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Problems with the World of Darkness Profiles

Ultima_Reality

Ultima_Reality

?????????
VS Battles
Administrator
5,465
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So, The Everlasting summed up the problems with the World of Darkness pages, which Matt posted in the Upgrade Thread, but I figured a new thread altogether would get more attention, so here we go:


For God:


  • First up why is God listed as female? The text repeatedly uses male pronouns
  • Quantum Manipulation, Immortality (Type 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 8) and Mid-Godly have no justifications
  • Hellfire Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Law Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, Time Manipulation, Spatial Manipulation and Death Manipulation all stem from "Created XYZ that can do this", Causality Manipulation by creating causality is also pretty flimsy
  • Type 5 Acausality has no backing
  • Type 1 Abstract Existence has really lackluster justifications, and Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation has no justification at all
  • Gives Type 9/10 Large Size based on God being called an "infinite existence"
  • "Immortality and Regenerationn negation (Mid-Godly and Type 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, and 8)" and Resistance Negation, all absurdly high-end powers with no justifications
  • Data Manipulation comes from absolutely nothing. Seriously, the scan says nothing about it
  • Resisting Time, Soul and Spatial Manipulation by existing before these elements, time for all creator gods to resist ALL powers
  • Planck Length Matter Manipulation doesn't mention planck... or matter... or even God
  • Resisting various other powers from entities "infinite infinities" (See below) weaker really doesn't count for anything
  • The Avatars key seems superfluous because nothing in the scan mentions avatars
  • The 6 dimensions thing is both listed twice for different justifications for the same tier, and really just seems like technobabble
  • The "infinite infinities above angels" thing is utter nonsense, it's only that the Angels call God the "Infinite of Infinities" as a title
  • Infinite multiverses are never mentioned, and the infinite Heavens is explicitly just theoretical
  • A single mention of quantum physics does not warrant the "possibly far higher", and the "may contain many more dimensions" bit only mentions four dimensions

For Demons:


  • Yet again, Quantum Manipulation with no justification, same with Immortality (Type 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 8) and Mid-Godly regen
  • Why is it mentioned that they created the spheres if God ALSO did that? Makes no sense
  • Planck length Matter Manipulation, see above
  • Type 5 Acausality, Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation, Type 2 Abstract Existence, Immortality and Regenerationn negation (Mid-Godly and Type 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, and 8) and Resistance Negation, see above
  • Information Manipulation, yet again, see above
  • A mention of "normal perception of four-dimensional space" somehow justifying 5-D
  • "possibly far higher" is listed twice for Demons
  • Somehow using a Demon's own boasting to justify that they're comparable to God (So much for "infinite infinities above")
  • Immeasurable with no justification

And finally, for the Mage:


  • Low-Godly regen justification seems flimsy
  • No justification for Atomic level Matter Manipulation
  • Immortality (Types 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, and 8) and Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation, dear god why is it so hard to explain where these abilities come from?
  • "Resistance to Telekinesis, Transmutation, Matter Manipulation, Life Manipulation, Biological Manipulation, Existence Erasure, Fate Manipulation, Probability Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Soul Manipulation, Law Manipulation, Elemental Manipulation and Many more abilities", all with no justification
  • The universes they create are blatantly just pocket universes that are smaller than the main universe, not Low 2-C
  • 5-D yet again coming out of nowhere from the "normal perception of four-dimensional space" thing
  • No scan for them creating a 5-D library

Finally, on the Vampire's page:


"Magic (Via Thamaturgy), Mind Manipulation (Via Dominate), Necromancy (via Necromancy), Blood Manipulation (Via Thamaturgy), Shapeshifting (Via Protean), Superhuman Speed (via celerity), Reality Warping (via Chimerstry), Darkness Manipulation (Via Obtenebration), Animal Manipulation (Via Animalism), Invisibility (Via Obfuscate), Life Manipulation (Via Vicissitude), Telepathy (Via Auspex)"

Just saying "via this thing" while not explaining what that thing does or is, nice.
 
