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DIO has his Phantom Blood abilities (Criticism)

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Introduction:

In response to the notion that DIO has regained all of his vampiric abilities during the events of Stardust Crusaders, once he drained the blood of Joseph Joestar, there's an indication why it's logically fallacious and strictly inaccurate to postulate DIO's capacity to access every single ability he has previously demonstrated. Naturally, inductive reasoning has been criticized for generalizing about the properties of a class of objects based on some number of observations of particular instances of that class or presupposing that a sequence of events in the future will occur as it always has in the past. Karl Popper, a philosopher of science, sought to solve the problem of induction. Knowledge is created by conjecture and criticism which the main role of observations and experiments in science, he argued, is in attempts to criticize and refute existing theories. Henceforth, the misconception of DIO regaining all of his undead assets shall be critically evaluated.

Arguments:

"Notes: It is a common misconception that DIO has lost all of his vampire abilities since his Phantom Blood incarnation. This is only partly true. While certain attacks such as his Vaporizing Freeze have been stated to stem from complete control of his body (which he did not have for the majority of Stardust Crusaders), there is nothing implying that he cannot use his Space Ripper Stingy Eyes or other moves he had previously demonstrated. However, using this line of logic, once DIO had drained the blood of Joseph, he himself had stated that his body was the strongest it has ever been, logically implying he once again has access to every single ability he has ever demonstrated." and (Thread:1957744)

Part 1: Shifting of the Burden of Proof


Per the traditional aphorism, "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." The Argument from ignorance asserts that a proposition is true because it has not yet been proven false or a proposition is false because it has not yet been proven true. Seemingly, "there is nothing implying that he cannot use his Space Ripper Stingy Eyes or other moves he had previously demonstrated", although there is nothing implying that he ca use his previously demonstrated abilities either (within the course of Part 3). Positive evidence of this kind is distinct from a lack of evidence or ignorance of that which should have been found already, had it existed. This represents a type of false dichotomy in that it excludes a third optio, which is that there may have been an insufficient investigation, and therefore there is insufficient information to prove the proposition be either true or false. Nor does it allow the admission that the choices may in fact not be two (true or false), but may be as many as four,

  1. true

    • false
    • unknown between true or false
    • being unknowable (among the first three).
In common discourses, argumentum ad ignorantiam are sometimes used in an attempt to shift the burden of proof. The burden of proof typically lies with the person making the claim, but it can also lie with the person denying a well-established fact or theory. Carl Sagan proposed a related criterion, the Sagan standard, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." If DIO, after draining Joseph Joestar's blood, is capable of incorporating his SRS eyes and his Vaporizing Freeze technique in battle, then why hasn't he prominently exercised these abilities during his clash between Jotaro? There is no empirical evidence supporting his usage, thus we can't assume he has access to every single ability since it's unfalsifiable.

Part 2: Quoting Out of Context (Ambiguity and Equivocation)

To quote out of context is to remove a passage from its surrounding matter in such a way as to distort its meaning. The context in which a passage occurs always contributes to its meaning, and the shorter the passage the larger the contribution. The fallacy of quoting out of context is committed when a contextomy is offered as evidence in an argument:

  • "I am unaware of where this misconception comes from, though I do have a guess. I believe some people take his interaction with Hol Horse as some sort of proof that he is physically weaker. While yes, DIO did admit that his body was weaker than before, there is nothing to suggest that being weaker prevents him from using his vampire abilities. Furthermore, DIO himself states that once he drained Joseph's blood, his body has been the strongest it has ever been. If we take the previous logic as true, that being weak somehow prevents him from using vampire abilities, then we almost must take the reverse true, that being stronger than ever before allows him to use his vampire abilities."
The proposed justification for this assertion is that "some people take his interaction with Hol Horse as some sort of proof that he is physically weaker… that being weak somehow prevents him from using vampire abilities" (more on this in Segment 3 & 4) while Dio also claimed "certain attacks such as his Vaporizing Freeze have been stated to stem from complete control of his body" (more on this in Segment 4); therefore "being stronger than ever before allows him to use his vampire abilities." There is no vindication that "being stronger than ever" stems to "complete control of his body" as the term "stronger" can also suggest being vigorous and powerful (Ambiguity Fallacy). The context of DIO's monologue specified that the "Joestar's blood is making this body stronger than ever before", he has power to spare, and he can continue to stop time which barely indicates regaining all of his vampiric abilities. Likewise, the stability of the argument only holds "if we take the previous logic as true" as the hypothetical conclusion would only follow if the premise is validated. Either "there is nothing to suggest that being weaker prevents him from using his vampire abilities" or "we take the previous logic as true, that being weak somehow prevents him from using vampire abilities". Ultimately, leading to the burden of proof and a potential false premise.

