was able to one-shot one of Madara's full body susanoo clones as well.
Now we are going to dissect the scaling for both Rasa and Gaara. So the scaling for Rasa is simple as it is directly stated in the databook that Rasa would subdue Shukaku when he would go on rampages. During the war when the edo-kage were resurrected Rasa states that he was sure the sand coming their waywas the power of shukaku. Which turns out to be Gaara's sand. After this Gaara and Rasa's sand have multiple clashes virtually stalemating each other such ashere,where they match. and here where they once again stalemate. It is after this that Rasa states that Gaara's sand isn't powerful because of Shukaku, but because of his mother. This means that during the Deidara fight that Gaara's own power was the one that stopped the bombs. This is basically the end of the scaling for Rasa but there are still more feats to suggest Gaara being the level of the biju such as his ability to stop a full power Raikage'sGuillotine Drop even after he's had Shukaku extracted from him. Gaara's sand is also able to tank a strike from Madara's Full body Wood clone and it actually takes multiple strikes to overpower Gaara. This actually isn't even the final scaling to put Gaara at Biju level, as he also scales to Deidara's bombs but we will have to find how powerful Deidara is first.
So Deidara's scaling is extremely direct as he literally one-shots Isobuwith a normal bomb. Now this is good because Deidara is also later able to tank his own bomb attacks. During his fight with Sasuke, Deidara is pinned dowonto his drago by Sasuke while the dragon falls into some land mines he set earlier yet he comes out alive. This is good because Gaara is able to block an explosion and crush deidara's arm with his sand and would require more force than deidara's bombs which were able to defeat the 3 tails. Gaara's sand was also able to tank multiple attacksfrom Deidara's explosives. Finally Gaara's sand tanks the C-3 explosive which is stated by Deidara and the databook to be the his strongest bomb.
Now we are going to expand upon both the Gaara and Rasa scaling by introducing the 3rd kazekage, who is stated to be the strongest of the kazekage twice in the manga and twice in the databook...Manga scan 1Manga scan 2Data-book scan 1Data-book scan 2 So as you should be aware Sasori apparently defeated the 3rd kazekage easily and harvested his body into a human puppet. This is extremely good for sasori as human puppets are stated to retain their chakra from their previous life, which would indicate that they maintain their previous power as well. So Sasori with his kazekage puppet and the iron sand which is stated to be the most feared weapon in sand village history, (which would include shukaku.) should now scale above both gaara with shukaku and Rasa.
Moving on we are going to basically re-hash my previous kakuzu thread here. So Kakuzu tanked a direct attack from the full 2 tails perfect jinchuuriki and also tanked another attack that blew up the building they were i and destroyed a large portion of a mountain. For proof that kakuzu tanked it the panel following their battle displays a completely unharmed and uncaring kakuzu. Now this at bare minimum puts Kakuzu's durability at large island level based upon the scaling that the naruto character pages on the wiki have. Now as for Kakuzu's AP we never see who actually ends up being the one to damage Yugito, but we know that neither Hidan or Kakuzu have any hacks that do not rely on their AP or bypass durability so at some point they had to of hurt yugito. Now whether you argue this is Hidan or Kakuzu it is likely that it is Kakuzu because Here is hidan saying he is probably too slow to hit yugito as well, support for it being kakuzu, who was the one who drew blood, and here is Hidan saying that kakuzu is usually the doer of the 2. But even if you say it was hidan who hurt yugito, it is directly stated that Kakuzu is stronger than Hida so it would scale to Kakuzu's AP anyway.
Finally we will be transitioning into Kisame and Might Guy. Starting off with a bang Kisame is directly stated to have jinchuriki level power when fused with samehada, and is nicknamed the tailless bijuu. This is supported by the fact that the akatsuki are stated to be stronger than jinchuriki in the data-book. and that Roshi used the tremendous chakra of a tailed beast and still was defeated by Kisame. Moving forward with Might Guy, we have a databook statement that Guy is more or equal to anyone in the Akatsuki who are already stated to be stronger than Jinchuriki. In the fight with kisame and guy sensei, kisame directly states guy is fighting on his turf indicating kisame has an advantage in this scenario. Might Guy then goes on to essentially one shot kisame's attacks. Here is Guy essentially confirming, after going into the 7th gate, that he will essentially kill kisame in one hit. Guy then confirms this after beating kisame'sGiant Shark Bomb jutsuwith his Hirudora. This is also a Kisame who had drained all of Killer B's chakra as well. Found this translation for the jinchuriki level Kisame as well.
I understand that this would be a very wide scale upgrade ,but it is impossible to ignore all of the blatant scaling putting these characters on the level of the tailed beasts. I'd appreciate if we kept this thread civil.
So during the 4th Raikage's fight with Sasuke and team Taka it is stated by Karin that the Raikage's chakra had reached that of a biju. Now this is specifically impressive because the only biju Karin had sensed at this point was Killer B who had entered his Biju state against team Taka. It is also worthy to note that Suigetsu who had fought against Killer B had specifically noted that the raikage had monstrous power. The raikage's are also statedto be the strongest in the village, which would include both the 2 tails and 8 tails. This is supported by a statement in the 4th data-book that claims the 4th raikage has the highest combat power in his village. The last thing we have is a direct feat for the 4th Raikage where he has the ability to harm the 8 tails, who is capable of tanking his own biju bombs.
