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Luffy vs Ichigo
- Thread starter BMWFanboy
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>7-A vs High 7-A
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Use Soul Society Arc w/o Bankai and Skypiea Luffy instead.
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Following, this just remind me to do a Part 3 with Zoro vs Ichigo battle soon.
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Or a better swordsman from Bleach, because beating Ichigo in a sword fight isn't a great achievement.
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ichigo clashed blade with byakuya and gin without being too outskilledCalaca Vs said:
he also coutered every single senbonzakura blade/petals comming at him with sheer swordmanship speed and observation
what skill in swordmanship zorro have that come close to this ? zorro never really fought expert swordsmans with hundreds years of experience nor displayed being able to repel a 360 degree attack made from hundreds of thousands of blades by repelling each of them.
zorro use mainly brute strengh and speed ironically enough , at last what i know of him .
On the the topic subject , does this luffy have protection against the sheer ammount of reiatsu ichigo unleash passively wich will paralize him or knock him out ?
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People need to stop overrating experience over skill.
Go to Zoro vs Meliodas where Rin made a good post about Zoro's skill. I'm not answering anything right now.
Go to Zoro vs Meliodas where Rin made a good post about Zoro's skill. I'm not answering anything right now.
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https://i.imgur.com/BhSfMOQ.png
wano zorro can't even deflect a few dozens nails fired directly in front of him with two swords
ichigo succesfully deflect at least thousands if not more blades from all directions with a single sword in his first fight in bankai.
case and point .
wano zorro can't even deflect a few dozens nails fired directly in front of him with two swords
ichigo succesfully deflect at least thousands if not more blades from all directions with a single sword in his first fight in bankai.
case and point .
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Boi, it's really good that Ichigo was outspeeding Byakuya during the whole fight.
I could deflect/stop bullets if I were faster than them the same way Ichigo did against the petals.
BTW, rather than a Zoro's anti-feat, that's more of a Hawkins' feat itself.
I could deflect/stop bullets if I were faster than them the same way Ichigo did against the petals.
BTW, rather than a Zoro's anti-feat, that's more of a Hawkins' feat itself.
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the zorro feat proves that he is shit at swordsmanship . The things he does 90% of the time is slicing things really hard . no display of finesse at all cept maybe against Mr1 where he display a bit of mastery being able to cut only if he want to but then end the fight by slicing really really hard .
when he train , it's pure stengh training , lifting stuff and all
so ichigo was thousands of time faster than byakuya ? because to deflect thousands of projectiles comming from all directions by stricking them with your swords with just speed would required you to be ridiculously faster than the said projectiles.
it was a combination of being a bit faster , ichigo's skill and observation
in the newest translated chapter of the novel we find this :
"Hisagi was about to be hit by hundreds of needle-like blades.
'Suzumushi Nishiki: Benihiko'.
Tokinada used this technique without hesitation solely to provoke Hisagi. Although used by Tosen, this formerly belonged to Kakyo, Tokinada's wife.
But then-
The black chain that connected the two swords of Kazeshini accurately countered each of the numerous blades.
"What.....?"
Looking at Hisagi's flawlessly swift manoeuvre of the chain, a movement so fast that it was nearly impossible to see; the smile was wiped off Tokinada's face to be replaced by one of pure shock."
Isagi did this with his eyes closed and repeled hundreds of blades in a single movements of his chain . same as ichigo , this is a combination of speed and skill .
zorro have nothing on this level of actual skill with a weapon .
when he train , it's pure stengh training , lifting stuff and all
so ichigo was thousands of time faster than byakuya ? because to deflect thousands of projectiles comming from all directions by stricking them with your swords with just speed would required you to be ridiculously faster than the said projectiles.
it was a combination of being a bit faster , ichigo's skill and observation
in the newest translated chapter of the novel we find this :
"Hisagi was about to be hit by hundreds of needle-like blades.
'Suzumushi Nishiki: Benihiko'.
Tokinada used this technique without hesitation solely to provoke Hisagi. Although used by Tosen, this formerly belonged to Kakyo, Tokinada's wife.
