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Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Discussion Thread 6

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To continue where we left off:

Actually, based on LN vol. 4 Shizue (at her peak) is considered "A-plus" (according to Yuuki). Also Rimuru wouldn't be "A-plus" but rather "Special A", since he easily one-shotted one such existence (Sky Dragon) with Gluttony.

It's rather confusing with the whole A rank due to how many variations there are in regards to "above A". Phrases like "surpassed A rank", "beyond A rank", "super-A rank existence", etc. It doesn't make it easy to classify, but I'd think Special A would still be above A-plus. It'd make sense. After all Shizu at the end of her peak period needed to use all her power and unleash Ifrit just to kill a Special A Rank monster (after which she fell unconcious for several days). It'd be comparable to the situation with Ranga where his Death Storm is an exceptional attack above his own AP that uses up all stored up power, an all-out attack that can only be used once during battle.

So if Ifrit and Shizu are A+ that'd make things convenient in a way. We could have it like this:

  • A-minus = Low 7-C
  • A = 7-C (without AoE capability) / High 7-C (with AoE capability)
  • A-plus = Low 7-B
  • Special A = At least Low 7-B
  • Demon Lords Carrion/Frey/Clayman, maybe Charybdis, maybe Rimuru = At least Low 7-B, likely higher

This would make things less "clustered" though I guess there aren't too many characters this would even apply to.

We can only hope that vol. 5 which will be released in about 2 weeks will give us some good feats in the 2-B+ range to scale to...
 
NeoSuperior said:
To continue where we left off:
We can only hope that vol. 5 which will be released in about 2 weeks will give us some good feats in the 2-B+ range to scale to...
Click to expand...
I would be greatly confused if anything showed 2-B+ range in vol 5.
 
Whoops, I meant 7-B+ of course. I mean if we don't get that, then Rimuru would probably end up being merely 7-A at best, when we make his LN profile for the True Demon Lord key.

Should that happen, then depending on whether or not Endless Regenerationn gets explained, he might end up being one of the strongest 7-A characters though.
 
He will probably be 6-A scaling to carrera but she doesn't show up until later volumes so yea his demon lord key won't be anything impressive really for a while, if i had to guess it will mention him being 10x stronger, which would indeed make him 7-B.
 
Should I still read the WN in the meantime or should I try again ver the LN for a bit?

Was actually planning on resuming it today but had stuff to take care in the way.
 
By the way, does energy scale 1:1 with temperature? e.g. when an attack is 10x hotter than another one, would that also mean it got 10x as much energy?
 
@Qliphoth I mean vol 5 of the ln won't be translated for another 2 weeks, and we don't know when the other volumes are gonna be out so i would say read the wn first.

For reference vol 5 will cover from like chapter 67 of the wn to like chapter 83 or something like that, the wn has like 246 chapters in total, so the ln is barely touching the surface.

@Neo Not sure, probably have to ask a calc member or make a q&a thread.
 
Stuff that needs to be added to Rimuru's (LN) profile:

  • Control Magic and Control Gravity should be added.
    • Manga/Anime use "Manipulation", e.g. "Magic Manipulation", instead of "Control Magic", it seems. I'll leave it to those who edit the page to decide which version to go with, though personally I think manga/anime versions sound better, but LN versions are easier to manage in the long run.
    • The text also isn't clear about whether the creation of Control Magic consumes one or both its components (Control Particles and Magic Interference) or not, but Rimuru mentions that these fused skills are by default "downwards compatible" so it doesn't really matter either way.
  • "Herculean Strength" should be removed. Instead the Extra Skills "Strengthen Body" and "Steel Strength" should be added.
    • Rimuru gains these Skills off-screen, appearently. Their first mention is in LN vol. 2 when Rimuru appearently already provided Shion with them. They are also shown on Rimuru's LN vol. 2 "status screen".
    • No details in regards to these skills are given other than the fact that they have to do with physical enhancement. But based on the names I'd figure "Strengthen Body" is a general full-body enhancement, while "Steel Strength" is specifically enhancing muscle strength.
  • Arts, escpacially Battlewill and Modelwill should be added.
    • The first time Rimuru is shown to use Battlewill is in LN vol. 4 epilogue during his battle with Hinata, he appearently managed to learn it off-screen at some point.
    • Manga/Anime both seem to be glossing over the fact that these even exist.
    • Aura Magic is a combination of Arts and Magic.
Two more things:

