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Geralt vs Wolf (Sekiro)

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How good is Geralt's ice manip, attack reflection and mindhax?
 
someone get Dargoo

I'll wait for that
 
Yeah, it's through his signs. Basically he can write in the air and with magic it'll perform a task. He's no more likely to perform any one more than the other, though, IIRC. Could be fire manip or ice manip or mind manip.

I just dunno how IC it'd be for him to kill the mindhax victim (which would reset Wolf) or if ice kills (or if he kills them anyways).
 
Geralt's ice manip freezes normal humans solid instantaneously with a solid hit, his attack reflection reflects half of the damage and leaves him unharmed, and his mindhax can incapacitate a target momentarily at weakest and mindtrick them into fighting for him at strongest.
 
I should note Wolf should have some amount of resistance via not being trance'd by Butterfly. That said, most of the others would eventually kill Wolf (though I imagine he'd eventually work out how they worked). Killing him wouldn't be incap, however.

Basically, I see it going like this, and I welcome Dargoo to enter in and prove me wrong instantly.

Geralt has no reason to amputate Wolf and no prior knowledge to make him more likely to do so. Wolf has no idea what the signs do. Geralt picks one of the signs at random. At best he chooses to freeze him solid and temporarily harm Wolf, at worst he uses his mind manip and Wolf manages to ignore it (as IIRC it doesn't affect too many minds).

After this, like a sane human being, Geralt says 'doo dee doo, I killed him, neato'. Wolf gets up and garrotes Geralt if the situation favors him, or Geralt is to far so the fight merely resumes. In the former case, Wolf kills him and claims victory. In the latter, both begin to figure out their opponent's abilities- Wolf manages to deduce that the signs are Geralt's power, and Geralt begins looking for a method to actually kill Wolf.

Either way, Wolf has the lesser duty to perform here. Figuring out the signs and that they signify significant danger is easier than figuring out that Wolf can only be incapped by cutting off limbs. Geralt may get lucky and manage to deduce it, but I wouldn't bank any money on that.

Based on this view of events, I believe Wolf would manage to kill Geralt, either by surprise or some other means, before Geralt manages to incapacitate Wolf sufficiently.
 
Axii dominates the minds of two targets max going off of the in-game power, although in the story Geralt has mindhaxed groups of 3-4 people if the skill is high enough. IDK how good Wolf's resistances are but Aard's upgrade trees are pretty extensive in the games.

Geralt has experience with monsters that ressurect from the dead; see: any vampire and that one guy from Hearts of Stone. Suffice to say he isn't stupid enough to turn his back on a felled enemy, especially if he has no initial knowledge on them, and they're strong enough to go toe-to-toe with a Witcher. Regneration is also common among numerous monsters. Considering this, Geralt would deduce Wolf is some kind of undead or vampire, and resort to trying to bypass Regenerationn/ressurection through burning or shattering w/Piercing Cold.

Wolf getting the jump on Geralt is even less likely considering Geralt's senses can straight-up detect when his heartbeat begins again, or when he moves an inch.

Also, Quen nopes surprise attacks hard, assuming the initial fight doesn't just end with Geralt skewering Wolf after mindhaxing or drastically outskilling him.

All in all I don't think Wolf poses a particular challenge to Geralt outside of the initial fight, which Geralt has more than enough ammunition to win more oft than not.
 
Question, Axii sign spawns a projectile that hits the targets for mind control (unless it has other perks that exist outside that).

Is it possible for him to teleport away from it (Mist Raven allows him to teleport a few meters while leaving trails of fire) or use the Loaded Umbrella to defend against it? (It's able to defend against both fire and fearhax so there's that).
 
Oh, I see it in a few gameplay vids which looked like a projectile. My mistake if it isn't.
 
I'm voting incon.

Geralt's mind manip is questionable in terms of working, and he could reasonably overcome Wolf's immortality (though Sekiro verse needs to discuss Type 4 immortality at some point).

But that Type 4 isn't totally negated and his feats of skill speak for themselves. I'd lean more towards Wolf, but we can't guarantee mind manip won't work so eh.
 
