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All Fiction vs Determination. Who wins between these two who won't die?
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Frisk vs Misogi Kumagawa
- Thread starter The_real_cal_howard
- Start date
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This... look like a stomp
This is coming from a Medaka Box's fan
This is coming from a Medaka Box's fan
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Which Frisk is this? True Pacifist or Neutral?
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Also, the animation is Flawed; Frisk's shirt only has two stripes.
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Whichever warrants the 2B rating.
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Frisk has two stripes.Gnomishness said:
Chara's the one with a single stripe.
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How is it a stomp? Serious question. I know the previous interrogative sentence can be seen otherwise. Anyway, the unknown rating gives me a wide range of tiers he could face, and durability ingnorance and reality warping could be helpful, along with self-ressurection.MagiSinbad said:
For the record, I'm not on anyone's side right now, so I'm not trying to rig it in anyone's favor. I don't like OP hax, so using Medaka Box and U-Tale are self-controversial, no matter how much I love the latter.
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Frisk has two stripes.
Chara's the one with a single stripe.
Yea. Sorry. I meant to say that...
The point is that the Gif, having three stripes, does not have the correct number.
(Wow I must have spaced out writing that..)
Chara's the one with a single stripe.
Yea. Sorry. I meant to say that...
The point is that the Gif, having three stripes, does not have the correct number.
(Wow I must have spaced out writing that..)
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>Frisk's shirt has incorrect number of stripes
Worst crime in the history of man
Thread expunged from records
Cal banned for one million years
Worst crime in the history of man
Thread expunged from records
Cal banned for one million years
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How is it a stomp? Serious question. I know the previous interrogative sentence can be seen otherwise. Anyway, the unknown rating gives me a wide range of tiers he could face, and durability ingnorance and reality warping could be helpful, along with self-ressurection.
For the record, I'm not on anyone's side right now, so I'm not trying to rig it in anyone's favor. I don't like OP hax, so using Medaka Box and U-Tale are self-controversial, no matter how much I love the latter.
People might be calling it a stomp due to The sheer endless durability of Frisk and that All Fiction has no chance at erasing something as persistent as them, but seriously, the nature of this debate varies wildly on which Frisk we're using...
Pacifist or neutral?
For the record, I'm not on anyone's side right now, so I'm not trying to rig it in anyone's favor. I don't like OP hax, so using Medaka Box and U-Tale are self-controversial, no matter how much I love the latter.
People might be calling it a stomp due to The sheer endless durability of Frisk and that All Fiction has no chance at erasing something as persistent as them, but seriously, the nature of this debate varies wildly on which Frisk we're using...
Pacifist or neutral?
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No, please! Have mercy! SPARE me, please! lolAzathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
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@Gnomishness
The Frisk that warrants the 2-B rating, although I believe it's the same Frisk, as he still time travels between the two routes, only canonically stopping when he gets the True Pacifist ending.
The Frisk that warrants the 2-B rating, although I believe it's the same Frisk, as he still time travels between the two routes, only canonically stopping when he gets the True Pacifist ending.
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Is it a 2B rating?The real cal howard said:
I thought it was higher than that...
If Asriel, a 2A character, had trouble finishing off Max-determination, True-Pacifist Frisk, I would've thought Frisk's Durability would have also been in the realm of 2A...
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Depends if the Frisk is Pacifist or Genocide. But if it's Pacifist, then it's determined by how much DETERMINATION Frisk has during the fight.Gnomishness said:
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Frisk's durability is 2-A. Durability doesn't determine tier. Frisk couldn't hurt Asriel, but he could hurt Flowey, albeit minimally, which warrants 2-B. And to Mirthful, this is THAT Frisk, not Frisk/Chara.Gnomishness said:
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Sorry. I was under the impression that only a character's highest stat type is typically used to determine their tier and that the lower sides of their stats don't typically bring it down.The real cal howard said:
So Neutral Frisk? I think that there is the 'potential' for all-fiction to work here.The real cal howard said:
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Speed is unequalized so... Frisk
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Frisk has higher speed and durability, as well as probably higher AP (even us Medaka Box fans typically only look at Kumagawa as 2C at best). So I'd say Frisk stomps
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Well, Kumagawa can reduce time to 0, so he's tecnically "faster", and his durability is tecnically limitless, since he can negate fatigue and damage too.