But then-
The black chain that connected the two swords of Kazeshini accurately countered each of the numerous blades.
"What.....?"
Looking at Hisagi's flawlessly swift manoeuvre of the chain, a movement so fast that it was nearly impossible to see; the smile was wiped off Tokinada's face to be replaced by one of pure shock."
Isagi did this with his eyes closed and repeled hundreds of blades in a single movements of his chain . same as ichigo , this is a combination of speed and skill .
zorro have nothing on this level of actual skill with a weapon .
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Where is it stated that you need to be thousands of times faster than something? If so every character who has once deflected a Danmaku would get someting like that.
Ichigo's skill is above average at best. You could argue that he has talent but the main way he wins his fights is with powerups that amps his stats and not somehting like Kenpachi using Kendo to rekt Nnoitra, for example. I'm not denying that he has some skill, but nowhere near Zoro's.
But I'm okay. Go ahead and think whatever you want. I like the way you downplay using Ichigo, fricking Ichigo as a proof. The guy is literally worst swordsman than Natsu is as a fighter.
Ichigo's skill is above average at best. You could argue that he has talent but the main way he wins his fights is with powerups that amps his stats and not somehting like Kenpachi using Kendo to rekt Nnoitra, for example. I'm not denying that he has some skill, but nowhere near Zoro's.
But I'm okay. Go ahead and think whatever you want. I like the way you downplay using Ichigo, fricking Ichigo as a proof. The guy is literally worst swordsman than Natsu is as a fighter.
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give me actual proof of zorro's skill then , show me feats that display what he can do beside slicing really hard .
i've read his entire respect thread and found nothing that come close to what ichigo displayed .
i've read his entire respect thread and found nothing that come close to what ichigo displayed .
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>States that Zoro just slices really hard
>Says that Ichigo is skilled and he does more than slice and blitz
Hahaha.
Zoro has defeated monkeys who are swordsman with technique mimicry. One of them mimicked Mihawk's style, the guy who can fodderize and outclass swordsmen with a fruit knife.
Has dealt with people with great versatility such as Kaku and his Rokushiki.
Really, dealing with Danmaku is literally the only argument you can bring, and it's more due to Ichigo's stats.
>The enemy starts stomping Ichigo
>Ichigo uses GT and it doesn't work
>Ichigo uses Bankai/Hollow Mask
>Uses GT again and wins
There's literally zero depth in his skill. He hasn't trained Kendo nor something like that. He's a guy with a sword, pretty skilled, yes, but nowhere near as someone with actual skill coming from training.
Zoro's able to overpower and outclass people with more options to attack, such as Hachi and Kaku (and the former did it with a injure that should've killed him in the spot). BTW, Hachi is the second strongest swordsman of his island.
He's so skilled that even the Samurais in Wano were surprised of him cutting a house with a Seppuku knife, with no handle. It's just to pierce the throat. Where's this kind of feat for Ichigo?
>Says that Ichigo is skilled and he does more than slice and blitz
Hahaha.
Zoro has defeated monkeys who are swordsman with technique mimicry. One of them mimicked Mihawk's style, the guy who can fodderize and outclass swordsmen with a fruit knife.
Has dealt with people with great versatility such as Kaku and his Rokushiki.
Really, dealing with Danmaku is literally the only argument you can bring, and it's more due to Ichigo's stats.
>The enemy starts stomping Ichigo
>Ichigo uses GT and it doesn't work
>Ichigo uses Bankai/Hollow Mask
>Uses GT again and wins
There's literally zero depth in his skill. He hasn't trained Kendo nor something like that. He's a guy with a sword, pretty skilled, yes, but nowhere near as someone with actual skill coming from training.
Zoro's able to overpower and outclass people with more options to attack, such as Hachi and Kaku (and the former did it with a injure that should've killed him in the spot). BTW, Hachi is the second strongest swordsman of his island.
He's so skilled that even the Samurais in Wano were surprised of him cutting a house with a Seppuku knife, with no handle. It's just to pierce the throat. Where's this kind of feat for Ichigo?