Part 3: DIO's Wound and The World

In 1983, DIO resurfaces one century later in Part III: Stardust Crusaders, managing to become accustomed to Jonathan's body while awaking the ability to use a Stand. Unlike every other Stand User, DIO has sought to improve his Stand's capabilities. He notably wanted to drain the blood of a Joestar and sync himself with Jonathan's body to further improve his time stop ability. Nonetheless, once he drained the blood of Joseph Joestar, DIO still had the potential to enhance his time stopping capabilities. Because of his immortality, the duration of stopped time increases as DIO becomes more accustomed to The World (1, 2) and the scar around his neck heals (1, 2), reaching a maximum of nine seconds towards the end of Part 3. However, had he not died, the period during for which DIO could have stopped time would have continued to grow and he would've grown more accustomed to his body and his stand. The context of the scene between DIO and Hol Horse is that DIO "haven't completely adjusted to his body," and not because his "body was weaker than before".

Part 4: Jonathan's Body (Fire and Ice)

Becoming a Vampire as a young adult, Dio displays a broad range of intriguing, supernatural abilities; explained as expressions of the full, unbound potential of the human body. Nevertheless, in polar opposition to the energy exerted by Vampires, Zombies and the Pillar Men, Hamon is an energy manifesting as ripples throughout the user's body and is identical to the energy of the Su. As the two sources of power are opposites of each other, this debilitates DIO from using such techniques, like his Freezing ability, being that Jonathan's body still has hamon in his blood. Significantly, due to how both Straizo (a vampire) and Dire (decapitated) are capable of producing Hamon despite their current condition as energy is created in their bloodstream. Although, DIO's vitality is maintained by consuming human beings (or their blood) as his is body sustained by sheer willpower alone, rather than vital energy.A sufficiently powerful force of vitality - specifically sunlight or the Ripple - will negate the sustaining force's presence and disintegrate the long-unliving body. Once DIO drained the blood of Joseph Joestar, he has further hindered his own bodily control due to how Joseph Joestar is occupying Hamon in his blood (negating his Vaporization Freezing Technique). To further elaborate, DIO's semi-precognitive abilities that seemed to have resulted from a Hermit Purple-like Stand awoke in the body of Jonathan Joestar.

In each Kanzenba (volume) of JoJonium, there is a section in the back of the book containing an interview with Hirohiko Araki discussing the character featured on the cover. These interviews act as small biographies outlining the creation process of said character and Araki's thoughts at the time. In Volume 9 (Joseph Joestar), Araki stated:

Essentially, Jonathan's undead body still has Hamon in his bloodstream since DIO possesses a Hermit Purple-like Stand (Jonathan's Stand) and how he drained the blood of a Hamon User to further assimilate with Jonathan's body - DIO cannot conduct neither Fire nor Ice.

Part 5: Hasty Generalization Fallacy (The Problem of Induction)


A faulty generalizatio is a conclusion about all or many instances of a phenomenon that has been reached on the basis of just one or just a few instances of that phenomenon. It is an example of jumping to conclusions. For example, we may generalize about all people, or all members of a group, based on what we know about just one or just a few people:

  • "Fuurthermore, DIO actually DOES use his vampire abilities, several times actually. He uses his super-hearing to see if Jotaro's heart is beating from a distance.He uses his vampiric Regenerationn to recover from shattered legs in mere seconds. He creates biological flesh buds to brainwash his opponents. People just don't see him use his "exciting" abilities and therefore he doesn't have it? Its just cherry picking at this point, he either DOES have vampire abilities or he DOESN'T. He is a vampire or he isn't."
A Hasty generalizatio is an informal fallacy of faulty generalization by reaching an inductive generalizatio based on insufficient evidenceessentially making a rushed conclusion without considering all of the variables. In statistics, it may involve basing broad conclusions regarding the statistics of a survey from a small sample group that fails to sufficiently represent an entire populatio. "Its just cherry picking at this point, he either DOES have vampire abilities or he DOESN'T" as Vanilla Ice, Nukesaku, Wired Beck, Straizo, and a Vagrant should not have biological flesh buds, similar vampiric Regenerationn, and the Vaporization Freezing Technique just because they're simply Vampires. It's as fallacious as claiming Straizo can utilize the Vaporization Freeze technique just because he grasped an understanding on Dio's SRS eyes. Therefore, Straizo, Vanilla Ice, Nukesaku, Wired Beck, and a Vagrant are capable of using Dio's Vaporization Freeze, nevermore did these characters have ever attempted. Not all Vampires are like Dio as it's simply a faulty generalizatio. Similar to how not all Pillar Men are like Kars.

