Minecraft Steve: a correction, a question, and vs Terrarian debate...tion

Correction:

*"Potion of the Turtle Master: Dramatically increases their offenses at the cost of speed." It dramatically increases defense, not offense.

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Question:

"Water Manipulation (Can use water to propel themselves in the air at high speeds when water is nearby)"

I know this is about the trident's riptide enchantment, but I don't see how this correlates to water manipulation at all.

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Debation:

Why don't we have a section for Creative Mode Steve? Steve would be at least moon level for being able to destroy command blocks. Moon Level Steve vs Moon level Terrarian? Am I the only person who sees this golden opportunity?


Update: The correction still needs to be done, the question has been resolved, and now the biggest chunk of this thread is the debation. That part will be resolve once we can resolve whether or not Creative mode is canon or noncanon, which is the current topic at hand.

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Creative steve would be a haxed as hell high 3-A

I'm sure Steve's AP would only be an At least 5-C, possibly High 3-A since that's what the command blocks' durability is.

2. Cause iirc, it uses the water to launch himself

3. Creative Mode is not canon

2. Fair enough.

3. What canon is there in minecraft to begin with? If anything, going by the end credits, creative mode Steve is nothing but another avatar.

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Game mechanics like Creative Mode are only canon if they've been stated or showed to be, which isn't the case here.

So what's the difference between survival mode and creative mode to the point where one is canon and one isn't?

Because Creative Mode is literally an in-game cheat mode compared to Survival Mode and doesn't make much sense in-universe, given that most other sources (End Poem and Mobestiary) treat the player like how they are in survival mode, not in full god mode.

I've never heard of the Mobestiary before, but unless there is something in that which explains why creative mode isn't again, does this mean we're simply calling creative mode noncanon based off of assumptions?

You don't need to prove that a cheat mode is not canon. It's a basic assumption that such things aren't canon at all, and Minecraft having some game mechanics be canon doesn't change that fact.

But going by what's stated in the Cano page, it doesn't seem to break any rules to be considered canon at all.

Probably because it's relatively basic knowledge that game mechanics aren't canon. Arguably they're even more than non-canon, since they aren't actually part of the setting of the game at all.

We have an entire page dedicated to this.

The problem I have here is that Creative mode doesn't fit the bill for 'game mechanics' at all, according to the page you linked me too.

But @Saik Survival mode is a part of setting of the game (seriously) unless you considered it as so called "default" setting is a canon.

A cheat mode is game mechanics. Because it's not part of the character's actual power set and is just a bonus to allow the player to mess around with the game. The actual character doesn't have the power to suddenly reality warp at a whim.

It's not just that survival is the default. It's that the entire game is built around it. Nearly every block, entity, items, etc. are made to fit within the setting of a survival world. They aren't meant for a reality warping 5-C beings that can create anything out of thin. It is also contradictory to the Mobestiary, which describes the Minecraft worlds how they are in survival, with one or more survivors living a survival game in the MC worlds.

"The actual character doesn't have the power to suddenly reality warp at a whim."

I'm not saying that Survival mode Steve and creative mode Steve are the exact same character. I'm saying that there is nothing according to this wiki's standards that say a "cheat" mode is game mechanics when the "cheat" mode is a mode about creating. Cheat mode sounds more like survival mode with commands on.

"It's that the entire game is built around it."

The point of 'creative mode' is to create, I don't see how a sandbox game isn't made for creative mode. And If I remember correctly, survival mode wasn't even implemented until later early updates. Also to note, I don't see how the Mobestiary is the bible to what is canon and what isn't when the book's purpose is only to describe mobs, according to the summaries of the book I've seen online.

Cheat mode: on/off is a GUI just a G.U.I. but don't be deceive by "Cheat mode" word because it's normally considered a "cheat" to survival mode, but it's more specifically an Operator mode.

Game modes and Operator mode has difference: survival mode is a default setting of creating a new world, and the adventure mode is a "restriction" and a gamemode version of "immutable world" command, it's a mode intended for player-created maps which means the entire purpose of the mode was based on minigames, and the creative mode is a "state of being" which allows to access the commands in default setting, and the operator is a literal "permission" to use the power of commands which normally means that the other creative players doesn't have power to use commands.