  • Freya Sphere -> Flare Circle.
  • Shouldn't we rename the keys for the LN? "Royal Capital" could be taken as both Tempest's Capital City or Ingraccia's Capital City, something more distinct would be preferable. Or rather shouldn't the second key be removed alltogether for now? The situation in regards to AP is different in the LN anyway. I'd have to check Veldora's Diary first before being able to say anything more about this.
 
Celestial Pegasus and Elizhaa

Is it allright if I create a "general Rimuru Tempest LN migration" content revision thread? There are still several things that need to be added and I think it's better to do it now before the whole rush caused by the release of LN vol. 5 in about two weeks that will cause any revisions of earlier parts to be inevitably delayed. And I don't think these revisions should be done in this general discussion thread.

The issue is that one particular aspect is a re-arrangement of the keys. The reason is that the reasonings for the keys based on the WN, which CP mentioned in the previous General Slime Discussion thread, are not valid for the published version based on the LN and Veldora's Diary. One reason is the new rank of "Special A" (Calamity), which seems to be above A+. Shizue needed to go all out and use Ifrit above the safe margins to beat a Special A being, after which she fell into a coma for several days, which caused the end of her peak period.

Ifrit himself is Special A according to Veldora's Diary. Orc Disaster is also Special A and supposedly has 2 times the magical energy of Ifrit. Rimuru won against both of them, though it might be argued that the case of Ifrit was more a hax win. But Orc Disaster was different and it would also be a huge stretch to say that Rimuru is STILL only Hazard-rank even after defeating the Orc Disaster.

In addition Phobio, estimated to have a higher magicule count than Ifrit according to Veldora's Diary, is estimated by Rimuru to be above Benimaru and Shion in terms of power, and in regards to himself would "bring him trouble" if he fought him pre-Orc Disaster, but is convinced that he himself is stronger than Phobio post-Orc Disaster, though he "wouldn't want to test it out if he could help it". Veldora in Veldora's Diary even outright states that "he is no match for Rimuru".

So really, the previous reasoning for the LN keys being based on the WN are not valid based on all that. Based on power-scaling Rimuru is definitly Special A rank, at the latest by the time he eats the Orc Disaster, though there is no definite way to tell in regards to when Rimuru reached that level. According to Veldora's Diary Rimuru was already A rank BEFORE he named him, at least.

So would it be better to make a general content revision thread for all of that, seperate the key revision from the rest, or make a completely seperate thread for each invidivual change?
 
Special A, I thought could be Country Level in LN. Even then, it looks more explicit that A rank has country level statements perhaps more than in the WN.

From LN Vol.1

The Special S rank combined the S rank, which comprised demon lord―class foes that deserved more than simply an A, with the "Special" tag reserved for those above even that class—monsters capable of single-handedly engineering calamities or natural disasters. A scale-breaking rank, existing wholly outside the six traditional ones. Normally, an A-ranked monster alone would be dreadful enough to threaten the existence of a nation—someone like Veldora was dangerous enough to plunge it into despair.
~ LN Vol.1​
.

The better option is to get a better scaling of the A rank since and following the scaling discussion finalized the tiers from the CRT.

I do think they would have the same tiers current tiers though as Low 7-B as the size of nation ten to be ambiguous.
 
