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Illumina Major Downgrade Part 2

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DarkDragonMedeus

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Continued from here https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2962097 but needed to be closed due to 500 posts.

There are still divided groups; while there are more numbers that are against the downgrade, there are at least 5 Admins including a former Admin who agree with the downgrade. And I too agree with the downgrade.

One side says Maginary World is a multiverse where each and every dream is an entire Universe and/or Space-Time Continuum, while the other say Maginary World is simply a Universe where each dream is simply a pocket reality. Those who support the downgrade propose it to be from 2-B to Low 2-C. The scan describes it as "A World or dimension containing many worlds or dimension". And there's one place that's referred to as "4th Dimensional Space" which has a lot of debate on what that means.

Anyway, the important thing is that all participants must remain civil at all times. No saying, "Desperate fans" and no yelling at the opposing side or calling them "Anti 2-B Sonic" either. And also don't derail the thread in talking about other verses or calling out "Double Standards"; especially the Dream Depot or other 2-B showings from the Mario Verse. Thank You.
 
I'll just post this as it still hasn't been debunked at all

-Illumina's dream was to create and bring light to Maginary World.Maginary World is Illumina's dream and thus she created the precious stone to sustain her dream/maginary World

-As stated by Shadow the dreams exist separately from one another meaning each dream is a pocket reality of universe size which I will explain next.

-A statement saying that Maginary World is a Universe:https://share.icloud.com/photos/0-B1stNNTW1UgR7ZE5HcQjKZwb So if Illumina's own dream which is Maginary World is Universe sized then all other dreams be Universe sized as they all exist separately from Maginary World and are seperate dreams on their own.Stating that Maginary World is different from the other dreams is false as the precious stone affects all these dreams the same,like when Void broke the stone which threatened to destroy all the dream realms.Also a head canon that the dreams are in different scales is inaccurate based on the person dreaming them is headcanon unless proven otherwise.
 
That scan once again only describes Maginary World as being a Universe, not Multiverse. And again, every other dream is literally miniscule compared to the Maginary World. I also saw no scan for the worlds existing separately. Precioustone makes it sound like causing Maginary World to ruin would be a chain reaction.
 
Shadow posted on the previous thread that when they are going to the 4th dimension Lummina she says that all Worlds exists separately:https://youtu.be/jTQZcm9u_Ro It's also stated that the 4th dimension is made of the dreams of people, more proof that they are 4d
 
In this cutscene at 11:20, you see that the distortions are limited to the visible sky. You can actually see the sky itself is broken up showing that the pocket dimensions don't contain an entire universe.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
That scan once again only describes Maginary World as being a Universe, not Multiverse. And again, every other dream is literally miniscule compared to the Maginary World. I also saw no scan for the worlds existing separately. Precioustone makes it sound like causing Maginary World to ruin would be a chain reaction.
Click to expand...
Maginary World is Illumina's dream so every other beings dream should be a universal pocket reality unless you can prove otherwise.
 
Hopefully this thread doesn't become a crapshoot again however I've got very little faith at this point considering the clear bias there is (regardless of which points are shown).

Anyway let the "chaos" being again (I disagree with the downgrade and all "well informed" opinions should be treated equally).
 
Theuser789 said:
In 06 Solaris distortions also appear on the sky during the level "End of the world" even though he was affecting reality, we don't see the rest because we are not seeing it from space
Click to expand...
Except in 06's case you could actually fly all the way up into the void.

In shuffle, you see clouds getting broken up. Not to mention that the characters never further explore the world so there's no proof.
 
I'm talking about in the cutscene where the Super Hedgehogs fly up to fight Solaris. And in shuffle the literal atmosphere has the distortions.
 
The worst part is, after all this is done, we still have to do revisions for the shocking amount of evidence to Low 2-C base Archie Sonic (the revisions stopped because the OP was banned but the points are still valid), how legitimate the removal of 4-A Super Sonic was and if a single Chaos Emerald being 5-B is valid. Sonic revisions never end...
 
Theuser789 said:
The literal atmosphere also has distortions in the level"End of the world", this feels like nitpicking
Click to expand...
You think everything I say is nitpicking, either way there's still no proof of them being universe sized.
 
Oblivion Lightning said:
I'll just post this as it still hasn't been debunked at all

-Illumina's dream was to create and bring light to Maginary World.Maginary World is Illumina's dream and thus she created the precious stone to sustain her dream/maginary World

-As stated by Shadow the dreams exist separately from one another meaning each dream is a pocket reality of universe size which I will explain next.