That op is painful to read ovo

But yeah ive already talked to people about this both on and off-wiki and i agree
 
WeeklyBattles said:
That op is painful to read ovo
But yeah ive already talked to people about this both on and off-wiki and i agree
Click to expand...
Shut up I already fixed it. ovo
 
> The "infinite infinities above angels" thing is utter nonsense, it's only that the Angels call God the "Infinite of Infinities" as a title

Yeah I talked about that in another thread. God being the infinite of infinities at best means it's infinitely above an angel which doesn't warrant a dimensional upgrade.
 
I've just addressed this in another thread, and for the Vampire one, I had nothing to do with it, so you can keep me out of that.
 
Wow, Matthew, this is new levels of Toxic, not even allowing any explainations, lovely. But allow me to show you that what you put was wrong:

>First up why is God listed as female? The text repeatedly uses male pronouns

Days of Fire specifically calls God she, she is never called anything else throughout the entire book. The Picture on her profile is her. God is a she.

>Quantum Manipulation, Immortality (Type 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 8) and Mid-Godly have no justifications

Quantum Manipulation: https://i.imgur.com/Sg27dK3.png https://imgur.com/Bhj5JX0 https://imgur.com/nygRUca

Type 1, 2 and 3 are basic and I assume you understand that God would have these, I hope you have the common sense for it.

Type 4, You're right, Type 4 should't be on there.

Type 5,Angels are Deathless beings, Angels are just fragments of God.

Type 8, God is one with Creation to destroy God, one must destroy Creation. Creation is literally made upon God.

Mid-Godly: Already went over in this thread here .

>Type 5 Acausality has no backing

Went over this here .

>Type 1 Abstract Existence has really lackluster justifications, and Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation has no justification at all

Angels created all Concepts in reality, Angels are just fragments of God.

Here's God creating the Concept of Death directly.

>Gives Type 9/10 Large Size based on God being called an "infinite existence"

Everything is created on God, God is stated to be all creation etc.

>"Immortality and Regenerationn negation (Mid-Godly and Type 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7, and 8)" and Resistance Negation, all absurdly high-end powers with no justifications

Again, I hope you have the common sense to understand that 1, 2 and 3 would be a given for the Angels and Demons.

Type 4 is being able to completely ignore this .

Type 5, God has killed Type 5s, additionally, the Angels do this, as they are able to inflict Death upon the Demons. This is shown over the Age of Astrosities.

Type 7, Undead, God can ignore Undeath of Liches, from Archmage. And naturally Caine and his Vampires. After all, he gave Caine his Undeath.

Type 8, same thing, she can neg Liches.

>Data Manipulation comes from absolutely nothing. Seriously, the scan says nothing about it

Went through this in this thead...again.

>Resisting Time, Soul and Spatial Manipulation by existing before these elements, time for all creator gods to resist ALL powers

I'm not sure what you're trying to put here? But God is also immune to the attempts at harming him from the Archmages, who can do all of the above.

>Resisting various other powers from entities "infinite infinities" (See below) weaker really doesn't count for anything

Actually, we've consider that more so just Infinitely above instead of Infinite infinities, as it seems much more like the former and the latter being flowery talk for the former.

>Planck Length Matter Manipulation doesn't mention planck... or matter... or even God

See above.

>The Avatars key seems superfluous because nothing in the scan mentions avatars

This was one of the things I was going to cover in a Respect thread I was going to make when I had the time, because it is constantly stated that in Days of Fire that God's infinity cannot touch Finite, this is also backed up by the statement that God is too powerful to even create Creation and has to use the smallest fragments of his power to create the Angels.

>The 6 dimensions thing is both listed twice for different justifications for the same tier, and really just seems like technobabble

I'm not even sure what you're trying to prove with this? If you want more, there's Atlantis which is stated to have be in Several metaphysical dimensions, low-balling to 3 (Several meaning more than 2) then Atlantis exist in 6 dimensions.

