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Swamp Thing Heresy part 2 (Classic Swamp Thing Revision)

Hykuu

Hykuu

2,459
486
I forgot to do this lool, I am also garbage at intros

"Attack Potency: Universe level+ (Described as being one with the World / Universe multiple times"

The scan in itself linked with this only shows Swamp Thing being one with the earth, which is consistent as he is one of the Green Avatars who originated from earth, and is destined to protect it, he never showed anything about him being the ENTIRE universe.

As shown in Swamp Thing issue 75, when Swamp Thing ascends his Mind into the realm of awareness, he realizes that he is the mother of all on EARTH, he doesn't mention anything regarding the universe, nothing substantiates it being on a universal scale.

" holds controlover the forces that make up Creation. "

The scans for him holding control over the elements comes from GST, Lol, This was when he was going between parliament to parliament, becoming their champions in order to become the New God of the Universe.

All of this is taken from swamp thing issue 161 and above, which is roughly when the GST arc starts (GST stands for God Swamp Thing)

"Three of the Four Elements of the Earth are Under my Control, and when I pass the ordeal of the parliament of flames tonight this whole world shall be mine to control"

(The Scan linked in the profile is the parliament of flames one, this isn't base swamp thing)

"His New Abilities were granted as a reward for this act, but they serve a much darker purposeHis mission is now to rid this world of your god and all his hateful followers"

"Were I not awaiting the trail of the Parliament of flames the whole earth would truly be under my control."

Self Explanatory scan, Alec took the trails of every element in order to gain their powers, as each of them alone wouldn't stand a chance against the voice, but if Alec took the powers of all 4 at once he would become the new God of the World.

All the other quotes substantiate the fact that he didn't have control over the other elements, and that he had to go through a series of trails to gain the powers of each trail.

Hell, The Scan linked is literally the end of the God Swamp Thing saga, LOL.

In conclusion, Swamp Thing never held control over the elements in base, and the scans are taken out of context in order to give him a higher rating.

" Fought and defeated a man described by The Monitor as being in the same general Tier of power as Trigo and The Spectre"

Swamp Thing was literally a dot in comparison to the Spectre ,who saw no threat of him trying to attack him and according to the PS, Swamp thing can't even approach him.

Also, In the same comic (Annual 2) It was implied that demons are capable of tearing apart Swamp Thing, and the Spectre literally killed a entire horde just by being angry (I'll post scans if needed but this is enough)

For the warping the Green stuff, what do we consider as classic swamp thing? as the comic came years after the 1982 one. Also, where is it stated that's the entire Green and not just a part of it? This could just be the same fluke as the Flower in PF ST, lol.

" "High Multiverse level+ (Exists as a Higher-Dimensional Conceptual Being beyond all creation and all Metaphysical Parliaments),"

Higher D Being =/= 5D

How is it beyond all of creation? y'all do realize it literally states the parliament of waves told him how to manipulate said realm, and that the realm is a part of the red, not the green, hence why it's beyond the green's reach.

Also, I can't even find this scan in the god swamp thing saga, wtf?

 
Also, for his new tier, no idea, probs star level


On another note, where is the proof for his high godly?
 
Disagree entirely. Swamp Thing's high level is consistent. He's even shown as superior to both Superman and Captain Atom in the Pre Cteis universe. Defeated a guy around the level of Trigon. Hell itself is shown to fear him. And the Green is something that exists throughout the multiverse and he does indeed display oneness with the universe at times.
 
I have restored this thread, but will keep it closed until I have talked with Matthew.
 
@Matt While his tier may be fine, we should fix all the justifications in that profile. I also fear the powers he had before the other thread may be exaggerated or be other powers entirely.
 
We need to change the justifcation entirely, as I already said:

The "world " in swamp thing has never been shown to be the universe itself and at times explicitly stated to be the earth, he doesn't embody all the elements as thats something explicit for god swamp thing and he literally removed his control over the elements after he became god swamp thing in vol 4 in order to defeat Sargon.

I already debunked the trigon and spectre stuff in the original thread, hell, when GST got 3 of the 4 parliaments he says that "even the spectre can't stop him now" which would imply he would have at an earlier state, which is base.

theres literally nothing showing that hell fears him when he can't even go to hell due to his connection with the green (go to hell as in finally dying and his soul resting there). Its literally stated that even he can't survive in hell.

All he did was BFR captain atom's mind into limbo and defeat a basically dying superman, doesn't equate to much.

Generally, All the justifications are garbage, BUT, A user known as LephyrTheRevanchrist showed me a promising argument back when the thread was orignally closed.

"however, as of Crisis on Infinite Earths, the multiverse fused into a single one, as stated in Rick Veitch's Swamp Thing run by Merlin. This is what allowed Swamp Thing to travel through time and what not. The Green touches this time stream, of which there are "almost infinite points" and "expands enlessly"

2, the Problem with this is that I genuinely don't know if swamp things connection with the green extends to the point where he can actually make this some sort of AP feat, so I think I would like others thought regarding this (and scans ofc). I did post a message on Lephyr's wall since he/she is inactive.
 