Creative mode powers doesn't mean everyone's creative mode has access to commands powers.

Though unlike GTA cheat codes (are actual cheat mode), in Minecraft so called commands should be a canon because Command Block exist as functional blocks implemented to the game which give it more reason to be as canon, and the commands were intended to serve to Creative mode which is the default setting of the Creative mode normally.

This explains gamemodes are varied to the game. Survival, Hardcore, and Creative modes are three diverse Main keys. Hardcore key: is fitting to type 9/respawn haters logically (and basically a Gary Stu.). Survival key: is normally based on Mobestiary lore and Survival Gameplay lore. Creative key: has access to commands, command block, adventure mode, spectator mode, and etc.... This give the profile of the Player and the Game itself a reason being a sandbox verse rather than "survival only" limited only.

Well @Saik I could disagree with Command Block scales to blast resistance as durability because of it contradicts the hardness and its purpose in the game. If hardness isn't applied while all blast resistance are considered "canon" applied to vsbattle then the portals and barrier (including world border) is breakable by logic. Since the "explosion" are based on blast radius (IRL scaling) and uses the commands to destroy the bedrock which contradicts blast resistance and altered physics in Minecraft ("rays"). I believed the explosions in Minecraft is made entirely different in real life explosions because "rays" are rules and constant in the survival or creative modes, AoE nuke explosion in Minecraft is not even a perfect circle but a cube explosio. Also the fact that some blast resistance in the game were hardware-implemented.

Well they don't have suitable scaling for Minecraft explosion so yeah they scales to blast resistance based on creative mode and commands. Story mode doesn't have commands. Admin is not the same as Creative mode so Admin is pseudo-creative mode. Command Block in Story Mode is a spin-off version of the Command Block game version though.

@Saik this is... I'm unfortunate because I don't have money to buy Official Minecraft Books by Mojang. Since official books from Mojang are canon, then "exploded builds: medieval fortress" and all guide-type books are considered user-implemented, and "The Island" is spin-off, and both the Blockopedia and Mobestiary are informative to the environmental lore of Minecraft.

PS. I used "hardware-implemented" to differetiate something to user-implemented and gamemechanics because gamemechanics are refers to physics/game logics doesn't exist in actual battle, and the user-implemented is refers to the Player, and finally hardware-implemented is something refers to the "limit" of the game or the hardware itself.

Lol this makes sense some people claims that the entire Minecraft is non-canon/gamemechanics.

Edit: "The actual character doesn't have the power to suddenly reality warp at a whim."

Maybe we need to separate Steve from the Player until Minecraft: Movie releases. Because Steve and Alex are just two portrayals what you could be in this be in this (Minecraft) world. Steve and Alex are starting point but not really the ending point. Confirmed by Developers. And/or if Steve and the Player emerge then Steve (Player) is the name rather than Steve as a character since he's an avatar in the Overworld by default an indication of Survival mode Player, and by the way "invisible skin" or Realistic Player in the Overworld don't exist in the Minecraft universe... if you caught my reference/logic. The Player (End Poem) is pretty much transcended version of Steve (Player). Steve (Movie) is eventual though

bump. Someone still needs to unlock Steve's page to correct 'offense' to 'defense'.

@David

Command blocks are pretty much a creative mode/cheats exclusive. Their existence doesn't prove that creative mode is canon.

Just because it's from Mojang doesn't mean everything from it is canon. In the creative mode books, they'd just talk about the stuff you can do in creative mode, its not referring to the (loose) canon/lore of the game.

I don't think the rest of that was relevant tbh

GyroNutz said:

@David
Command blocks are pretty much a creative mode/cheats exclusive. Their existence doesn't prove that creative mode is canon.

Just because it's from Mojang doesn't mean everything from it is canon. In the creative mode books, they'd just talk about the stuff you can do in creative mode, its not referring to the (loose) canon/lore of the game.

I don't think the rest of that was relevant tbh

Click to expand...

Well like I've stated before, Creative mode doesn't break any cano rules on this wiki, nor does it fit in the description of game mechanics. Just because it isn't survival mode doesn't mean it's noncanon or game mechanics, so unless you want to make a Content Revision thread on either or both of the two, Creative mode is still a canon part of the game, as nothing but assumptions say otherwise.