>The "infinite infinities above angels" thing is utter nonsense, it's only that the Angels call God the "Infinite of Infinities" as a title

Wait, why did you use this as justifications for him not to have powers but then say that the statement shouldn't be used? That's very depicidous. And see above.

>Infinite multiverses are never mentioned, and the infinite Heavens is explicitly just theoretical

See my comments above this one.

>A single mention of quantum physics does not warrant the "possibly far higher", and the "may contain many more dimensions" bit only mentions four dimensions

See above.
 
This entire thing could have been avoided in two ways:

1.) Just post a message on my wall asking for justifications, believe it or not, I do respond to posts on my wall, most of all when things are asking for justifications, but nope, you chose to make it a public spectacle.

2.) Simply have messaged me and waited for me to get some help with King of Negativity and create a Respect thread.

But again, you chose to make this a public spectacle because, to be honest, it feels like you wanted your pound of flesh to rail on.
 
Apparently if the profile has type 3, type 2 is redundant and doesn't need to be there. Type 3 is tied to Regen though, and as such the justification for that would be the lacking thing.
 
Also how is questioning a profile at all toxic? Are all CRTs now malicious? Is quality control inherently bad? Calm down, and stop letting your attachment to your profile cloud your judgement. Matt isn't even the OP. Even if you have justifications, clearly they're not on the file, as they should be.
 
So like, is God a her, him, or both. Or is it one of those beyond gender sort of things.
 
Wokistan said:
Also how is questioning a profile at all toxic? Are all CRTs now malicious? Is quality control inherently bad? Calm down, and stop letting your attachment to your profile cloud your judgement. Matt isn't even the OP. Even if you have justifications, clearly they're not on the file, as they should be.
Click to expand...
I copied and pasted my response from another thread because it's the exact same thing.

With it saying, "You might as well delete the page from how terrible it is." not even allowing a response. Which is very toxic behavour, and I have had my patience worn thing by Matthew's poking tactics where they have stated they have had issues, I have offered to show them and they've not responded despite my attempts.

For example, in another thread Dragon asked me to prove how the Angels created all Creation, I gave him several sources in a large paragraph, I then asked "Is this enough, I can get more"

And the response I got was from Matthew saying "No." and nothing else, not explaining why or anything of the sort.

I asked why but not response, he did a similar thing saying that he has issues with the verse, I confronted him about this and he stopped messaging to then throw both a large message in another thread and with Ultima create this.
 
Wokistan said:
Making threads like this for sketchy profiles is standard procedure. It's even happened to me, and still isn't done half a year later, it's not a reason to take offense.
Click to expand...
What Wok said. For example, pretty much everyone's taken pot-shots at Pokemon at this point, be it Assalt, Kep, Matt, Sera, etc. No need to get so worked up about it.
 
The real cal howard said:
What Wok said. For example, pretty much everyone's taken pot-shots at Pokemon at this point, be it Assalt, Kep, Matt, Sera, etc. No need to get so worked up about it.
Click to expand...
That's not why I keep getting frustrated.

It's only me against the world with these profiles, I've asked around for Help and the closest I've gotten is that King of Negativity is going to start reading up on Demon, the Fallen eventually.

When a new "WoD is terrible" thread shows up I get an increasingly heavier headache because it is me against everyone else with it. I have no help.

I am getting frustrated because I am stuck arguing by my self, I have shown sources and they get dismissed, I have no one to support me with claims I've missed, it's me reading constantly through multiple dozens of books daily just so give a citation, I've even said to Ant that I would create a Respect thread when I have the time.

But with every new step I take with new sources, I have to spend another 3 hours showing the same sources again and again. And it's exhausing, most of all because I don't like making edits to the profiles because I am bad at formatting. And it's not like I have any help to do it for me.

Ant's been the most helpful with WoD because he's been spending his time helping me out with my poor formatting.

I am alone in this, and commonly alone when 1 question is asked that requires citation, it's killing any fun I had for making the profile.