There's Ranga's Death Storm, which is a 7-A technique (based on a previous calc). According to Veldora's Diary:

This is a wall that must be scaled to transcend the A-Rank tier
~ VD4​
If that's the case then that "transcended" tier would be Special A (Calamity). Ifrit is part of that and the Orc Disaster has twice of Ifrit's energy. Rimuru/Great Sage (auto-battle mode) was able to make a Flare Circle that's stronger than that of Ifrit, which is said to be Ifrit's strongest attack, according to Veldora's Diary. Peak Shizu also needed to make an all-out attack with Ifrit completely unleashed and Shizue falling into a several-days-long coma just to kill a single Special A class Dragon (which I assume is comparable to the Sky Dragon that Rimuru easily one-shotted in LN vol. 4).

But regardless the keys need to be rearranged because the current configuration makes no sense for the published (LN/manga/anime) version.


EDIT:

Another thing that needs to be taken into consideration: The Low 7-C "Storm/Clouds" by Ifrit, that is used as a base measurement for almost everyone in the LN version currently, is just a passive effect with no action by Ifrit himself, it just appeared, when he took over Shizue's body, automatically. It's not even an attack.

Meanwhile the 7-A Death Storm by Ranga is an all-out attack that only left more energy for one more black lightning until he was out of magicules.

Orc Disaster has 2x the amount of magicules that Ifrit got. Are you telling me that Ranga's attack is 100x / 50x stronger than Ifrit's / Orc Disasters entire AP? Or perhaps we should re-adjust the scaling? Right now it's completely non-sensical.
 
@Neo Rimuru's ln skills and what not right now are just a copy past of the wn, eventually i was going to replace the skills with the ln and add scans, but you can go ahead and do so.

The keys do need to be rearranged though, so go ahead and make a crt thread.
 
NeoSuperior, regarding LN/manga/anime version all is based on the LN. If the keys have to be rearranged then the profiles would need to be separated.
 
@Neo Just noticed the ln profile was locked, opened it, so if you wanna add his ln skills go ahead.

The upgrades need a crt thread though.
 
So we can finally break through that cluttered, unshackable Low 7-B wall? Great to hear that. It didn't look good how all characters were thrown into a single tier. Though how to differentiate between the low end of Rank A at Low 7-C up to the new current height of 7-A for calamities (if the CRT goes well) will require quite a bit of thinking and referencing. We must also come to a decision whether the Low 7-C feat is only for A ranks or also A-minus ranks.

Though the one who said that in the quote wasn't Rimuru, but rather Veldora. It's an excerpt from the manga volume extras "Veldora's Diaries" that were written by the original author Fuse at the end of every manga volume, showing the events the manga covered from Veldora's perspective from within Rimuru's stomach as he watches Rimuru's adventures. Ifrit also becomes Veldora's "side-kick" at some point. Great Sage is actually able to speak to them through the Voice of the World, but she fools them into believing that she is Rimuru himself.

Elizhaa said:
NeoSuperior, regarding LN/manga/anime version all is based on the LN. If the keys have to be rearranged then the profiles would need to be separated.
Click to expand...
Not sure what you mean. I was just saying that the reasoning for the current LN keys (pre- & post-Live in the Royal Capital Arc) came from the WN, which isn't valid anymore because the issue that CP mentioned at the end of the previous General Thread (where it was unclear in the WN when exactly Rimuru reached "A+" level) doesn't exist in the composite LN/manga/anime canon, so THAT particular seperation doesn't make much sense anymore.


@Celestial Pegasus

OK, will do the additions first then. Have to think what reference material is neccessary first for the CRT. Rather, since Megiddo was already removed, the second key is already rather irrelevant anyway. I'll remove "Merciless One" and "Spatial Transfer Gate Creation" while I am at it, too..
 