It's a cheat mode. By default a cheat mode is game mechanics until proven otherwise. And it wasn't proven otherwise. Simple.

But why is it considered a cheat mode though?

Because of the command blocks?

Bedrock has the same blast resistance as command blocks and they still get destroyed in creative mode. One doesn't even need to summon a command block and break it to be considered moon level.

I don't see how creative mode on a sandbox game is a cheat mode.

Creative Mode in a survival sandbox game is definitively a cheat mode. It allows you to cheat. It bypass the game's normal rules to allow more control over the game.

Also, we don't accept the value of explosions not used in survival mode for durability, so Steve without commands wouldn't be 5-C.

@GyroNutz I think you missed my point, my argument is an opposition to what "because it's a cheat so it's non-canon I believed" casually, and you ignored @Deathstroke points.

"Cheat" is just considered a "cheat" in survival mode but not in Creative mode. I don't think you understand what's behind the operator mode. Implying creative mode isn't official is the same as you think denying the game as a sandbox game. We don't talk about survival and creative modes are the same person. It's their "required lore to be in canon" doesn't make sense to a complete sandbox game, limiting only on survival mode doesn't make it as sandbox game. Also "cheat" DOES existed in Minecraft for reasons, it's not exclusive to survival mode if Player wants to in the beginning by creating new world, and the character IS a PLAYER it's not limited on Survival only, and Command Block existing as functional block that manipulate reality instructed by the Player, it manipulates reality the Player didn't do it, this is entirely different than what other games does, and the Operator mode is a global variable which allows them to use commands, and the same as Difficulty it is a global variable that manipulate the existence of hostile mobs, and the first of all "Difficulty" is considered a canon in vsbattle.

"Just because it's from Mojang doesn't mean everything from it is canon."

I didn't said, everything from Mojang books are canon but your argument sounds like you don't believe the books from Mojang are "official". Don't make me look like I'm the wrong here. Guide-type books isn't about lore, it's the same as what achievements/advancements does. But guide is just a guide it's very different from tracking the Player does in survival mode. Achievements/Advancements are tracking the Player's progress. Achievements/Advancements plays the important part in the lore of the game because of tracking Player's progression.

In the End Poem implies that the Player thinks that reality is just a dream because they thought so little in their reality, and the Player is a PLAYER OF GAMES, and Player's reality isn't a dream nor lower manifestation. People are so denial on this simple fact.

"Their existence doesn't prove that creative mode is canon."

No, Command Blocks are canonically does exist in the game you're just denial to the fact you support "survival only" is canon, and "Command blocks are pretty much a creative mode/cheats exclusive." doesn't covered my previous arguments because Command Blocks could be access through Creative Mode/commands only, and did you just say "cheats exclusive" this proves you only believe in "survival mode/lore only is canon", and just like I said Cheat mode's specifically an Operator mode, it's part of the global variables/commands not just "create new world" only. There's another fact that I heard peoples opinions are oppose with your logic because Minecraft doesn't have a narrative or visuals, no description of which things are really happening.

If End Poem lore applied, the Player should normally has access to the entire Minecraft game, not limited to survival mode. Also the Player profile implied it can manipulate "real world" anything at will because it's Player's dream, but couldn't manipulate the game because it's lower manifestation doesn't make any sense. The Player can't reality warp the game but can reality warp the "real world" at will doesn't make any sense. Creative mode is the only way to manipulate the game.

PS. I don't mean the "real world" as in our world, it's Minecraft's "real world". I'm tired of people keeps bugging me by "correcting" me that the "real world" in the End Poem isn't combat applicable by vsbattle rules, because it's fourth wall/breaks the fourth wall or anything "fourth wall" is not combat applicable which misunderstands it as reality warping on the Minecraft's "real world" is not canon. I don't directly said our "real world" could be affected by the Player (Minecraft). In the End Poem there's a lines that implies the "real world", and fourth wall is just reference, everything I said about fourth walls from my previous comments were just reference.

Can you not give me an entire wall of text? I'm 100% sure you can trim this down.

oops sorry for my comment delete...

Edit: it's not for you, it's for @GyroNutz

Saikou The Lewd King said:

Creative Mode in a survival sandbox game is definitively a cheat mode. It allows you to cheat. It bypass the game's normal rules to allow more control over the game.
Also, we don't accept the value of explosions not used in survival mode for durability, so Steve without commands wouldn't be 5-C.