And then it gets more annoying when I ask to illuminate a situation and I am ignored, I go out my way to talk to Mods about abilities and do they apply just to then have another thread like this one when they can just ASK me on my message board.
 
Ultima Reality said:
People are not supposed to go through a bunch of Threads to get an idea of God's Powers, they should be properly justified in the page itself and not thrown around randomly and only explained throughout several scattered discussions.
Click to expand...
Like I said, I was going to make a Respect thread. But now I am forced to rush my research and throw out all my sources hastily because people couldn't wait for me to finish my research, I am doing this alone, so it's going to take some time, I've asked that repeatedly.
 
What I'd advise is to make a large blog or something, with your justifications for everything, for profiles of this sort of ilk. Then, you can direct people there when they disagree. I wouldn't post a profile I'm not ready to defend, in the future make sure you've got your sources and stuff set up first so its less of a hassle.

On one of my sandboxes I've been collecting relevant quotes to things, you may want to try that.
 
You know that if a profile is temporarily deleted, it can just be restored, right? YOu can be given the source code, save that as a blog, complete your respect thread at your own pace, then repost the files when you're ready. Seems like a better idea then trying to rush your research.
 
@Udimaster

With all due respect, if questioning about the validity of the powers are happening so frequently that it is killing the fun of making the profile, then it's a bad profile. Some characters have massive explanations justifying their powers. Some have blogs. Some of explanations and blogs. If your profile has none of these and the closest thing to it is random VS threads and wall messages, there is a problem that needs addressing.

That's not even diving into the real content of what you posted, some of which doesn't justify what you're claiming it does.
 
Assalt is right. Entire verses have been deleted or were in danger of being deleted for lack of information or questionable information.
 
Wokistan said:
What I'd advise is to make a large blog or something, with your justifications for everything, for profiles of this sort of ilk. Then, you can direct people there when they disagree. I wouldn't post a profile I'm not ready to defend, in the future make sure you've got your sources and stuff set up first so its less of a hassle.
On one of my sandboxes I've been collecting relevant quotes to things, you may want to try that.
Click to expand...
Thing is, I stand by what I have put, I do believe what I have put is correct.

But there is so much more I need to research. That's why I've been going around asking for help.

Yes, the current profile is scattered, but what is on there has been checked over, I've been put under scrutiny a lot, by Dragon, Ant and a few others.

But I am only human, my stamina only goes so far and my will is finite. Going solo on a verse is incredibly stressful, which is why I have asked for help.

And again, is why I was going to compile everything I had, what was going to be added etc into a Respect thread, I've found more I could add, I've got multiple tabs of imgur albums with relevent quotes, but when a new thread like this pops up, I have to stop my research, stop my attempts at making the Respect thread to answer the questions because I am the only one who can do it because no one else cares about World of Darkness.
 
If you're getting stressed out trying to constantly defend the file while you're trying to get a respect thread organized, rather than make it worse on youtself by having to rush, I would honestly just let it get temporarily removed, you save it as a blog or on your sandbox, then you can finish at a pace you're comfortable with. Once you're done with your justifications for everything, things should go much more smoothly from there. It'll save everyone a lot of time and stress.
 
Darkanine said:
With all due respect, you should've made the respect thread before the profiles to avoid stuff like this.
I have a friend whose really into World of Darkness so I asked him for some information on it.
Click to expand...
If you could send me their names, I'd love help.
 
His wikia account is Albente but he doesn't do much here anymore.

He told me the powers for the vampires are legit, but they don't apply to every clan, for what it's worth.
 
Well the vampires aren't being questioned here and if they don't apply to every clan/group then confirmation of accuracy of their powers doesn't help the current situation.
 
Alright. So can you be more specific with your "discussed here" links for the ability justifications? Some of those are massive conversations that go on with "that isn't justification" for quite some time.
 
Yeah, I've got my hands more than full with God, Angels/Demons and the Mages, I'm not delving into Vampires as well, they have the most lore as well.
 
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