Now that the Raikage has been displayed as comparable to a biju, the Tsunade scaling should be fairly straightforward. It is stated during the fight between Madara and the kage that Tsunade has greater power than the 4th Raikage. This is also displayed through feats asthe raikage was unable to affect The susanoo rib cage in base and was only able to crack it when he was being amped by onoki, but it isthen shattered by Tsunade. Tsunade also has a superior feat to this as she was able to one-shot one of Madara's full body susanoo clones as well.
Now we are going to dissect the scaling for both Rasa and Gaara. So the scaling for Rasa is simple as it is directly stated in the databook that Rasa would subdue Shukaku when he would go on rampages. During the war when the edo-kage were resurrected Rasa states that he was sure the sand coming their waywas the power of shukaku. Which turns out to be Gaara's sand. After this Gaara and Rasa's sand have multiple clashes virtually stalemating each other such ashere,where they match. and here where they once again stalemate. It is after this that Rasa states that Gaara's sand isn't powerful because of Shukaku, but because of his mother. This means that during the Deidara fight that Gaara's own power was the one that stopped the bombs. This is basically the end of the scaling for Rasa but there are still more feats to suggest Gaara being the level of the biju such as his ability to stop a full power Raikage'sGuillotine Drop even after he's had Shukaku extracted from him. Gaara's sand is also able to tank a strike from Madara's Full body Wood clone and it actually takes multiple strikes to overpower Gaara. This actually isn't even the final scaling to put Gaara at Biju level, as he also scales to Deidara's bombs but we will have to find how powerful Deidara is first.
So Deidara's scaling is extremely direct as he literally one-shots Isobuwith a normal bomb. Now this is good because Deidara is also later able to tank his own bomb attacks. During his fight with Sasuke, Deidara is pinned dowonto his drago by Sasuke while the dragon falls into some land mines he set earlier yet he comes out alive. This is good because Gaara is able to block an explosion and crush deidara's arm with his sand and would require more force than deidara's bombs which were able to defeat the 3 tails. Gaara's sand was also able to tank multiple attacksfrom Deidara's explosives. Finally Gaara's sand tanks the C-3 explosive which is stated by Deidara and the databook to be the his strongest bomb.
Now we are going to expand upon both the Gaara and Rasa scaling by introducing the 3rd kazekage, who is stated to be the strongest of the kazekage twice in the manga and twice in the databook...Manga scan 1Manga scan 2Data-book scan 1Data-book scan 2 So as you should be aware Sasori apparently defeated the 3rd kazekage easily and harvested his body into a human puppet. This is extremely good for sasori as human puppets are stated to retain their chakra from their previous life, which would indicate that they maintain their previous power as well. So Sasori with his kazekage puppet and the iron sand which is stated to be the most feared weapon in sand village history, (which would include shukaku.) should now scale above both gaara with shukaku and Rasa.
Moving on we are going to basically re-hash my previous kakuzu thread here. So Kakuzu tanked a direct attack from the full 2 tails perfect jinchuuriki and also tanked another attack that blew up the building they were i and destroyed a large portion of a mountain. For proof that kakuzu tanked it the panel following their battle displays a completely unharmed and uncaring kakuzu. Now this at bare minimum puts Kakuzu's durability at large island level based upon the scaling that the naruto character pages on the wiki have. Now as for Kakuzu's AP we never see who actually ends up being the one to damage Yugito, but we know that neither Hidan or Kakuzu have any hacks that do not rely on their AP or bypass durability so at some point they had to of hurt yugito. Now whether you argue this is Hidan or Kakuzu it is likely that it is Kakuzu because Here is hidan saying he is probably too slow to hit yugito as well, support for it being kakuzu, who was the one who drew blood, and here is Hidan saying that kakuzu is usually the doer of the 2. But even if you say it was hidan who hurt yugito, it is directly stated that Kakuzu is stronger than Hida so it would scale to Kakuzu's AP anyway.
Finally we will be transitioning into Kisame and Might Guy. Starting off with a bang Kisame is directly stated to have jinchuriki level power when fused with samehada, and is nicknamed the tailless bijuu. This is supported by the fact that the akatsuki are stated to be stronger than jinchuriki in the data-book. and that Roshi used the tremendous chakra of a tailed beast and still was defeated by Kisame. Moving forward with Might Guy, we have a databook statement that Guy is more or equal to anyone in the Akatsuki who are already stated to be stronger than Jinchuriki. In the fight with kisame and guy sensei, kisame directly states guy is fighting on his turf indicating kisame has an advantage in this scenario. Might Guy then goes on to essentially one shot kisame's attacks. Here is Guy essentially confirming, after going into the 7th gate, that he will essentially kill kisame in one hit. Guy then confirms this after beating kisame'sGiant Shark Bomb jutsuwith his Hirudora. This is also a Kisame who had drained all of Killer B's chakra as well. Found this translation for the jinchuriki level Kisame as well.
I understand that this would be a very wide scale upgrade ,but it is impossible to ignore all of the blatant scaling putting these characters on the level of the tailed beasts. I'd appreciate if we kept this thread civil.