He still permanently lost his arm after his first fight with Genichiro, even though he already had ressurective ability, so he probably wouldn't come back from being blasted into pieces
 
@Dargoo

1. Unclear. Sheev and Sigurd are currently referencing how we held his Type 4 to be before. His arm got chopped off, and it wasn't back. Ergo, he can't regen limbs. That said, Wolf got his Type 4 after, but also before, because of timehax lol. His arm was chopped off and he couldn't, in lore, resurrect instantly- whereas he can later. So it isn't really clear his Type 4 was even active then.

Basically we ain't know shit.

2. I don't doubt it, but Gyoubu's feat is just plain absurd and, as several lore people have said, Wolf is basically responsible for dooming the entirety of Ashina Castle by killing every single one of its main defenders.
 
3 defenders kept it from getting yeeted by the government to be exact. Incon FRA.
 
And Sekiro wiped Gyoubu, forced Genichiro into his Way of Tomoe form and then later fights agai, and Isshin... well. Bugger Isshin.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
2. I don't doubt it, but Gyoubu's feat is just plain absurd and, as several lore people have said, Wolf is basically responsible for dooming the entirety of Ashina Castle by killing every single one of its main defenders.
Click to expand...
Geralt has taken on entire armed guards (hence the title "Butcher of Blaviken"), and goes toe-to-toe with monsters and swordsmen every other day of the week. That doesn't sound particularly impressive in comparison.

Geralt soloed a group of six people who could kill an entire armed guard of a castle without taking a single hit.

Cosnidered to be the greatest swordsman of an area spanning multiple countries.

Kills the armed guard of a priso which is more well-guarded then a keep that houses royalty.

***** on armed guards with a cane.

20 soldiers at once.
 
SheevShezarrine said:
Are the Witcher books canon to the games? Because the games aren't canon to the books.
Click to expand...
The books are (mostly) canon to the games, but not the other way around.
 
@Bambuu while the whole Hirata Estate thing does involve its fair share of timehax, I don't think it impacts the how and when of his acquisition of his ressurective ability. His first go at it was essentially a retrieval/recreation of his lost memories.
 
@Sheev But it really does though. Wolf explicitly said he hadn't been there before. He says so himself. Which makes it sorta questionable as to when he effectively had Type 4.

@Dargoo Slaying armies of fodder is different than slaying armies of enemies equal to yourself. Each of those imperial soldiers is roughly equivalent to the Lone Swordsman who is literally a mini boss later in the game. Literally an army of equivalently strong enemies.
 
Mr. Bambu said:
@Sheev But it really does though. Wolf explicitly said he hadn't been there before. He says so himself. Which makes it sorta questionable as to when he effectively had Type 4.

@Dargoo Slaying armies of fodder is different than slaying armies of enemies equal to yourself. Each of those imperial soldiers is roughly equivalent to the Lone Swordsman who is literally a mini boss later in the game. Literally an army of equivalently strong enemies.
Click to expand...
His memory was screwy, so of course he didn't remember it. Kuro alludes to the Hirata Estate incidient when you meet him in the tutorial, and Wolf doesn't recall it. Wolf is not a reliable narrator as far as his jumbled memories are concerned.
 
Wolf doesn't recall it because he hadn't been there yet. He went there later via time travel. Hence not remembering it before he ever went there.
 
I'm tempted to say it's memory like the one in DS2 due to the existence of the Father's Charm Bell, but hey it's FromSoft with their lore mumbo jumbo. They're always sneaky with that.
 
@Steve It could be that way. It could be. But we have no definitive proof. Basically the only evidence of Wolf being an unreliable narrator is that he didn't remember going somewhere where he theoretically hadn't actually gone yet.

I still vote incon as not being affected by Butterfly's trances should be enough to negate basic mindhax on this level, just saying I'm iffy on how to consider Wolf's Type 4.
 
I'd say Lady Butterfly's trances are easier to break due to only requiring loud, abrupt sound to be broken, whereas Axii is broken by Geralt having to attack the recipient.
 
The logic of Sekiro is that loud sounds break the grip on the mind. By verse equalization this logic would carry over to some extent to Witcher.
 
Axii only causing stun is purely a gameplay mechanic. When Axii is used in cutsenes, its typical mindhax. So there is no reason it will break if attacked. And if Geralt mindhaxes to go away, he likely won't attack.
 
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