-A statement saying that Maginary World is a Universe:https://share.icloud.com/photos/0-B1stNNTW1UgR7ZE5HcQjKZwb So if Illumina's own dream which is Maginary World is Universe sized then all other dreams be Universe sized as they all exist separately from Maginary World and are seperate dreams on their own.Stating that Maginary World is different from the other dreams is false as the precious stone affects all these dreams the same,like when Void broke the stone which threatened to destroy all the dream realms.Also a head canon that the dreams are in different scales is inaccurate based on the person dreaming them is headcanon unless proven otherwise.
Click to expand...
Theuser789 said:
Shadow posted on the previous thread that when they are going to the 4th dimension Lummina she says that all Worlds exists separately:https://youtu.be/jTQZcm9u_Ro It's also stated that the 4th dimension is made of the dreams of people, more proof that they are 4d
Click to expand...
Here's the proof
 
The Smashor said:
The worst part is, after all this is done, we still have to do revisions for the shocking amount of evidence to Low 2-C base Archie Sonic (the revisions stopped because the OP was banned but the points are still valid), how legitimate the removal of 4-A Super Sonic was and if a single Chaos Emerald being 5-B is valid. Sonic revisions never end...
Click to expand...
 
All the dreams fit in one universe meaning they're not universal in size. It's head canon to say it's like TGGP because it's never said to be like that, the dreams themselves aren't even called universes or dimensions.

Assumptions I tell you.
 
I honestly don't know what to discuss anymore we have our points and opposition gave theirs.We can't just keep waiting for people who support to just keep making cases over and over again that go nowhere continuously trying to succeeded in proving the downgrade
 
Zamasu Chan said:
All the dreams fit in one universe meaning they're not universal in size. It's head canon to say it's like TGGP because it's never said to be like that, the dreams themselves aren't even called universes or dimensions.

Assumptions I tell you.
Click to expand...
We've gone over this before several times.The dreams exist separately from Maginary World like pocket dimensions so yes it makes sense they can fit within Maginary World.The TGGP example is the same as each Omniverse Orb is like a pocket dimension that holds infinite universes and infinite dimensional planes all these orbs fit in a long golden tower.The same applies here the realities in the orbs exist separately just like the dreams in Maginary World do.
 
Theuser789 said:
Shadow posted on the previous thread that when they are going to the 4th dimension Lummina she says that all Worlds exists separately:https://youtu.be/jTQZcm9u_Ro It's also stated that the 4th dimension is made of the dreams of people, more proof that they are 4d
Click to expand...
It says that they all exist separate from each other Zamasu, you are the one making assumptions using desing choices
 
Existing separately doesn't mean anything. In DBS he afterlife is stated to be entirely separate from the living universe. That doesn't make is a separate universe just a spacial dimensions making them part of the same universe. For God sake one of the dreams are a plane, NB4 "But it's in a galaxy" that galaxy is just a lone galaxy in the Maginaryworld, you literally see them all over the Maginaryworld itself. Never do you see a galaxy in the dreamworld.
 
-Ok?

-It does when the only example of a dream size is universe in size and the fact that each one exists separately is obviously stating that each dream is universe in size as they exist separately and can all fit within Maginary World.Thee plane dream is a universe FRA
 
All worlds existing separately doesn't mean crap when Illumina also say that Maginary World is made up of dreams. She is obviously referring to the worlds that is contained in Maginary World in this case.

Sonic mentions traveling to the worlds with his group suggesting that the worlds are still connected to one another despite existing separately from one another.

It's like saying that galaxies should be a universe simply because they exist separately from one another even though it is more like they are far apart in distance.

Literally nothing mentions that the worlds exists outside of Maginary World. If they're contained in one space time continuum then they aren't separate from the Maginaryworld.

Also bringing up TGGP is false equivalency because those are gateways/portals to a different plain of existence.
 
Lmfao you've only been using headcanon by using false equivalency and taking things out of context (like for real TGGP has nothing to do with this)
 
I mean different boards and mini games have shown to take place at different points in time since some take place in the day and others in the night
 
The Dreams are refered to worlds, if it has more than a planet it refers to universe.

This debate reminds me of the people downplaying the zones in Archie into city level
 
Theuser789 said:
The Dreams are refered to worlds, if it has more than a planet it refers to universe.

This debate reminds me of the people downplaying the zones in Archie into city level
Click to expand...
World is a fallacious name to use for evidence. If the Maginaryworld is called a universe and a dimension, and the dreams are only called worlds, and the dreams are contained within the Maginaryworld, then there's absolutely no reason to believe they're universes, especially when one of these dreams is a literal plane.

"Oh but the plane has its own galaxy" NO, that's literally just a random galaxy in the Maginaryworld level selection that shouldn't be taken into account for anything.

Stop making shit up.
 
When it even is said that Marginary World has all the dreams and is only a universe? The dreams make the 4th dimension.

They have more than a planet, so it refers to universe, it's simple.

Prove that the galaxy is not part of Fire Bird, it's show only in that dream world.

>Stop making shit up.

You first
 
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