Click to expand...

There are no 'rules' in minecraft to begin with. That's the point of sandbox games, to create.

And I don't know what you mean by your second response, since it doesn't seem to make sense at all. No explosion in survival mode minecraft will grant you town level, but that's exxactly what was used to calc the wither to town level, and it's the exact same reason why the command block page is "at least moon level" to begin with. So explosions not in survival mode are noncanon too?

DeathstroketheHedgehog said:

No explosion in survival mode minecraft will grant you town level

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Well the explosion is based on blast radius (IRL scaling) they actually ignores the "cube explosion" so it shouldn't be counted because it's inconsistent to the game. Explosions works differently in Minecraft. The number of destroyed blocks are the only indication of AP of the cube explosion because "rays" destroys everything on their path, blocks with lower blast resistance decreases rays power.


The Command Block's dura is currently a 5-C because it's based on blast resistance gamemechanics with blast radius (IRL scaling).

With sufficient amount of blocks blocking the path of the explosion, the ray effect doesn't happen. I know, as I've tried a little test myself with blowing up obsidian in a superflat world.


The person who calced the level of the Wither did the same thing as me, and in both scenarios, we count the amount of blocks destroyed to determine the power of the explosion, not the size of the explosion itself.

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I chatted @Saik about creative mode... I guess I'd retreat arguing over creative mode. *shrug* ┬»\(´¥ƒ•´¥ƒ/┬»

@DeathstroketheHedgehog Bedrock's dura would be High 3-A, possibly 5-C.

Breaking Minecraft Bedrock...The FINAL Answer! you can watch this video for more in depth information, this video proves blast resistances are gamechanics to all blocks with ∞ hardness.

The growing tree in Minecraft is High 3-A via Minecraft logic xD

Isn't it counterproductive to be High Universal, possibly Moon Level?


Also, that video doesn't really prove anything, as it doesn't even do anything about blast resistance to begin with, it goes on about hardness value, the coding for mining blocks, not blowing up blocks. Those are two entirely different sets of codes. One decides how long it takes to mine a block, the other decides the explosive power needed to destroy said block.

https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Module:Hardness_values

https://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Module:Blast_resistance_values


I don't even know what the 'growing tree' is in Minecraft, but if you used this logic to claim that it's High 3-A, then you're wrong.

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DeathstroketheHedgehog said:

Isn't it counterproductive to be High Universal, possibly Moon Level?

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1. Yes. 5-C is gamemechanic + creative mode.

Also, that video doesn't really prove anything, as it doesn't even do anything about blast resistance to begin with, it goes on about hardness value, the coding for mining blocks, not blowing up blocks. Those are two entirely different sets of codes. One decides how long it takes to mine a block, the other decides the explosive power needed to destroy said block.
2. Saying "that video doesn't really prove anything" then you mean "that video's irrelevant"? No, that's not entirely true. It's not "doesn't prove anything" because it proves "bedrock can't be destroyed in survival mode", and the finite blast resistance with infinite hardness from the game to IRL logic are fallacious logic.

3. If we count bedrock's code as "canon" it'd be Invulnerability with 5-C dura, it's already considered as fallacious claim.

4. Minecraft's code to IRL logic would be all the damage the bedrock/commandblock takes would return to zero, 5-C explosion is just a physical damage wouldn't even left a mark of Bedrock/Command Block in the game.

5. First of all Jesse destroys the command block via mining (not explosion), and enchantment pickaxe are made from survival (this contradicts the original game) and the command block would never ever be same as command block from the game. Story mode have a lot of contradiction to the game in comparison though.

6. And the fact those blocks were never meant to be destroyed.

7. And I know those codes are entirely different from each other. The point is that blast resistance contradicts hardness, all blocks have finite blast resistance with infinite hardness were gamemechanics. It'd contradict their purpose in the game, including the barrier block, it's gamemechanic, so I'm heavily disagree with scaling it to blast resistance.

8. Also The profile of the Command Block's dura is based on "not in survival mode", and I'm sure @Saikou said "we don't accept the value of explosions not used in survival mode for durability". R I P story mode command block dura.