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> "Zoro can't even deflect a few dozens nails"
> Has deflected Kaku's projectiles and cannonballs, reacted and dodged to several projectiles while casually dealing with multiple bounty hunters, dodged proectiles from Kuma and perfectly sliced through cannonballs while in mid-air, and did so mutiple times, all that before his training with Mihawk.
> Has deflected Kaku's projectiles and cannonballs, reacted and dodged to several projectiles while casually dealing with multiple bounty hunters, dodged proectiles from Kuma and perfectly sliced through cannonballs while in mid-air, and did so mutiple times, all that before his training with Mihawk.
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OP says he can so this is one of those matches for fun that can't be added.1997KD said:
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so monkeys = mihawks, got it.
he beat kaku by magically growing multiple arms and slicing him really hard . say nothing about skill . in this very same fight , zorro fail to counter kaku's rankyaku kiri shigure wich send far less projectiles than sebonzakura. once agains he dislay no skill nor accuracy and just win the fight via endurance and stengh .
ichigo pretty much never won a fight without power up saving his ass , know why? because he is a teenager facing swordsmans hundreds of years old and he is always outskilled or getting overpowered . doesn't mean anything about his skill level , more about the strengh and skill of his ennemies. yet he hold his ground pretty well , countering each of their strikes multiple times.
zorro beating an higly skilled opponent doesn't mean that zorro beat them by having more skill , he could just overpower them.Or do you believe the hulk beating a martial artist is because the hulk outskilled him ?
cut a house with a knife ? i ask a feat of skill , you give a feat of strengh. All that say is that he sliced it really hard , just like he sliced pica , kaku , mr1 and pretty much all his opponents really hard.
ichigo sensed thousands of blades around him that were almost as fast as he was and accuratly strike them down. i'll say that it take far more skill and accuracy that just slicing a house really hard .
zorro and ichigo have a lot in common in terms of stategy and how they fight , blitz and overpower , but ichigo has some real display of skill and accuracy with his sword where zorro fail everytime a real test of skill come his way .
he beat kaku by magically growing multiple arms and slicing him really hard . say nothing about skill . in this very same fight , zorro fail to counter kaku's rankyaku kiri shigure wich send far less projectiles than sebonzakura. once agains he dislay no skill nor accuracy and just win the fight via endurance and stengh .
ichigo pretty much never won a fight without power up saving his ass , know why? because he is a teenager facing swordsmans hundreds of years old and he is always outskilled or getting overpowered . doesn't mean anything about his skill level , more about the strengh and skill of his ennemies. yet he hold his ground pretty well , countering each of their strikes multiple times.
zorro beating an higly skilled opponent doesn't mean that zorro beat them by having more skill , he could just overpower them.Or do you believe the hulk beating a martial artist is because the hulk outskilled him ?
cut a house with a knife ? i ask a feat of skill , you give a feat of strengh. All that say is that he sliced it really hard , just like he sliced pica , kaku , mr1 and pretty much all his opponents really hard.
ichigo sensed thousands of blades around him that were almost as fast as he was and accuratly strike them down. i'll say that it take far more skill and accuracy that just slicing a house really hard .
zorro and ichigo have a lot in common in terms of stategy and how they fight , blitz and overpower , but ichigo has some real display of skill and accuracy with his sword where zorro fail everytime a real test of skill come his way .
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So I guess being capable of instantly using an entirely new style that uses nine swords and requires accurate control over new limbs that you didn't have previously without any problem doesn't say anything about skill.
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after more research on my part , it appear it's just an illusion my bad :https://imgur.com/a/m8dpJ
so either it's an after image so he move so fast he look like he have 9 arms or it's similar to haki to project a vision or something .
still inferior sword play than countering thousands of blades in an instant.
so either it's an after image so he move so fast he look like he have 9 arms or it's similar to haki to project a vision or something .
still inferior sword play than countering thousands of blades in an instant.
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So he did beat Kaku by skill, and not by magically growing new limbs? Nice.
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just by blitzing and slashing him hard i'd say. but i still give zorro credit for the feat if it's after images , if it's just haki like illusions , it's skill , but not with a sword .
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Kaku and Zoro are comparable in speed; if Zoro could blitz him, he would have done it from the beginning.