This also goes by a False Dichotomy due to "either DOES have vampire abilities or he DOESN'T. He is a vampire or he isn't." This is not cherry picking as DIO hasn't barely demonstrated all of his vampiric abilities within the course of Part 3.

Scaling from Straizo: (Speed-wise)


It's a hasty generalizatio to scale Dio with Straizo as Dio's Regenerationn speed does not match Straizo in the slightest. Just because they're vampires does not mean that they represent vampirism as a whole (JoJo-wise). Straizo is capable of pulling himself together from being blown to several pieces by Joseph's hand grenades at a quick pace without the need of having to drain the blood of a person first (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6). Despite Dio's Regenerationn speed, he is significantly weakened/burnt after his first encounter with Jonathan (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ) and still bears a scar during his next encounter. Straizo's Regenerationn speed is notably much quicker and more efficient whereas Dio requires blood to regenerate accordingly (1, 2). He elaborates on how "if the pillar had not collapsed and broken the statue..." he could have potentially died. Although, this may only imply to his Part I: Phantom Blood incarnation while DIO from Part III: Stardust Crusaders, once he drained the blood of Joseph Joestar, Regenerationn facilitated without the need for blood. Theoretically, this may be the result of Jonathan's undead body still having Hamon in his bloodstream (similar to Straizo) and how he drained the blood of a Hamon User which further enhances his healing process (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7).

Conclusion:

The justification of DIO retaining his Phantom Blood abilities is entirely fallacious. Logical fallacies and a variety of inaccuracies are committed which would be redundant if the only line of reasoning is "It was never stated that DIO had lost his vampiric abilities!"

TL:DR - I don't agree he has access to every single ability due to faulty reasoning. The only instance DIO used his SRS eyes was in the video game Adaptation (which is non-canon).
 
I agree with removing the Part I abilities of High DIO, but if this implies that his regen in Part I should be removed then I disagree with that. Dio's own regen feat in his profile is just to showcase that the has demonstrated to have it.
 
Regen was simply an added bonus, although I'm interested to witness Part 1 Dio's prominent regen feats.
 
Good grief. I wish I had gotten this critique in the actual thread, but better late than never.

That being said, from a quick skim through this is just nitpicking some logical fallacies that I have unintentionally used during the revision, which is fair and cool, I'm not perfect.

I still believe the conclusion you have reached to be incorrect and a gross incomplete summary of the actual substance behind my arguments.

I will now attempt to re-post my arguments in a better, more clear manner that will hopefully put this critique to rest, give me some time to respond. Thanks @Dargoo for bringing this my attention.
 
i only know about regen that should stay and be fine but the rest seems fine tbh but i'll see how professor says it all
 
SolidEye234 said:
Dargoo Faust said:
"Although, this may only imply to his Part I: Phantom Blood incarnation while DIO from Part III: Stardust Crusaders, once he drained the blood of Joseph Joestar, was shown regenerating without the need for blood. "
I wasn't referring to his Part III incarnation.
One of the first things he does in PB is regen from being riddled from bullet wounds to the head and every other part of his body, lol.
 
[B]Dargoo Faust said:
[/B]One of the first things he does in PB is regen from being riddled from bullet wounds to the head and every other part of his body, lol.
I'm well-informed that JoJo Vampires can regenerate. The only difference here is that " Straizo's Regenerationn is notably much quicker and more efficient whereas Dio requires blood to regenerate accordingly."

Nonetheless, Dio still bear wounds upon his second encounter with Jonathan.
 
Eficiente said:
Then I ask you, why is Straizo's regen that much superior to Dio's and how would he had wounds with the regen he demonstrated in Part I.
"Straizo is capable of pulling himself together from being blown to several pieces by Joseph's hand grenades at a quick pace without the need of having to drain the blood of a person first (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)." An ordinary vampire needs to drain blood to survive whereas Straizo has hamon in his bloodstream which enchances his regneratio .

Part 1 Dio did not have hamon in his body. Nevertheless, "he is significantly weakened/burnt after his first encounter with Jonathan (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 ) and still bears a scar during his next encounter."

Theoretically, Part III's Regenerationn may be the result of Jonathan's undead body still having Hamon in his bloodstream (similar to Straizo) and how he drained the blood of a Hamon User which further enhances his healing process (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7).
 
Straizo having hamon in his bloodstream KILLS him, it does not bolster his Regenerationn.