I don't even know what the 'growing tree' is in Minecraft, but if you used this logic to claim that it's High 3-A, then you're wrong.

9. It has nothing to do with my logic. It's called a "joke", but I'm not completely wrong though, but I don't know if they're still relevant these days if that tricks were still working on survival mode, so I've no clue. I've watched Minecraft videos for so long I could remember what those players did to breakthrough bedrocks upward in the Nether dimension.

Davidliteral said:

DeathstroketheHedgehog said:

Isn't it counterproductive to be High Universal, possibly Moon Level?

Click to expand...

1. Yes. 5-C is gamemechanic + creative mode.

Click to expand...

What? also, that doesn't answer my point at all. How are you High Universal confirmed, but only 'possibly' moon level? That's what I'm talking about, your rating is backwards and counterproductive.


2. Saying "that video doesn't really prove anything" then you mean "that video's irrelevant"? No, that's not entirely true. It's not "doesn't prove anything" because it proves "bedrock can't be destroyed in survival mode", and the finite blast resistance with infinite hardness from the game to IRL logic are fallacious logic.
3. If we count bedrock's code as "canon" it'd be Invulnerability with 5-C dura, it's already considered as fallacious claim.

4. Minecraft's code to IRL logic would be all the damage the bedrock/commandblock takes would return to zero, 5-C explosion is just a physical damage wouldn't even left a mark of Bedrock/Command Block in the game.

You're confusing blast resistance value for hardness value agai. I even gave you the links to report the difference. You can't treat them as one and the same.

You used AntVenom as a source video for your argument, so apparently you think of him as a reliable resource. Well here's another video from Antvenom explaining what blast resistance is. Your posted video is hardness value, not blast resistance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6C4TmqKChG0

If we weren't using blast resistance and we were using hardness value only, which is what you are claiming, then destroying a block of obsidian would only be rated at least Small Building Level because even early game steve could break obsidian, given a few minutes. Now you need to go and create a massive revision thread to downgrade the minecraft verse to Large Building Level at best (minus the cosmic characters) because you try to use game mechanics (hardness) to debunk "game mechanics" (blast resistance).

If you really believe what you are saying, make a thread to update the game mechanics page, because what you're trying to claim about blast resistance doesn't fit this wiki's description of game mechanics at all .

5. First of all Jesse destroys the command block via mining (not explosion), and enchantment pickaxe are made from survival (this contradicts the original game) and the command block would never ever be same as command block from the game. Story mode have a lot of contradiction to the game in comparison though.
6. And the fact those blocks were never meant to be destroyed.
But I'm not talking about Minecraft Story mode... that's a completely different game, and since apparently it's noncanon to the original minecraft game, you definitely shouldn't be bringing it up here. I don't even play that game, so I wouldn't even try to argue for Story Mode.

In the actual minecraft game, in creative mode, bedrock and end portal frames can be placed and destroyed willingly. I don't know why you guys keep bringing up 'it can't be done in survival mode' to disprove a key for 'creative mode'.

7. And I know those codes are entirely different from each other. The point is that blast resistance contradicts hardness, all blocks have finite blast resistance with infinite hardness were gamemechanics. It'd contradict their purpose in the game, including the barrier block, it's gamemechanic, so I'm heavily disagree with scaling it to blast resistance.

If you agree that they are entirely different and separate coding, why are you acting like they are intertwined? They are not intertwined coding at all. The point is that it is contradicted because not blast resistance, but HARDNESS Value is the one with game mechanics.

8. Also The profile of the Command Block's dura is based on "not in survival mode", and I'm sure @Saikou said "we don't accept the value of explosions not used in survival mode for durability". R I P story mode command block dura.

Also rip obsidian dura because obsidian was literally calced to be town level because of blast resistance. No explosion in survival mode alone can generate town level force, but guess what? This was allowed for obsidian.

9. It has nothing to do with my logic. It's called a "joke", but I'm not completely wrong though, but I don't know if they're still relevant these days if that tricks were still working on survival mode, so I've no clue. I've watched Minecraft videos for so long I could remember what those players did to breakthrough bedrocks upward in the Nether dimension.

That response doesn't tell me anything, especially when you still failed to tell me what the 'growing tree' is to begin with.