For once I disagree with Matt here. At least until seeing the evidence.
 
I read like 80 Swamp Thing issues through and through when I revised the pages back then. Hard for me to find which ones I did specifically and all the evidence beyond just telling people to read it.
 
Okay. The "as well" made me uncertain.
 
Matt, the only statement you used to prove that is from GOD swamp thing, not base, it comes from volume 4 which literally talks about the green on a plantery scale, hell, moore's run literally establishes there being different greens for every earth.

He literally says verbatim, "I am the earth.", before the scan, and we literally see him coming out of the earth in the page right after.

For recreating the green, Sargon states the green was poisoned and tainted before this entire fiasco regardless.

As sargon was draining his powers, swamp thing was forced to give up his control over all the elements and remain as an avatar of the green specifically, further showing he doesn't even have full control over every element in base and this was just a god swamp thing amp.

Also matt, I read all the issues of the alan moore run and vol 4, I don't get why you are trying to "flex" those 80 issues as a point. Unless you can show scans this discussion is over, also I am still confused as to why god swamp thing classic scans are used here in general? Like, you try talking about reading the comic but you are ignoring the context for some reason.
 
Could it be possible to use the quote Hykuu linked in his last comment as part of the justification? Maybe to replace or supplement the scan about him being one with the world?

I won't be much help here tbh, Swamp Thing is something I haven't read that much of. And I still think his Multi-Parliament self should be given its own key apart from his base self.
 
Well, second scan is Post-Flashpoint, and the third scan is Pre-Flashpoint but is talking about the literal planet earth. First scan is also Pre-Flashpoint but doesn't have any application to Base Swamp Thing, which is what this thread seems to currently be debating.
 
PrinceOfTheMorning said:
Could it be possible to use the quote Hykuu linked in his last comment as part of the justification? Maybe to replace or supplement the scan about him being one with the world?
I won't be much help here tbh, Swamp Thing is something I haven't read that much of. And I still think his Multi-Parliament self should be given its own key apart from his base self.
Click to expand...
I trust POTM with DC.
 
I trust his sense of judgement as well.
 
Okay. That can probably be applied then.
 
I left the wiki but I still gotta finish this shit before I truly die

A bound swamp thing should probably be solar system level due to bodying aquaman and etriga , who have shown to be comparable to superman (for etrigan thats a bare minimum.)

For his key which controls all the elements (God swamp thing), I don't think he should be 5D as the justification for it as addressed in the OP isn't exactly the best, he should just be something like "Low 2C; possibly far higher), the justification for far higher stays the same, for low 2-C:

(Swamp Thing gained control over all the elements ,which are the fundamental building blocks of creation , remade the entirety of earth's green, which is one with the time stream after COIE. ) or something like this
 
Okay. Has somebody asked the other members that I listed yet?
 
Thank you, although it seems better to ask all or most of them.
 
Wasn't Swamp Thing also confirmed to be far above the likes of Superman and considers him fodder; as well as being on par with Trigon?
 
Man Swamp Thing is so varies.

And I think his High-Godly Regenerationn should come back since he really was erased out of existence+ The universe he was within.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
God Swamp Thing being Low 2-C is ridiculously limited since he warped the entirety of The Green without being in God Form.
Click to expand...
Hello? He was literally in God form, lol what? I literally showed the scans, it comes from swamp thing vol 4 which is literally the conclusion of what happens after swamp thing gains control over all parliaments, you can put him wherever you want to put the green, and the most we have right now is like low 2C based off the earth's green specifically, if you want, go ahead, post some scans of him being higher, you won't just change the outcome of the thread because you "feel" like its limited, and yes, I know I come off as aggresive but I really can't find another way to word this, sorry.

"And I think his High-Godly Regenerationn should come back since he really was erased out of existence+ The universe he was within."

A universe still existed in crisis on infinite earths issue 10 where the feat takes place, so did his essence, low godly.

"Wasn't Swamp Thing also confirmed to be far above the likes of Superman and considers him fodder"

He admitted superman is above him in the same scan and all he did was mind hax a dying supes.

I addressed the trigon part in the OP, even 50 issues into swamp thing learning his powers, spectre still viewed him as an ant.
 
The Green exists in all universes simultaneously and beyond. You're just being incredibly biased and dishonest.

Swamp Thing stomped both Superman and Captain Atom, defeated a being on the level of Trigon and the Spectre (Pre Crisis), broke through the Source Wall, and reshaped the Green when unbound by morality and humanity.

God Swamp Thing is when he becomes a part of the Parliament of Worlds.

His regen is absolutely High Godly.
 
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