We know this because he literally uses hamon breathing to kill himself, dude.

Why would the same energy from the sun that kills them on contact increase their regenerative capabilities when its in their bloodstream?
 
@SolidEye Well that seems like a headcanon. This little mistake (Dio's wounds) should not prevent the scaling of the regen.
 
ProfessorLord said:
Straizo having hamon in his bloodstream KILLS him, it does not bolster his Regenerationn.
We know this because he literally uses hamon breathing to kill himself, dude.
DIO has Jonathan's stand, which Araki significantly stated that:

"Essentially, Jonathan's undead body still has Hamon in his bloodstream since DIO possesses a Hermit Purple-like Stand (Jonathan's Stand)."

Hamon is also in the bloodstream. (1 , 2 )
 
Eficiente said:
@SolidEye Well that seems like a headcanon. This little mistake (Dio's wounds) should not prevent the scaling of the regen.
Can you explain to me why it's a headcannon?
 
Hermit Purple is ripple personified. It is not actively charged with hamon 24/7, otherwise DIO would have been very badly injured when he was entangled with it by Joseph Joestar.

We see Joseph have to explicilty yell "HERMIT PURPLE... AND HAMON!" when using it against DIO... though he just breaks out of it before it can travel through Hermit Purple.
 
ProfessorLord said:
Hermit Purple is ripple personified. It is not actively charged with hamon 24/7, otherwise DIO would have been very badly injured when he was entangled with it by Joseph Joestar.
We see Joseph have to explicilty yell "HERMIT PURPLE... AND HAMON!" when using it against DIO... though he just breaks out of it before it can travel through Hermit Purple.
So basically, Statements over Feats...

Araki have stated that Hermit Purple is the ripple.
 
DIO has referred to the energy of the sun as "hamon" nearly every time he brings it up. He has said it many times in Phantom Blood, and he mentions Joseph using "hamon".

That second scan of him saying "Jonathan's energy" should not imply hamon since he has referenced it as hamon every single time up until that point. I am inclined to just say that he meant the litteral energy from his body, that every organism has.\
 
No, not statements over feats. Joseph using Hermit Purple on DIO and it not burning him alive or harming him is explicit proof of Hermit Purple not being actively charged with hamon 24/7.

Then there is a statement of him implying he has to use them TOGETHER, and that they normally are separate abilities from one another.
 
Eficiente said:
@SolidEye Nothing implies Hamon improving the regen of a vampire.
An ordinary vampire needs to drain blood to survive as Zepelli stated "they are like back and front! The same energy!"

Nevertheless, Zepelli also state, "If he's attacked by a larger wave of hamon energy, he will be crushed! "
 
It should also be noticed that High-Mid regen is weird, characters with that regen may still die from decapitation/brain damage or come back from being blown into pieces but not heal much beyond that.
 
Zeppeli also said that hamon cannot be used for destructive purposes.

Then he proceeds to hit a frog and smash a boulder using hamon. One part later, Caesar uses it to put down his best friend. Pretty destructive to me.

Chalk it up to Araki forgetting.
 
ProfessorLord said:
No, not statements over feats. Joseph using Hermit Purple on DIO and it not burning him alive or harming him is explicit proof of Hermit Purple not being actively charged with hamon 24/7.
Then there is a statement of him implying he has to use them TOGETHER, and that they normally are separate abilities from one another.
Nevertheless, Zepelli also state, "If he's attacked by a larger wave of hamon energy, he will be crushed! "

I've never claimed that DIO was immuned to hamon.

Also, Araki's note.
 
ProfessorLord said:
DIO has referred to the energy of the sun as "hamon" nearly every time he brings it up. He has said it many times in Phantom Blood, and he mentions Joseph using "hamon".
That second scan of him saying "Jonathan's energy" should not imply hamon since he has referenced it as hamon every single time up until that point. I am inclined to just say that he meant the litteral energy from his body, that every organism has.\
You've ignored how hamon is stored in the bloodstream .
 
I vaguely remember Araki either directly saying DIO simply was too cocky to use his vampiric abilities or lacked them because of Jonathan's body.

Either result, even if we don't remove the abilities from the page it should be at least he would never actually use them in character.

Though all in all, this does seem like a hasty generalization to say he has all the powers.
 
Also, Straitzo does this without taking any blood in:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-5gUh5MkRQ

You can assume Dio's regen is weaker all you want, but there is no implication that Straizo is any weaker/stronger than him. Straitzo even explicitly mentions that Dio played/developed his powers more. Doesn't look like he's using Hamon either.

Blood enhances the regen; it doesn't cause it.
 
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