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kaku just launched an attack that he was sure would be zorro demise and got off guard when zorro slashed it away .
zorro then proceed to blitz in that moment of surprise .
https://imgur.com/a/cSwxa
zorro then proceed to blitz in that moment of surprise .
https://imgur.com/a/cSwxa
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Which Kaku could still have dodged it with Soru, although Zoro probably just antacipated his move like he had done previously, since he is skilled enough to do so, and even if Kaku had dodged and tried to attack Zoro would just deflect everything like he did previously, which he is also skilled enough to do so; but nah, I guess he just magically got faster because of an illusion... somehow.
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you mean like he can just magically make himself stronger by flexing really really hard : https://imgur.com/a/ElOTv
he did it mid fight and didn't use right away , same as his asura mode . wouldn't be out of the picture that he could boost his speed in that last attack .
also , the result is here , kaku couldn't react nor protect himself from this attack . the question is why? because it was too fast for him , thus zorro blitzed .
he did it mid fight and didn't use right away , same as his asura mode . wouldn't be out of the picture that he could boost his speed in that last attack .
also , the result is here , kaku couldn't react nor protect himself from this attack . the question is why? because it was too fast for him , thus zorro blitzed .
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Back on topic guys because this thread derailed immensely, Luffy scales to 1.5 gigatons which means he is roughly x2 Ichigo at best since SS Bankai >> Post Kenny Shikai >= SS Kenny > Toshiro = 657. Because Speed equal hasn't happened for whatever reason, Ichigo blitzes and GTs Luffy's head off.
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I like how you ignored 90% of my comment where I show feats of his skill being comparable to Kaku's (kind of like you ignored 100% of my last comment about Zoro being good at reflecting attacks), but don't worry, I have it right here:Naeblis495 said:
Zoro anticipates Kaku's move and counters it, Zoro simulatnously deflects a bunch of attack from Kaku (showing that he can also handle Danmaku if needed), dodges attack from Kaku and blocks sword attacks from him, more deflecting, keeps up with Kaku in cqc multiple times, etc.
It's not surprising that he is skilled enough to keep up with Kaku tho, this is the same guy who can fight equally with and defeat Ryuma, who is a several hundred years old samurai and has massive amount of battle experience, as well as being skilled enough to cut people without them even realising until they walk three meters away, and did so not by "slicing really hard", since the page clearly says Ryuma is strong enough to fight in ever ground with Zoro.
So, yeah, Zoro does much more than just slice stuff, which, again, shouldn't be that surprising, since the page clearly says he is a combat genius, both of them.
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I'm sorry but Zoro's skill is being downplayed here.
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Guys ...... Zoro doesn't matter here. Its Ichigo vs Luffy. If you guys feel so strongly that Ichigo or Zoro outskill the other, go make a separate thread about it.
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Meh, I don't really care for the fight itself, I'm just here because I saw some Zoro disrespect. You guys can just move on if you want.
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Dude I got so confused, I thought there was a seperate thread were it was Zoro vs Ichigo but it was the same Luffy vs Ichigo thread.
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Wait, is this still going? Okay.
>Zoro didn't deflect the Kiri Shigure
Rankyaku projectiles so small they are invisible to the human eye. Nor even your loved Ichigo would deflect something he can't fully see.
>Ichigo never won a fight without a power up
My point. He doesn't rely on skill at all. He overpowers his opponent, no matter the amount of experience. Kenpachi stomped him in his firts encounter, and only kept up after he went from 7-C to 7-
>zorro beating an higly skilled opponent doesn't mean that zorro beat them by having more skill , he could just overpower them.Or do you believe the hulk beating a martial artist is because the hulk outskilled him ?
What a coincidence. I say the same for Ichigo
Thanks for pointing my argument so good. BTW, Zoro Pre Timeskip never win because he is insanely superior to his opponent. In fact, he always fight with plenty of disadvantages, like being seriously injured, against opponents who can predict his attacks while he can't see them (like Ohm, the guy who Zoro defeated after predicting the attack and deflected it).