While editing the character page for Rimuru(LN), I noticed something that might be quite useful for future calcs:

Being pure metal—magisteel, for that matter, the toughest in the world—it would naturally be a defensive powerhouse. There were some rare metals out there with a melting point of over nine hundred degrees, but magisteel topped out at upward of eighteen thousand. 'Between that and its self-healing abilities, there wasn't a better metal out there.
~ LN vol. 4​
So Magisteel got a melting point of over 18,000┬░C. I think that's higher than anything on Earth. Rather it's about 3 times the temperature of the sun's surface.

And the "self-healing abilities" would mean that Beretta's future LN profile should would gain some sort of Regenerationn, though not sure which type yet.
 
They got removed during one of my edits for some reason. Now I re-added them. Sorry, I have no idea why that happened.
 
Glad to hear that it's so well received. It's mainly based on how Rimuru's status screen at the end of LN vol. 2 was sorted, though I reversed the order, but that doesn't matter much since that can be changed at any point anyway. Only the Arts (Battlewill, Modelwill) are left now for Rimuru's profile, and I guess I'll have to replace those "placeholder" prefixes, since it hurts the eyes to read "Skills" or "Extra Skill" at the beginning of every single Skill.

The "references" to LN/manga for the Skills and other things will have to wait though. That's just far too much work for now. I don't even have an imgur account right now (have only been uploading it to imgur anonymously and saved the link into a .txt file up until now), so keeping track might be a tad bit difficult. Instead, next on the list will be the CRTs.

Not sure if I should lump the key issue into the same thread with all the other issues, like adding resistence to heat+cold manipulation, discussing the matter of Glutton and at what point it's considered to have gained the non-physical interaction property (didn't seem to have that during Charybdis fight, but could later swallow lesser demons and lesser spirits) and some other issues. I'll probably make the key issue a seperate thread from the rest in the end since it might potentially change the key-range too based on what Elizhaa said previously.
 
Heat and cold go hand in hand with fire and ice so i just considered it as those. I mean we don't exactly have cold manipulation as an ability on the site, we do have heat manipulation though.

He did swallow charbydhis though, he separated charydhis from phobio then consumed charybdhis so that it wouldn't leave and resurrect again.
 
Rimuru's absorption had non-physical interaction since the fight with Ifrit didn't it?
 
^

This as well, ifrit is a spiritual lifeform thus has no physical body, rimuru still absorbed him with predator.
 
Also there is the fact that everyone with magic can harm spiritual lifeforms.

@Op Yea, i also see it.
 
No, Ifrit was only in half spirit form since he was possessing Shizue. Rimuru even mentions in LN vol. 4 that he has to turn Ifrit into a "full spirit" again first in his battle against Hinata.

In regards to Charybdis, it was still fused into Phobio, which makes it the same situation as with Ifrit, however if Charydis got seperated too much from Phobio without those seperated parts being immdietly absorbed, Rimuru mentions that as a spiritual life-form Charydis might "slip through his fingers", implying that Rimuru wouldn't be able to catch it with Glutton. But later Rimuru actively planned to eat the Demon, also a spirital life-form but ended up not due to the audience at the time, but he did later eat Lesser Spirits who are also spiritual life-forms. So it's likely that Glutton got its trait to affect non-physical life-form like that after Great Sage analysed it. Wouldn't be the first time that Rimuru got something like that off-screen.

The reason why I think Resistance to Heat and Cold Manipulation should be added, is because Rimuru's first two resistances are LITERALLY called "Resist Heat" and "Resist Cold". They get fused into "Resist Temperature" immidietly and later gets upgraded to "Cancel Temperature" by fusing "Cancel Flame Attack" into it. So there's that.

And yes, I noticed the same issue with Rimuru's profile. Might be a redirect?
 
When is it stated he was in half spirit form when possessing shizue?

Even if he was, physical attacks are stated to not work on him, so it's still a degree of non-physical interaction to be able to harm him.

""…My master, physical attacks will not work against spiritual foes. Striking their elemental weakness or using magic will," Ranga explained. Oh. Right. Hitting an elemental spirit with a sword wouldn't do much, would it?"