And since All Fiction can erase "everything" from existence, maybe it can erase the save file too, and maybe determination itself (when All Fiction becomes complete again in Iihiko arc, Kumagawa says it can erase feelings, so it's not completely impossible, even if I doubt he could actually do it).
Also, Bookmaker should work pretty well against determination, since Frisk's mental strenght would be lowered to Kumagawa's level.
I'm not saying Kumagawa is certainly stronger, but I don't think Frisk has that much of an advantage like most of people seems to believe, it is probably an even match.
And since All Fiction can erase "everything" from existence, maybe it can erase the save file too, and maybe determination itself (when All Fiction becomes complete again in Iihiko arc, Kumagawa says it can erase feelings, so it's not completely impossible, even if I doubt he could actually do it).
Also, Bookmaker should work pretty well against determination, since Frisk's mental strenght would be lowered to Kumagawa's level.
I'm not saying Kumagawa is certainly stronger, but I don't think Frisk has that much of an advantage like most of people seems to believe, it is probably an even match.
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Frisk is immeasurable, Kumagawa is at best infinite speed, so Frisk is still faster, and Frisk has resisted a much more powerful being erasing him from existence, so he doesn't really need that save file in the first place
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Well, I guess it makes sense, but I'm not sure about this:
"Frisk has resisted a much more powerful being erasing him from existence"
Tecnically, Asriel didn't want to erase Frisk, he just wanted to play with him forever, so I'm not sure he tried to erase Frisk from existence, he probably just deleted his save file to force Frisk to restart everything.
"Frisk has resisted a much more powerful being erasing him from existence"
Tecnically, Asriel didn't want to erase Frisk, he just wanted to play with him forever, so I'm not sure he tried to erase Frisk from existence, he probably just deleted his save file to force Frisk to restart everything.
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No, Asriel was explicitly trying to erase Frisk so that he could just reset everything. That's the whole reason Frisk was so determined to stay alive. If Flowey killed them, they could always try again, because Flowey simply wanted to torture them and mess with them. If they had been fully destroyed by Asriel, that would be it. They'd have to start over.Kami95 said:
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It makes sense. Ok then, Frisk would probably win, if he has enough determination when the battle starts (unless All Fiction can erase determination itself, but it probably can't).
Oh, wait, wouldn't Kumagawa still resurrect? Maybe Frisk can't lose against him, but can he permanently kill him? Or would it be an endless battle?
Oh, wait, wouldn't Kumagawa still resurrect? Maybe Frisk can't lose against him, but can he permanently kill him? Or would it be an endless battle?
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Depends. If Frisk can harm God Flowey (albeit slightly), they can theoretically just break reality (like Chara did), buuuuut...that doesn't seem like the kind of thing they'd do.Kami95 said:
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So in character it's inconclusive, but out of character it's a stomp for Frisk?
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Pretty much, yes.Blahblah9755 said:
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VsBattles Rules state that this is in character, but willing to kill.
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There's a big difference between willing to kill and willing to end the universe thoughThe real cal howard said:
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That is a big difference, esp. as Frisk would be one of the last people to try to end the universe. I can name 100 good characters that would destroy the universe before Frisk.
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can't All fiction turn frisk's determination into something else like depression, sickness?
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Doubtful. All Fiction has never shown to work on a beyond universal scale (which Determination has), and by Determination's very nature, it would likely go like this.Eldritch abomination said:
>All Fiction attempts to change the nature of Determination
>Determination refuses to change. Because it's too Determined.
That's pretty much how the power works.
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Determination is one of the biggest "Nopes" to other OP characters, that I've ever seen.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
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Well as long as Frisk doesn't take him out straight away, Kumagawa should be able to erase time to make his attack instant (since it's basically time stop) but Frisk could take him out in one blow if he wanted to and with standard vsbattles assumptions he probably would. And who knows, with something on the level of determination they might just be determined to not have their time erased
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Time being erased probably wouldn't affect Frisk. They kept fighting Asriel even after he had erased the timeline.Blahblah9755 said:
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Oh yeah good point, I keep forgetting about that
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Wait but weren't they unable to really perform any action? So it might still take effect?
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They were only unable to take action after Asriel went 100% and activated "Angel of Death". And even then, they were still able to eventually act anyway due to their own Determination.
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Frisk wasn't able to fight back, sure, but Asriel was infinitely more powerful than them, literally. If you're referring to Frisk being unable to move during a certain move, that was because Asriel probably was doing something to stop them.Blahblah9755 said:
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Okay, thanks for clearing that up
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