I bet I couldn't slice a house with a knife that has no handle without cutting my fingers in the process. The technique he used to "cut iron" isn't slicing really hard. It comes to a state of mind. In his fight against Kaku he used the same technique to cut the Tekkai, but it did no effect because Kaku didn't used Tekkai in that instance, stating that if he doesn't use Tekkai, that technique wouldn't affect him.
Easy to be accurate when you're far faster than the projectiles.
Ichigo has never predicted the movements of his opponent and acted in consequence. Zoro did. Predicting an attack >>> Deflecting projectiles.
But anyway, back on topic, Luffy scales to 3.62GT, and with speed unequal Ichigo blitzes.
>Zoro didn't deflect the Kiri Shigure
Rankyaku projectiles so small they are invisible to the human eye. Nor even your loved Ichigo would deflect something he can't fully see.
>Ichigo never won a fight without a power up
My point. He doesn't rely on skill at all. He overpowers his opponent, no matter the amount of experience. Kenpachi stomped him in his firts encounter, and only kept up after he went from 7-C to 7-
>zorro beating an higly skilled opponent doesn't mean that zorro beat them by having more skill , he could just overpower them.Or do you believe the hulk beating a martial artist is because the hulk outskilled him ?
What a coincidence. I say the same for Ichigo
Thanks for pointing my argument so good. BTW, Zoro Pre Timeskip never win because he is insanely superior to his opponent. In fact, he always fight with plenty of disadvantages, like being seriously injured, against opponents who can predict his attacks while he can't see them (like Ohm, the guy who Zoro defeated after predicting the attack and deflected it).I bet I couldn't slice a house with a knife that has no handle without cutting my fingers in the process. The technique he used to "cut iron" isn't slicing really hard. It comes to a state of mind. In his fight against Kaku he used the same technique to cut the Tekkai, but it did no effect because Kaku didn't used Tekkai in that instance, stating that if he doesn't use Tekkai, that technique wouldn't affect him.
Easy to be accurate when you're far faster than the projectiles.
Ichigo has never predicted the movements of his opponent and acted in consequence. Zoro did. Predicting an attack >>> Deflecting projectiles.
But anyway, back on topic, Luffy scales to 3.62GT, and with speed unequal Ichigo blitzes.
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>Started with a mismatch of Liffy vs Strawberry.
>Has now devoled into Zolo vs Strawberry somehow and is getting progressively worse.
Starting to agree with those ban HST matches mindsets. And wasn't Bleach vs One Piece generally avoided anyway because Reiatsu Crush gg?
>Has now devoled into Zolo vs Strawberry somehow and is getting progressively worse.
Starting to agree with those ban HST matches mindsets. And wasn't Bleach vs One Piece generally avoided anyway because Reiatsu Crush gg?
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Eh, while I'd put Zoro's sword skills above Ichigos, I would say that most of Zoro's feats are more so strength than skill.
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Both Ichigo and Zoro are great swordsmen. From Ichigos perspective the main difference is that he has more speed and strength due to being a shinigami. From Zoro's perspective it can definitely be argued that his swordsmanship far surpasses Ichigo's due to having the passion to being the greatest swordsman in the world. In Zoro's defense, he wins his fights by utilizing techniques while not having access to overwhelming power. Ichigo keeps up with the likes of Byakuya (who should have superior swordsmanship) because Ichigo's latent abilities gives him a reservoir of power to lean on.
swordsmanship: Zoro > Ichigo
latent abilities: Ichigo > Zoro
Current luffy's observation Haki should be enough to see Ichigo's attacks. You cannot disprove this. Since we're talking about Skypeia Luffy though let's say he can see Ichigo. I'd go with Ichigo because he has more reach with GT and Liffy is weak to sharp attacks.
Ichigo 1
swordsmanship: Zoro > Ichigo
latent abilities: Ichigo > Zoro
Current luffy's observation Haki should be enough to see Ichigo's attacks. You cannot disprove this. Since we're talking about Skypeia Luffy though let's say he can see Ichigo. I'd go with Ichigo because he has more reach with GT and Liffy is weak to sharp attacks.
Ichigo 1
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lol what
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^
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^^
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^^^
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