In regards to charybdis the reason why he said it would slip away is if he just merely used deviant to separate phobio from charybdis, hence he needs to glutton in addition to deviant.

"The task at hand involved fully separating Phobio from Charybdis. My Deviant unique skill allowed me to synthesize and separate things, and it'd be the latter that I'd use for this job. However, just doing that alone would cause Charybdis, a spiritual life-form, to float away out of my hands. That's where my other unique skill, Glutton, would come in."
 
-
I couldn't summon elementals, not if I'm separated from the outside world. But I did have a certain deviant spirit inside me.

Report. Using the unique skill Deviant, the higher-level elemental Ifrit has been separated into a pure elemental.

Ifrit, transformed into a half monster, returned to full spirit form.
~ LN vol. 4​
But oh well, it would only matter in case that we set a new key that covers only up to before the Blumund Kingdom arc anyway.
 
Speaking of which, how exactly do you intend to rearrange his key?

What's the new key/keys gonna be.
 
To be honest I have no idea. I mean according to Elizhaa it's possible that the tiers might be shifted based on what I posted earlier. The "broadest" scenario would be that any character with the "A Rank" somewhere in their description might be stretched out between the minimum of Low 7-C to the maximum of 7-A. Though since there are currently 3 characters with LN profiles, namely Rimuru, Shizue and Charybdis, it wouldn't be all that much work, but it'd be tough to see how things end up scaling in that case.

If the 7-A scaling increase fails? Then Rimuru would either only have one "At least Low 7-C" key or, if we go with the same reasoning as previously (i.e. identifying when Rimuru definitly reached/surpasses peak Shizue), then "Low 7-C" for pre-Orc Disaster and "At least Low 7-C" for post-Orc Disaster, since there is enough evidence to prove that Ifrit, a Special A (calamity), which is above Shizue's A-Plus, is weaker than Phobio, who in turn is weaker than Rimuru, which means Rimuru is Special A too, which means he is above peak Shizue post-Orc Disaster.

And yes, Shizue is below Special A. At the end of her peak period she needed to make an over-the-limit attack while unleashing Ifrit just to beat a Special A Dragon, causing her to fall into a coma for several days, ending her peak period for good.
 
OK, you'll read it here first, guys. Don't know how I managed to overlook it previously, but apperently the final "Black Lightning" attack that Ranga used on Geld that drained him of all his remaining magicules and caused him to hide in Rimuru's shadow, was appearently a "concentrated version of Death Storm". In other words, Orc Disaster Geld tanked a single-target High 7-A tier attack - and Ranga was able to use the Attack Skill, albeit in different forms, twice instead of just once.

I guess with that it's decided? Scale increase to High 7-A tier for those on the level of Orc Disaster and higher? Maybe Ranga (once get gets an LN version for himself) too? I guess I should open that CRT then. We'll see once it gets going whether to do the key issue at the same time or not.
 
Checked the veldora diaries, you are correct.

High 7-A does indeed scale to the characters.
 
Based on the Veldora Diaries, making Hakurou's LN profile for his early keys sure is going to be fun. Would probably be high-AP but low hax, the way he was described there.

Anyway, I finally found a line where Veldora outright states that Rimuru's magicule capacity is higher than Ifrit's - and it's before Rimuru even eats Geld, so that might influence the upcoming CRT too. Based on previous statements it seems Rimuru was below or equal to Ifrit before he ate Ifrit in terms of magicules, but eating Ifrit made him not only equal but instead stronger than Ifrit. That wasn't quite clear up to now.

But enough side-stepping. Goint to open that CRT now, for real.
 
You can make Hakurou's profile if you like.

I shouldn't always be the one doing all the work lol.

Really, wouldn't mind if you made all the remaining light novel profiles that need to be made ie ranga, hakurou, shion, souei, treyni, geld etc etc.
 
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